macka

further to the thread re WRX or Cupra R or S3, wot's anyone's opinion on WRX with PPP V's STi with or without PPP.

I think if your not doing too many miles the STi takes the busicuit I drove both with PPP for an hour each - I do 40k/annum so bought the WRX and added PPP which I thought gave me a good compromise with a car that was still easy to do big miles in. The STi was brilliant in every way but the ride was really harsh - felt like it had no suspension at all!(which is what you need when flat out but not 90% of the time. Dealer told me that the 0-60mph is actually 4.7s on WRX with PPP which is faster than the STi with PPP??

StoneSTI

I had a BugEye WRX without PPP for just over 2 years and did 70K in it. Mainly motorway miles.

Now got a new STi with PPP and really on the motorway, there is not a lot of difference in terms of ride, as most of them are pretty flat. The only place I notice the difference is on the M62 between Manchester and Warrington, but I wouldn't say it was a problem.

Simon

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

I think your dealer is telling you porkie pies


StiPPP is 4.6 to 60

Suspension is improved with the fitment of Prodrive springs and bump stops on the Sti

The choice is yours

macka

Do the STi's get a bit smoother with a few miles on? - maybe it's me getting old but the STi just felt really harsh on A roads (I didn't go on Motorway for the test drive) rather than firm yet supple on the WRX.

Got to admit I really wanted an STi, if I new I could get a spring kit or different dampers that just made the suspension a bit more progressive I'd probably get one next year if I can afford.

Anyone got any advice on this for the future other than buy a Volvo!!?

macka

steve - I think he must have been comparing with std STi - cheers for advice anyway

chiark

The suspension on the STI is firm, but what gets me is the bounciness.

Prodrive do a kit which arguably stiffens the ride, but it gets rid of the bounce. I'd say have a try of that...

...but for day to day driving, I love the WRX.

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, more than likely

The spring mod isn't that expensive and has transformed the handling on my Sti8PPP

You won't notice it on smooth motorways, its when you get on the bumpy stuff. The car tends to jump about on bends with poor surfaces in standard trim. The springs don't settle quickly enough on a standard car and you hit understeer to early for me.

I also have a front Strutt brace which helps as well

macka

yeah that sums it up chairk, it shook my guts up pretty badly and the WRX didn't. Glad I went for the WRX on balance then but the STi looks the dogs doo dahs.

maybee STi with PPP and Pro Drive springs next then ££££££££££££

Ru$$Rip

STi all the way! I have driven a 03 WRX PPP and it is utter sh1te that it does 0-60 in 4.7!

macka

Some bloke on this site reconed he got timed at some scooby race day at less than 4.7s to 60 in a WRX with PPP??

couldn't give a **** really but I admit the Sti did feel quicker.

Anyone else know what the official figures are just to put this one to bed? (that's WRX with PPP)

chiark

Take it out on a cold day Russ... The WRX seems to be massively affected by inlet temps.

But the figures are skewed by the WRX needing 2 changes against the STI's 3 to hit 60, hence the STI will feel faster every day IMHO - though I've only ever driven a PPP'd STI

macka

chairk - the dealer did say WRX PPPwas faster to 60 due to gear ratio's so that probably sums it up - less gear changes equals less time off the gas. I've also noticed major difference in performance due to outside temp

chiark

oh, and the fuel consumption on the STI is significantly worse - like 20% extra. Not that that is really a consideration but it might be a factor if you're doing the motorway miles (I get 32mpg out of the WRX non-ppp, the STI PPP managed 24mpg - both being driven at sane motorway crusing speeds for 320 miles)

The STI is fantastic, but the WRX is IMHO a more livable-with car for me. Others will find the WRX plain and want the more rewarding (and slightly less comfortable) STI. Horses for courses

Cheers,
Nick.

ramdor

iTrader: (2)

The spring kit has turned my car (my03sti_ppp) into the machine it should have been when I picked it up on march 1st.

To cut a long story short, I was totally fed up with it. I didnt once just go out for a drive like I used to with my classic (my00_turbo2000_ppp). My new car just seemed to bounce all over the shop, way too much body roll and other small niggles (constant vibes at 70 odd) etc. It was just a total disapointment.

The prodrive spring kit has totally transformed the car, more so than wacking the £2000 ppp onto it. It now goes where I point it, doesnt have fiesta levels of body roll, all vibes through the steering wheel are gone, tracking is dead on and the 'I am in a mini, bouncing down the road' has vanished.

Back to back driving of an STi with the prodive spring kit vs one without would be more impressive than PPP vs standard IMHO. The spring kit is just _that_ good.

If the suspension puts you off the STi, then try and find one with the Prodive springs. You will like it

Richie.

[Edited by ramdor - 10/22/2003 10:08:12 PM]

macka

I wonder if Subaru will fix this for next years STi? - goes against the grain somewhat to think that you have to spend money to get what is supposed to be their flagship car to be acceptable as you've described.

One of the senior members of a dealership actually told me his misses refuses to go out in an STi just because of the ride quality

cheers, macka
P.S. Chiark the MPG would kill it for me also at 40k miles per annum - over £100/month extra cost in fuel!

StoneSTI

How much is the prodrive Spring Kit. Are all dealers fitting it, or just specific ones.

chiark

yes, to my mind the non-PPH (springed) STI is a flawed beast... I wouldn't expect to pay to have what I consider to be a bloody awful fault fixed.

DBY

Nick agree with you about WRX being affected by outside temp with recent cold weather my car is much better than the strangled summer version with the air con on!

Regards

John

STEVECHAPS

STi PPP & Springs here & everything said about the brilliance of the 'Progressive' spring kit is correct. The springs are about 225.00 (Haggle variance?) plus fitting which includes a full geom re-set up etc. (So around 450-500). It makes an unbelievable difference & having tested an Evo 8 FQ300 I reckon the fully equipped Scooby now betters the mitsi & still comes in cheaper (Espacially as you can haggle on the Sub Price!).
Not sure about the 0-60 as I seem to be able to get there in 2nd

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

Macca I'm the man with a timing of 4.52
I chose the WRX+PPP SL for exactly the same reasons as you. If I was going to do minimal miles then the STi would be on the drive now. Unfortunately at the time I made my choice I didn't know about this forum, otherwise I would have got some advice first. I didn't know about the springs and other goodies as the dealer never mentioned it.

On reflection I'm delighted with the car. Every day it's a breeze to live with and I still get out of the car with a massive grin

Making a few mods but nothing drastic. Enjoy the car its a hoot.


VROOM VROOM

Dazza's-STi

Nice one Ramdor...
You've done it for me!
Please post or send a photo of the new ride hight!

Ta
Dazza

Neilo

I would agree that if you nailed it just right, the WRX with PPP would go under 4.7, im pretty confident that my standard one gets under the 5.6 thats quoted. (Im getting quite good at launch control now )

So im not at all surprised that one was timed at 4.5

just my 2p

Supercue

iTrader: (1)

What I really like about the car is that besides being quick there's no rattles/sqeaks or other really annoying noises that you get with a lot of other marques.

My BM used to drive me insane until I went over the interior with a fine comb to tighten every screw and bolt etc to stop the rattles.

The only real let down is the I.C.E. which as my new MP3 player has just arrived will sort that one out but overall thank god I took a friends advice and test drove a Scoob

compshack

I was WRX PPP all the way, I didn't want a STI for the comfort reason, and then I drove one with PPP fitted. No competition the STI won hands down. I have driven over 2500 miles since I bought it 2 months ago and can honestly say I haven't noticed any comfort problems at all apart from pushing you in the back when you put yer foot down.

CTRnutter

I can't honestly beleive what i am reading, My comments aren't biased but if you think your WRX PPP does 0-60 in 4.7 then your in a dream world, either that or my STI-8 PPP is a jet fighter and must be doing nearer 1 second.

I have had the pleasure in having a fine dual on a private track against a PPP'd WRX and to say the car pulled at least three car lengths in a 0-60 sprint is an understatement and also the car has a far better balance for cornering,

otherwise why do you think enthusiates buy them we'd all buy a WRX if it was faster with better handling!!!

The WRX is a good car don't get me wrong but the STI is in a ver different league, at the end of the day for the money these cars are fantastic but we can all pick holes in everything, but you just paid 28k for a car that can still keep up with cars twice their price

mattstant

go here http://www.prodrive.com/uploads/03MY%20WRX%20PPP.pdf for prodrive figures on 03 WRX ppp.

They quote 4.8 0 -60 and now mine is run in i have tried a few standing starts and i do believe them that extra gear on the STI is probably the key to the 0-60 times being so close you could lose half a second or more on a gear change.

[Edited by mattstant - 10/23/2003 1:27:51 PM]

Neilo

CTR, they are nearly as quick to 60, i promise you, after that then sure, its a different story to to the increase in power over it, but it is do-able. if i had PPP id show you

macka

Nice one Supercue - enjoy the car and keep smiling. I like you am looking to do some small mods, I've just bought some STi wheels and tyres and am having them resprayed silver. Maybe some other bits and bobs but ther car is just a fantastic all rounder. I've driven some pretty expensive cars and none gave me the same "grin factor".

Couldn't actually live with the fuel economy of the STi PPP right now with the miles I do now anyway.

Cheers, Macka

SirFozzalot

I have got a completely standard (for now ) Sti8 and I have to say that I really don't think the suspension is as bad as I was expecting after reading a few threads about it on here. I agree it is pretty stiff and a little bouncy on the standard suspension but I have been in much worse cars with much less performance and handling.

I went through the same dilemma about WRX PPP or STi and in the end I realised that I would probably end up spending loads of cash on the WRX to make it look and perform as good as the STi is already, so I went for the STi and can now think about spending that same amount of cash improving the STi instead

I have heard people say that with the PPP and Prodrive springs it makes it "The car it should have been" but I guess Subaru have to compromise a bit to keep the cost of the car down.

Just my opinion of course ........and I still love my Scoob!

mattstant

just sooth CRTnutters feathers.
I dont for a second expect a ppp wrx to beat an sti ppp in any conditions i personally went for the wrx ppp because it made more sense as a day to day drive (That and the fact that the misses complained bitterly about the stiff jarring springs on my old MY99)

Ido think however that below 60 things are a little closer than you think

From prodrive web site

--------Wrx ppp Sti ppp
0-60 4.8 4.62

0-100 14.1 12.2

stnd qtr 13.7 13.44


in gear times

2nd 20-40 2.5 2.5

2nd 30-50 2.0 1.9

2nd 40-60 2.3 2.4


3rd 50-70 2.9 2.6

4th 50-70 4.1 3.0

5th 50-70 7.4 4.9

6th 50-70 errr 10.1


3rd 70-90 4.2 ----

4th 70-90 4.5 3.5

5th 70-90 6.6 4.4

etc

those 2nd gear times are quite telling and show the stippp starting to lag at the 40-60.



[Edited by mattstant - 10/23/2003 3:12:44 PM]