ScoobyDoo555

MODS - please leave here (although it's not directly Scooby related, it will get more airing here. And it affects everybody)

I was under the impression that -

you cannot dial or use your phone whilst driving

you CAN use it if you've got a handsfree car kit

you CAN use it if you've got a handsfree kit with voicedial.

I've been told this is now not the case.

What exactly can you use?
I personally don't mind ignoring my phone whilst driving - takes too much enjoyment away from the drive!!!

Dan

pugoetru

driving while holding a phone is illegal as far as i can tell

i just hope they enforce the law as you see to many near misses due to people using phones and not paying atention

BMWhere?

As far as I'm aware, you can use a hands free provided you don't neet to touch the phone to use it i.e. remote answer and dial functions. You can have a phone switched on, but if it rings you can't answer it unless you pull over first! You can't read or send text messages unles you have a phone that lets you do this without touching or looking at the phone! As a general rule touching your phone (with any part of your body!?!?) while on the road (i.e. not pulled over off the road) is illegal! Please correct me if I got it wrong!

stevoWRX

Very grey area .

Have a look at Autocar mag . Does a very good article on it . From every phone company to the police say something different .

Main rules are , if I can remember, that you cannot "HOLD" the phone while in the car , so a cradle is a must , and Handsfree kits are allowed . Not sure about texting .

wacky.banana

I spoke to someone in the Carphonewarehouse about this the other day, as I'm just about to treat myself to my annual change of phone.

They tell me that you must ensure that you can use the phone without holding it or handling it. Somehow this makes using a bluetooth enabled phone ok provided you have either a bluetooth car kit or an earpiece. It also makes a traditional car kit ok; however my understanding is that using a phone with a cabled earpiece is illegal.

I had intended to go to the five-oh website to confirm the facts. Just have not had time to get round to it.

Anyone know any better in terms of relevant/valid info on this?

WB

sulli

I am always using the phone whilst driving, it's not a problem.
Does this now mean that eating a mars bar whilst driving is illegal, cause it also needs one hand to hold??
Is talking on phone in a jam illegal?
I would have no problem with this if Police addressed the issues of people who cannot drive with both hands on the wheel, tailgaters, people who take no notice of other traffic, impolite drivers, people who pull out in front of you and dawdle, those who cut you up and when you beep stick their fingers up, those who speed in totally inappropriate and unsafe places, people who constantly stall their cars, people unable to use an indicator, lane-hoppers....... I could go on!
The law is an ***.

Up_North

try here:

http://www.hrzone.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=120009

i think the important thing is that you can't HOLD the phone.

Ian

pugoetru

sulli you are right some people can drive and talk at the same time




the majority cannot

phones cause more near misses than mars bars do

stevoWRX

Totally agree with you sulli .
Know I will probably get shot down for this , but , one of my bugbearers is people who smoke while driving . THEY ARE HOLDING A FEKKIN' FLAME IN THEIR HAND FOR GODS SAKE !! , WHICH I'M SURE WILL CAUSE QUITE A REACTION WITH THE DRIVER IF HE OR SHE ACCIDENTLY DROPS IT...ARE CARS FLAMEPROOF ? NO ! ARE THE DRIVERS CLOTHES FLAMEPROOF ? DON'T THINK SO ! .. PLUS THEY WILL BE CONSTANTLY DRIVING WITH A FOG INFRONT OF THEM !! ... Not the best driving conditions surely ? " Are these people 100% in charge of their vehicle ? .. I think not !


Rant mode : OFF

mattm

My company has been investigating this and are interpreting the rules as the phone has to be in a cradle... the upshot is if weve been issued with a company phone and drive on company business then they will pay for a fitted car kit.

As an aside, on a modern scooby I dont particularly like the inevitable external antenna that a fitted car kit entails.

scoobob

The new legislation wording can be found at: http://www.legislation.hmso.gov.uk/si/si2003/20032695.htm

ScoobyDoo555

Wacky Banana wrote :- What if your cabled earpiece has the voice activated "one touch button"? Am I to assume that this is illegal?

Dan

MART X

i JUST BOUGHT A NOKIA BLUE TOOTH CAR KIT THAT HAS JUST A SINGLE BUTTON ON VIEW TO ANSWER, END AND ACTIVATE VOICE DIAL.

IT IS AS LEGAL PUSHING THE BUTTON TO ANSWER THE PHONE AS IT IS TO PUSH THE FOG LIGHT BUTTON.

BLUE TOOTH IS THE ANSWER, NOKIA KIT £95 ON-LINE & LOCAL STEREO SHOP £50 TO FIT. BARGAIN. ALSO HAS OTHER HANDY FEATURES SUCH AS RADIO MUTING, AUTO PAIRING ECT....

HOPE THIS HELPS,

GOT TO GO NOW AS ITS AWKWARD TYPING ON THE LAPTOP WHEN DRIVING!!!

jods

As I understand it the law states that you must NOT touch your phone whilst in the car.

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

Get some bird in the passenger seat to hold it against your ear.
(forget about the phone )

S Page

Very conflicting information is being given wherever you go.
I was in a service station on Saturday and they were selling hands free kits for £14.99 and part of their sales ploy was telling you you would get a £30 fine and 3 points. Others just tell you a fine of £30. and serious cases can go to court with a possible £1k fine and points.
Obviously if you don't get points there isn't much detterant on using your phone and as such has taken some of the power away from the police as before they could report you for dangerous driving and driving without due care and attention, that would attract bigger fines and more points.
Has anyone else been told they would get points, i was under the impression it was just the fine???
So are we going to see double prosecutions coming out soon, what do they do if they catch you on camera speeding and also see you using your phone on the same photo???
Is this a case of yet more precious police time that will be spent collecting fines rather than on proper police work such as catching thieves???

IanW

In a new regulation due to come into force on 1 December 2003, it is a specific offence to use a hand-held phone, or similar device, when driving. The penalty is a £30 fixed penalty or up to £1,000 on conviction in court (£2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles, buses or coaches). Drivers still risk prosecution (for failure to have proper control) if they use hands-free phones when driving.

Q1. What does the regulation say about hand-held phones?

The use of a hand-held phone or similar hand-held device while driving will be prohibited. A hand-held device is something that "is or must be held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function".

A device is "similar" to a mobile phone if it performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data. Examples of interactive communication functions are sending and receiving spoken or written messages, sending or receiving still or moving images and providing access to the internet.

2-way radios are subject to special treatment under the regulations. See Q14 below regarding 2-way radios for further information.

Q2. Is hands-free phone equipment allowed?

Provided that a phone can be operated without holding it, then hands-free equipment is not prohibited by the new regulation.

And pushing buttons on a phone while it is in a cradle or on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike for example is not covered by the new offence, provided you don't hold the phone.

However, hands-free phones are also distracting and you still risk prosecution for failing to have proper control of a vehicle under Regulation 104 of the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 if you use a hands-free phone when driving. If there is an incident, the use of any phone or similar device might justify charges of careless or dangerous driving.

Q3. What about texting/internet access/video phones?

The use of a mobile phone or similar device for any of these activities while driving is also prohibited if the phone (or other device) has to be held in order to operate it.

Q4. Will drivers still be able to use navigation equipment or personal digital assistants (PDAs) or other computer equipment that sends or receives data (which would include GPS transmissions)?

Yes - providing that it is not a hand-held device. Use of devices other than mobile phones are only prohibited if the device performs an interactive communication function by sending and receiving data. If the device does not perform this type of function, you can use the device without breaching the regulations.

But remember the warning in the Highway Code (Rule 128) that using in-vehicle systems can be distracting. You must exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times.

Q5. Why are you not banning the use of hands-free mobile phones while driving?

Using any type of phone while driving is distracting.

Drivers should remember that the police can still use existing legislation (for failure to have proper control) if a driver is distracted by a call on a hands-free phone. If there is an incident and the driver is using any phone (hand-held or hands-free) or similar device, then there is a risk of prosecution for careless or dangerous driving.

Q6. Will mobile phones have to be switched off in vehicles?

No. Passengers may want to use them. And drivers can use them when they are safely parked.

Q7. What if the phone rings when I'm driving?

Let it ring and return the call when safely parked. Better to switch to voicemail before starting.

Q8. Who do the new regulations apply to?

The new regulations apply to the drivers of all motor vehicles on the road, including cars, motorcycles, goods vehicles, buses, coaches and taxis.

They also apply to anyone supervising a learner driver, while the learner driver is driving. Anyone supervising a learner driver needs to be concentrating on what the driver is doing and should not be using a mobile phone.

Q9. Do the new mobile phone regulations apply to cyclists?

No. However, the police have powers to deal with careless or dangerous cycling.

Q10. Can I use a hand-held mobile phone when stopped in a traffic jam?

The prohibition applies when driving. Driving includes times when stopped at traffic lights or during other hold-ups that may occur during a typical journey when a vehicle can be expected to move off after a short while.

In exceptional traffic jams, such as a lengthy stoppage on a motorway, it would be clear that someone wasn't driving if the engine was off.

Q11. Are there any exemptions?

Yes. There is an exemption for calls to 999 (or 112) in genuine emergencies where it is unsafe or impractical to stop. There is also an exemption for the use of 2-way radios (see Q14 below).

Q12. Will I be able to cradle a phone between my ear and shoulder?

No. The offence applies if a phone has to be "held" while making or receiving a call. Therefore you should not hold a phone between your ear and shoulder - or anywhere else - when driving.

Q13. Are employers guilty of an offence if their employees use a hand-held phone while driving?

The new regulations apply to "anyone who causes or permits any other person" to use a hand-held mobile phone while driving.

The Department considers that employers would not be liable just because they supplied a telephone or because they phoned an employee who was driving. However, employers would probably be liable if they required their employees to use a hand-held phone while driving and might also be liable if they failed to forbid employees to use such phones on company business.

Q14. Will 2-way radios be included in the new offence?

The use of 2-way radio equipment (unless the device can also be used as a phone) when driving is not included in the new offence but remember there is still a risk of distraction and prosecution under other powers.

If a device is a dual or multi purpose device that can be used both as a mobile phone and a 2-way radio, the use of the device while driving or supervising a provisional licence holder is prohibited. Use is prohibited whether the device is being used as a 2-way radio or as a mobile phone.

Q15. If you prohibit using mobile phones, then surely you'll have to stop people talking or tuning the radio? What powers do the police have?

We have no such intentions. There are many potential distractions while driving and it remains the driver's responsibility to drive safely at all times. Research shows that it is more distracting to talk on a mobile phone than to have a conversation with a passenger who can see what is happening.

Q16. Is the offence endorsable?

No. The offence is subject to a £30 fixed penalty or maximum fine of £1000 for conviction in court (maximum of £2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles or buses/coaches.

However, we do plan to increase the penalty for the new offence by making it subject to 3 penalty points and a £60 fixed penalty. Primary legislation will be needed for this when a suitable opportunity arises to amend Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988. We do not have a timetable for that yet.

Remember, in some circumstances, for example if there has been an accident, a prosecution for careless or dangerous driving may be justified if a phone was in use at the time of the crash. The penalties on conviction for such offences include heavy fines, endorsement, disqualification and, in serious cases, imprisonment.

Q17. Where can I go for more information?

You should seek independent legal advice if you are in doubt as to whether any particular action is prohibited by the regulations.

I hope this helps you all.

Ian

ChrisB

LMAO @ Jods

I've got a PDF file on my e-mail at work I'll upload tomorrow which might help explain more.

My understanding is that you CAN use a Nokia ear piece / mic on a wire into a phone, as long as you don't have to hold the phone whilst you use it. In my car it sits in a slot under the handbrake. Hence using the press switch on the mic, you can answer and voice dial calls whilst complying with the new law.

ChrisB

No need for me to upload, the PDF can be found here:

http://www.jabra.com/news/viewarticle.cfm?ID=162

S Page

Thanks for clearing that up Ian.

hades

Chris - exactly the same understanding I have, as I have the same issue - a Nokia earpiece type hands free kit, but with a button next to the mic to answer calls etc. As you don't need to pick up the phone, you are still legal. Some companies are now insisting on no use of mobiles whilst driving on business irrespective of hands free kits, but that is not yet a legal thing.

Of course, someone will always be able to find a grey area. E.g. assume you're using one of these, and have left the phone in a pocket or in your lap or something as the cable is too short to reach the convenient cubby-hole. Are you still "holding" the phone?

Edit to turn into English (almost)

[Edited by hades - 11/27/2003 12:01:55 AM]

john_s

iTrader: (1)

No need for external aerials. They can be easily obtained that stick inside windows. I've got one in my car and it works fine.

John.

WRX_Rich

iTrader: (5)

seen a wicked poster the other day - a bloke with a live chicken strapped to his face whilst driving with the caption " at least its not a mobile phone " lol made me giggle

ScoobyDoo555

Thanks Ian - that clears it it

I've got a S55 Bluetooth phone, but to be honest, I change my phone every year, and my contract is up in Feb, so I don't want to buy a Bluetooth earpice. Plus [flamesuit ON] I kinda think you look like a **** with that StarTrek "Uhura" thing stuck in your ear!! [flamesuit OFF]

Just my 2p

Dan

ScoobyDoo555

LOL@ WRX Rich

Dan

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

Where will it end? Next thing the government might ban is cars with a manual gearbox. They might consider it to distracting taking one hand off the wheel to change gear.

DrEvil

I've heard that all ear-piece based hands free kits are covered as things NOT not to use. You have to have a true hands free set-up. Of course, this could be b*ll*x.

OllyK

Hmm posible future bans?
1) Radio - you could be listening to something on it an not be concentrating on the road.
2) Having passengers in the car - you might speak to them or worse yet they may speak to you and you then have to think!
3) Subaru Impreza's - big silly grin on face results in eyes being partially closed!
4) All cars - people can't be trusted and the road congestion issue is a nightmare, ban all cars, problem solved!

johnfelstead

it was illegal before these new laws came into being to use a mobile whilst driving under the dangerous driving laws. But unfortunately, like most things this government does, it has to be seen to be doing something, so they brought out this new set of laws.

It is illegal to eat/drink anything whilst driving already too, so mars bars are out i am afraid.

If you do decide to take a call without an aproved hands free kit, switch your engine off when you stop and remove the keys from the ignition. Yes, i am being serious, it is in the legislation that if the engine is running you are in control of the vehicle and subject to a fine, even when parked up.

IanW

BTT as this is now law.