matt 1b

I own a Civic Type R and im thinking of making the plunge!

Whats faster out of the std 98-00 model turbo & the CTR?
What corners better?
Whats more fun?

Obviously you guys will be bias but try to be honest

dave-rb5

Unbiased opinion would be change !!

18 months ago i was trying to decide between a new CTR or a second hand impreza. I unfortunately let my head rule, as my day to day driving in an Impreza made no sence at all. You can guess what's coming next, 12 months later i still really wanted an Impreza, but this time the heart won. Hence i now have a 1999 Impreza RB5 and have not looked back since.
The CTR is a fine car, but my biggest fault was that at any sign of dampness nothing could stop the wheelspin apart from a really slow pull away, the Impreza is a totally different story, grips like crazy. Performance wise there probably is not too much to choose (especially in the dry, wet is a rather different story), obviously the CTR has to be kept on the boil to be rapid.

Hope this helps

Dave

Leviathan

Ive seen a few things written on here about people who have owned the Civic Type R and then gone over to the Impreza. All of it was positive, apart from fuel cosumption, but who gives a ****
Fact is, is that it will never compete with AWD no matter what, the levels of grip in a scoob are imense and will leave you stunned. Beware of lift off oversteer though
I saw something written in a mag a few years back, it said-
"it takes a professional driver to keep up with an average Impreza driver" Quality!
Pity u wernt down here, id take you out in mine

16vmarc

I test drove a Type-R and theyre nice cars, sound nice too. Didnt feel special enough though so i bought the scoob.

gav888

ive downloaded a clip of a intergra type r vs impreza type rvs civic type r (old style) and the result after a lap (thats all the clip was) in not even a cars lengh between the impreza and integra, the integra isnt alot diff from the new civic type r.

so on a dry track theres nothing in it. but from what ive read, unless its dry,dont bother trying to keep with an impreza.

Thats not biased as i own a BMW 2.5 Alpina, sh*t in the wet, and ok in the dry, and im thinking of changing it for a impreza, but theres that little bit of dought saying, is it worth the extra cost???? hence why ive been looking at integras or something else 4WD.!!!!!

sti-spec-a

Dont suppose you have a link to download this footage of the Type R time trial....cheers grunt

Jonto

Why don't you have both ?

Get a Subaru Impreza STI 5 TYPE R

Nick Martin

I parked up next to red Type R yesterday at Fleet Services. That kid was looking at my Impreza not the Type R.
Squeeling something about rallies, Subaru, Solberg. That made me smile as i got back in and flat four burbled out the car park.
Ouch on the fuel, ouch on the insurance but neeeeeeeeeeeeeeooooooowww on the road!
I love it and thats biased i'm afraid.
Try one on your favorite twisty bit of black stuff.
You'll be hooked.

black knight

me me me .....

used to own a 02 CTR and 98 V4 sti Type R.

CTR is scary in wet with OE tyres, wheel spin like crazy.
handling is quite unpredictable, more often understeer when pushed to the limit. steering feel is top class tho probably due to 17" alloys. liked the steering wheel the most, right sized. low maintenance compared to scoob. fuel comsumption is not much cheaper than scoob. gerabox is very very good and crisp.

scoob? what can i say... smiles all the way, makes the morning drive to work worth while. dont know abt a uk scoob but my type r is a diff class from the CTR regardless of what they say abt vtec and how good it is.

only thing got scoob b4 ctr came along so the scoob is modded to the hilt re suspension and ctr was company car so stayed std. all in all, ctr is very good value for money and running costs but if u can, deffo suggest a scoob.

anyway, mental effect- sold ctr, missed for 2 hours, sold scoob... still missing her today!

damage

Went thru same dilema 3 years ago between scoob and intergra type r. I brought the scoob after 50k and 3 years I still have no plans to sell it.

Buy the scoob, don't go for a 2wd drive hatch back that will wheelie every time you pull away.

smithers

I cant speak for the type r but have owned alot of fast front wheel drive cars, now proud owner of 99 classic,4wd anyday. I know its not as quick as its imported brothers but I still get exited before every drive, Ive had it for 7 months now and I still cant get enough of it.Have read on the forum that the 99 car although it has the last shape of the classic plus the better brakes as someone has said it also has a different ecu to the 00 model which is supposed to make it slightly quicker than the 00.If your after bhp Im sure you'll buy an import anyway but I is very happy with my slightly tweaked 230bhp.

cosmicchris00

Some on here say the '99 is quicker than the '00. THey both have the series 2 engine but...
I have taken the plunge recently andf purchased a '99 wagon.
One of my better decisions and whats more the girlfriend agrees.

BONUS

Give the Civic a miss, I used to work in the enginee plant in Swindon and they treat theior staff like dogsh*t

taffyterzo

I had a my00 uk turbo, sold it and got a 02 reg ctr,
Now drive a slightly modded my98 uk turbo,
The civic is a great hot hatch, prob the best for the £££££££££
The subaru impreza is a great performance car for the £££££££££
Thats the difference between the two; 1 is a hot hatch (and the best for the money)
And the other is a performance car (and that is also the best performance car for the money)
What I'm trying to say is that one is a performance car and the other is a hot hatch, and both of them are very good at what they do !!!

McRash

Bias rules by the look of it...

I have both a CTR and new model Impreza with PPP. The WRX is quicker in all conds due to 4WD AND the PPP. Without the PPP the CTR would beat it on dry roads. Don't forget that grip is not influenced by 4WD - only traction which is why WRX's are so much quicker to 60 but not that much to 100.
Once up and running the CTR reels in a std 01-03 WRX and keeps up with the classic unmodded ones. Once over 100 the CTR pulls away from them steadily due to aerodynamics.

Also the CTR is MUCH tighter to drive. THE WRX feels really baggy and loose afterwards. I followed the rally recently and the CTR was darting around the Welsh backroads (dry) quicker and more accurately than the WRX's.

In the wet it is a different story as it is also on bumpy roads and that is where the WRX beats the CTR hands down.

So, both are good - the CTR is more focussed and precise and the WRX a better all rounder - have fun!

C

gav888

nah, havent got a link to the clip yet, still trying to figue out how to do it!!!!

black knight

agree that CTR wouldnt be slower than uk scoob in a straight line eg m-way driving but never did silly speeds in either cars anyway.

but here's a rundown of a test (on welsh private road in summer before both cars went - evo triangle, ran appox 10 miles)

driver 1: me. did a few track days but say average driver
driver 2: mate. track day maniac, drives like possessed. not many will pass him in same car except mellow!and other gurus say more than above average driver.

scene 1: Me in CTR, mate in scoob. 2 corners from starting point and he's gone. cant even see the rear lights. mind u, dry sunny day.

scene 2: Me in scoob, mate in CTR. Was close but he was unable to overtake tho. not as bad as leaving him from corner 2 but was always a step ahead.

His comment was, CTR is a fun car but quite scary to push to the limit. at decent speed it's very sharp but once pushed, quite unpredictable. He said that I'll need to learn how to drive the CTR to extract as much fun.

insurance- CTR wins, no contest. abt 500. scoob 1000
safety- CTR parked anywhere, scoob- checking her up every 5 minutes.

had peace of mind when out in town with CTR but scoob? lots of dosh paid to NCP car parks!

Just from my own experience so not indicating it applies to all.

MadMark

I swapped my CTR for an 03 WRX just over 7 months ago.
- Much quieter
- Slightly faster
- Same Fuel consumption at 28mpg
- None of those traction problems out of junctions
- Better built
- Lovely noise (with Prodrive backbox)

A classic will be even faster ....

Wannabe

Well now,

my mother has a ct R and i have driven it loads of times and i have a sti type R and did have a uk turbo...the uk turbo was about the same as the ctR in acceleration but the scoob was so much nicer, easier and put the power down at anytime so much better than the civic and was a much more cumfy ride on the motorway and the country stuff...if it was me i would by a uk turbo...there so much easier to put up with all the time...the civic wears me out it follows the road all the time dipping into the side and tramlines when over taking...if you know what i mean.


Sy

McRash

Better built? You surprise me as the CTR is much better put together.

WRX is definitely quieter and better for all round/weather use but on a dry road I think that it feels cumbersome compared to the CTR.

AJFleming

Its tough if you can put up with FWD the CTR is a wicked car. Had a sit in one the other day, beautiful ergonomics etc. Superb engineering. If you want rarity factor and a superb car then I would recomend a DC5 Integra!!!!
STi Scoobs are awesome though and without a doubt a faster car.

Anthony.

Mad Gypsy

Go for a STi Type R, it's the most fun you can have with your trousers on!

MadMark

McRash - yup my CTR was the most rattly thing I have ever had!
CTR feels sharper but bites on the limit ....
03 WRX just slides gently over the limit ....

IMHO you learn to change your driving style. CTR chuck in, Scoob set up for the corner then boot it straight through .....
I regularly eat CTR's for Breakfast - particularly on bumpy roads!

Boyakasha

iTrader: (2)

Had a CTR, great car but putting the power down was just a nightmare. If they gave a it Ltd Slip Dif like the JDM one then it would be great, The build qulaity was excellent and so was handling. Bridgestones that it comes with are crap and the the paint finish was not the best (Body kit colour did not match the body panels).

Kept it for 18 months then went back to AWD and got a 03 WRX STi, have never looked back

bits'n'pieces

I own both (CTR is a company car therefore it gets driven like it's stolen ! - no parts to pay for). I love the scoob (had two imprezas and a legacy B4).... Like some of the guys have said, a ctr wont keep up with an impreza to 60 but from there when the vtec kicks in it'll stay on the imprezas **** and I've even spooked a silver impreza by going past him at about 95 (private road), didn't pull away much tough. On the other hand I've been in my std MY00 when someone had a go in a ctr and couldn't shake him. The downside of a ctr is that if you want to keep up with a scoob on a roundabout or very tight turn, you've got to be prepared to take it all the way and powerslide, where the scoob will just sligshot round it. My thoughts are that a scoob outperforms a ctr as it has awd and it's even better in the wet and even better with mods, but people on the board are too quick to put down Hondas pocket rocket and it's due some respect for the power/weight ratio and the fact that it does (no matter what std owners brag) keep up with a std scoob from about 60-70mph....

Paul. - Yes I do prefer the scoob but this opinion was written as unbiased as possible.

Nick Martin

Off topic - Vehicle dynamics - Maybe ignortant and probably opened myself up for abuse from all sides. If this is wrong please let me know cos otherwise i'm spouting sh*t to all - but powerslide a FWD car? its a powered slide. Doesnt this consitite the control of vehicle yaw by a powered "back end" wanting to rotate past its own front end. The ultimate vehicle direction being controlled by a combination of the power application through this "back end, and "opposite lock" steering input at the front.

The ability to negotiate a r/bout in this condition is to be able to sustain the "over rotation" in a controlled manner thus giving the vehicle an ultimate curved trajectory.

In a FWD you either get understeer which you can control by application of power so that you dont run out of road - lifting off the throttle until the front end bites and regains directional control (never initiating yaw), or lift off oversteer which gives you the yaw by the transfer of the vehicle weight about its CoG, unweighting the back end as you turn in - creating a pendulum effect,
In this scenario it will never be possible to increase the yaw by the application of power in the "opposite lock" condition, as this would try to restore the vehicle to its original direction.

Whilst being able to direct a "lift off oversteer" moment for a short while, it would never be possible to perpetuate the over -rotation condition ad infintum. You would never be able to get the sideways driving record, negotiate a cirlce with the axles continuously on a different track or perform the ubiqitous donut.

McRash

Likewise my CTR is the company car. It seems to have suddenly loosened up at aroun 16k miles and is flying at the moment. Optimax makes no difference whatsoever unlike the Scooby (it is PPPed though so set up for it).

It could be familiarity but I now prefer the CTR although it is definitely not as quick in all conds. You feel like you are in a racing car in the CTR whereas the WRX is all a bit too secure even when sliding about. Thus you do not have to be going as fast in the CTR to gain a higher level of fun.

bits'n'pieces

by powerslide I meant driving to the point where the back end wants to become the front end but then pulling it back round, not advisable and I only did this once by accident - forgot which car I was driving !

chrisp

CTR if well driven may hang onto a Uk turbo, import no chance.

Most mags averaged around 0-60 in about 5.2-5.5 for a 98-00 UK turbo, under 5 for a 280PS import. The PPP cars about 245bhp were close to 5.

0-100 about 14.5 for a UK turbo, a 280PS import is at least a second quicker than that.

Handling is very subjective but they do respond well to suspension tweaks and geometry setups and larger alloys and tyres. The outright grip is awesome. Wheelspin, whats thats, that something 2wd cars suffer from isnt it .

If it was me I would look for an MY99 onwards car rather than an MY98. As it has the phase 2 engine 218PS (215bhp) and the 4 pots and the new style bumper.



[Edited by chrisp - 11/12/2003 6:48:30 PM]