tictac

I have an MY03 STI that I am about to order PPP for (yes it has to be PPP I want a waranty)I am starting to pick up on rumoured PPP power increases over the quoted Prodrive 305PS. There is a thread elsewhere talking about version 3 now being out and as part of continuous development it has more power than version 2 and 1. Didn't even know about version 2!! Anyone? I don't want to splash out £2K and then find out the next day that there was another 30BHP available for the same money! This is rumoured to be coming from dealers. Anyone with Prodrives e-mail address I would ask them if I could find it?

FLAT ERIC

iTrader: (1)

You could try this off their web site.

For EU export enquiries, please contact nwadeson@prodrive.com

Mark

phil_r24

tictac I'd heard a very similar rumour, but have been unable to confirm anything. So I'd be very interested if you get any further info on the matter.

ARM-Scooby

me too

New To Scoob

I'll be keeping an eye on this aswell, surely Prodrive will launch a PPP 320 considering the WR1 has that power.

John.

KJ

Great! just splashed out for the PPP & Springs for my ST8. Wonder if there will be an option to upgrade the existing PPP without spending another 2K. Probably released because of the new EVO FQ330!

ARM-Scooby

i hope there will be something out there to help it get a bit more, especially when the likes of TSL are offering 333bhp

WRX_BLUES

I have just rung Banbury HQ and someone is going to ring Mike Wood and find out. I am also very concerned as my PPP is supposed to be arriving next week. I shall keep you all posted.

p1doc

i have an sti8 03 model recently dynoed at 295bhp
whilst at a subaru garage getting my geometry done i took out their sti8 demo-faster and more responsive than mine!! i had a chat to the dealer who told me this was the new version ~320bhp,rang prodrive and mike wood said there was no change in ppp spec and my ecu might beefit from an ecu reset!!
and 6 weeks later the wr1 edition comes out wth 320bhp!!
martin

WRX_BLUES

It's true!!!

Just had a response from Sue at Prodrive who has spoken to Mike Wood. Apparently they are working on a new PPP for the MY04 model. It is going to be at least 6 months before it is released. Sue wasn't sure if it was going to be compatible with MY03 STIs or not as there is something different with the MY04 model. Does anyone know what this is? As far as I knew it was the same. Anyway...she's given me Mike's number and I will find out from him on Monday when he is back from Autosport. Perhaps someone could ask him if they are going to the show. They are also unsure whether there will be a possibility of upgrading exisiting PPPs.

marklemac

I emailed Prodrive 2 weeks ago about this, saying that my STi7 has not performed well on a dyno (290 summer, 285 in winter), and asked them about the new PPP 320bhp version.

Asked them if there will be an upgrade (payable) or can I talk to my dealer about it not performing and getting an ECU swap out.

So far, no response.

I think is would be wrong of them not to offer an upgrade considering that the ECU's are all Ecutek at the end of the day and its only a map going on to it.

Surely this is an excellent opportunity for them to rake in quite a lot of money from exisiting owners of PPP.

WRX_BLUES

I'd be very disappointed if they even charged for this upgrade considering all they do is put a standard map onto an ECU and swap it with your existing one. Unless of course they are going to change other components.

CupraT

Should not be a charge IMO if it is just a revised software change - tuners such as REVO for the VAG engines would do this free of charge.

Is the change just for the STi or is the WRX affected as well?

WRX_BLUES

As far as I know this is just for the STI.

chiark

Bear in mind that "other tuners" do not have to worry about warranty to the same degree as Prodrive.

You bought the PPP with a certain output. Prodrive's R&D may have decided that more can safely be extracted from the 04 than could be obtained from the 03, hence can offer more power for this MY. They also may have felt that the market demanded more - EVO FQ330 is now available, as opposed to the FQ300?

To expect an upgrade free is living in cloud cuckoo land, as you don't just go around changing maps on proven cars that you are backing the warranty up on. You've paid the money, got the product, and have support on the product. It's a packaged product, not an individual mapping for your car.

It could be worse, you could have bought a bugeye (JOKE!)

Cheers,
Nick.

Scooby

Have to disagree with you there, I had a PPP fitted 3 weeks ago and had to wait a good few weeks before the dealer got it.

Now if they are planning an upgrade and these things probably are in the devel;opment stage for a reasonable amount of time, then at the very least customers should be advised of the impending change in specification, so that they the customer can choose which spec of ECU upgrade is fitted. Seeing as they haven't done this and in order to keep their customers 'happy', as a token of goodwill I would suggest that IM / Prodrive invite customers who have had the PPP fitted in say the last 2-3 months, the option of having the revised spec ECU fitted if they so wish!

Otherwise they'll have customer's like me who have been loyal since 1996, getting a serious case of the Subaru blues (no pun intended) and thinking twice about pushing any further money their way again.

DrEvil

Have to agree with Chairk on this, you can't expect them to release details 6 months prior!

Would you expect the same of Subaru or any other car manufacturer?
It would mean six months of no sales of the current product.... wouldn't it?

chiark

Scooby, it seems that this will only be applied to the 04 MY, not the 03... It's a different car. I don't know what they may have changed to allow them to get the power out, but they may have changed something significant?

I do fully understand your frustration and I daresay I would be slightly miffed, but this happens in every new product release... Someone will always feel aggrieved. Admittedly, after parting with 27k then I would be livid, but I think it may have to go down as "just one of those things".

WRX_BLUES

I do agree that you shouldn't get anything for free in terms of upgrades i.e. postage and packaging and admin, but I don't think you should have to pay again for a product you already have that isn't a significant change. Fair enough if they charge say £50-£100.

I do also agree with the fact that they would be stupid to release this information publicly 6 months in advance during development, but I in contrast to this I do know about it yet I am still willing to pay for the current package.

BTW I did buy a bug-eye but then sold it 8 months later for a STI8

mutant_matt

At a guess, AFAIK, the 02, 03 and 04 STi engines and ECUs are the same and so I am guessing that the 04 PPP for the WR1 (and possibly the 04 PPP generally) is just a different set of maps which get more out of the car (and presumably eat into the safety margin a little more).

It always sucks when you buy the last of the "old" generation only find a newer and better product out next week but mostly, you get nothing back and it's hard luck. Subaru have been particularly good at doing this to people though (P1 500/1000 fiasco, UK300PPP/STi etc.). It is the way of the world!

Matt

P.S. Mike, fancy shooting me down in flames?

Dazza's-STi

I can't see as thiers any difference on the MY04 in terms of the engine, I've not heard of any changes proposed to the STI lump. Its quite possible to take yr standard EVO VIII and have the 330 tune done, why would they limit it on the STI. if they only released it for this years, they would effectivly stay level in terms of profit. Releaseing to the MY03 would regain $$$ more effectivly, however it certainly won't be free gratis as Chairk says. The EVO 330 upgrade is a £1500 jump even from the FQ300
Extract Taken from fastsaloons.com ... a decent set of chaps if you've not looked at thier site!
"1. A supplementary ECU is hard-wired to the cars existing engine management system, the unit controlling ignition timing and air/fuel mixture.

2. A revised waste-gate actuator ferrule is installed, which increases turbo-charger boost to 1.4 bar at peak pressure, which falls well within accepted engine and turbocharger tolerances.

Both of these modifications can also be carried out by Mitsubishi Ralliart dealers, allowing existing FQ300 customers to upgrade without having to buy a new car. All FQ300 owners can upgrade and have the extra 30bhp for £1500 (incl VAT) + fitting charge . Ralliart dealerships can fit the upgrade in just two hours."

Was thier a change in the engine spec, between the STI bug and the MY03? I thought so!

I'd be interested in a 330 but not 20bhp upgrade on my existing PPP MY03, but wouldn't be happy shelling out the full money again, as most of the the original £2k was for the dealer fit time and CAT\Fuel pump exchange. This shouldn't be required for another 30bhp, so hopefully it will be a ECU swap and at sencible $$$

Dazza

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You lot may as well sit there and complain that you bought an STi7 and then the STi8 came out.... such pettyness IMO
At the time you purchased something, it was the only product available, and it still is the only product available as there is no official confirmation by Subaru UK that there will be a 320ps PPP released (a 15ps increase and not 20-30bhp). If you really think that 15ps is going to make that much difference, go add some octane booster to your fuel, it should improve things by a good 10ps, and as for going off dyno figures.... oh come off it peeps we all know that your not getting proper airflow over your intercooler on a dyno (unless someone is holding it right over the engine....
You paid for your package that was (and still is) available to you, stop whinging

Tony

wakeboardar

and the year after that will be better than that one

technology eh love it and hate but we cant stop it

my pc is only fit for holding the back door open now 3 years on

MikeyTang

iTrader: (4)

I have spoken to my local dealer and they have unofficially confirmed the release of a 330PPP in March

This is unofficial as no one is suppose to know about this until after the full release of the WR1. But as i see this is not the case.

They mentioned nothing about it not being available for the MY03. Plus their demo is a MY03 and it has the 330PPP

johnfelstead

The PPP is an ever evolving product now IMHO.

The STi7 PPP was a piggy back boost clamp based upgrade, this was superseded by the STi8 PPP that included a new fuel pump and uses EcuTek software to remap the ECU.

If you follow what Stephen Done is doing with the EcuTek software you will realise that he is discovering new functionality and data on a daily basis in these ECU's, this new functionality is being fed back to the mappers who use this software.

Prodrive is just one of those mappers who are getting constantly more sophisticated tools via EcuTek and will be learning all the time how to best exploit these new features.

There is so much you can do with this software you couldn’t do 12 months ago; visit the Forum on the EcuTek website and you will see some very interesting developments taking place.

It's absurd to complain about steps up in performance, it would be a good move if Prodrive offered some system of software upgrade when appropriate. Whether this is something that would be feasible is the real question that only Prodrive and IM could answer.

Danny B

Of course Subaru are going to release a 320+bhp PPP for the Impreza, they have to compete with the Evo FQ-330

Chins

Hate to be a manufacturer of computers with you lot around. No one would ever buy anything.

Ive not seen Mitsubishi offering free 330 upgrades to 300 customers.

Jonathan

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Jonathan, this was discused when Prodrive first moved to ECUTEK software - "what happens when an improvement is made and they release version 2.0?". This is done with comercial software all the time and many give free upgrades as support (for set periods in some cases).

...But what if some 1st gen EcuTek PPP owners are getting upgrades free right now...

F
Edited to add:
"I see your STi PPP for sale, which EcuTek version have you got 295, 305 or 320? My offer will be adjusted accordingly of course"

[Edited by Floyd - 1/9/2004 9:31:39 PM]

p1doc

i feel prodrive should offer the upgrade to owners of the less tuned sti's as it encourages customers that they are been well looked after and especially as from the above there are at least 2 dealerships telling buyers that their demo is 330ps/bhp on 03 models
i can understand that technology does advance but if mitsubishi can offer upgrades etc then why cant prodrive
martin
i could just go to motorshow and swap ecu's or get the engine off the t25

marklemac

I think the majority of ppp owners wouldn't mind and upgrade fee.

I certainly would be happy to pay a sum for some extra power, but as long as that sum still retained the warranty and gave a fairly good increase in power.

If it doesn't then roll on end of warranty period and hello Tek3.