hoskib

iTrader: (1)

really need to get out more,but i was wondering why the massive difference between the wrx and turbo 2000? guessing the engine and management have to cope with the lower octane fuel,but if that is the case why has the P1 got the same bhp as the stiV5(?) it's based on even after it has been played with to suit this country?
any thoughts at all?
cheers

wanted

So you can spend more money moding them

Turbohot

LOL!

greasemonkey

Partly a marketing decision, and partly a reflection of the fact that Japanese road conditions are different, and that we have lower quality pump fuel.

Correct in large part.

It hasn't. An STi5 running on 100RON fuel would in practice produce noticeably more power than a P1 running Opti, despite what the figures may say.

Cars can't legally be sold in Japan with outputs greater than 280ps (276bhp), so the manufacturers with cars that produce more power than that just lie on the official spec sheets. A standard STi5 Type R produces in excess of 290bhp on proper fuel.

While the P1 has the same fuel map, the knock correction is considerably more active, so under real-world conditions, there'd be an immediately noticeable power difference between an STi5 on Jap fuel and a P1 on Opti, even if you forgot about all the other differences like gearing, weight and so-on.

MISS SCOOBY STI

"A standard STi5 Type R produces in excess of 290bhp on proper fuel."

Heyhey, u just made my day!!! I've got a 1998 Type R STI, but only had less than 3 months, & since I seem to be followed everywhere by my fans with the strange coloured go faster stripes on their vehicles, I've obviously been a good girl . Been to the 1/4 mile strip though so I know it's f@#king fast!!!
What exactly do u mean by "proper fuel" though? (we only have one place selling Optimax here & that's only been open a month!, so not very knowledgeable about that stuff)

[Edited by MISS SCOOBY STI - 10/17/2003 1:31:08 AM]

Neilo

Even more amazing is the fact that the US cars have the same power rating as us (in some cases more, i think their STI has 300 standard) yet they run them on 91 Octane fuel (and thats their PREMIUM!!)

I have no idea how they get the figures, might as well run it on cooking oil...

Neilo

Whoops double post!

[Edited by Neilo - 10/17/2003 2:07:48 PM]

greasemonkey

I mean Japanese market fuel - what these engines were designed to run on. Don't want to scare you unduly, but these cars have a nasty habit of going bang if run on our fuel, so you need to do something about it sooner rather than later.

Running on "normal" UK unleaded is a quick route to disaster, so just don't. Either get it remapped for UK Opti/Super, or use Optimax plus the correct amount of good (i.e. NF) octane booster. Fitting a KnockLink is also strongly recommended.

BTW, Neilo, although the figures for USDM and UK appear to indicate the same power levels, there have been a number of reports from people who've driven cars in the 'States that they're not in fact as quick as what we have. Thus it would seem that the figures alone again don't tell the full story.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/17/2003 2:44:36 PM]

Gridlock Mikey

greasemonkey You're not normally one to come out with mad scare mongery type statements of that magnitude
I thought scoobynet had moved away from these sweeping statements.
I'm sure we all know of people with imports that run their cars on "normal" unleaded a few mods etc and the cars are fine, just not ragged around 24/7.
The higher octane fuel may help to look after the engine but just cos you don't use it doesn't mean that you are going to have a disaster
Wise words monkey, just a tad heavy handed I feel

Mikey

Neilo

Greasemonkey, fair do's, its just that i was in the states the other week and the impreza ad came on TV, claiming 0-60 in 5.4 and whatnot....

I cant believe that they would be anywhere near what we have though running on chip fat.

greasemonkey

Indeed I don't. If I do then, there's probably a good reason. I read Miss Scooby's post that as there was only one Opti garage in her area, she'd been using "something else" (not necessarily SUL), hence the wording of my response.

I'm sure we do, but that's a bit like saying you've smoked for 40 years and don't have lung cancer. We also know of several cars that have blown up expensively as a result of being run on incorrect fuel. BTW, you don't necessarily have to "rag" a det-prone car to bring it on. Just running tall can do it.

I'd much rather scare someone into running Opti plus booster than understate the urgency of the situation and see them posting about a melted engine. Don't forget we've had people blow engines on the way home from picking up their new car after filling it with "Premium" unleaded! While it could well be that the car was already knackered, tempting fate by running on the wrong fuel is not the best way to proceed.

It means you are much more likely to have a disaster. The Japanese ECU's simply don't have sufficient knock correction built into them to protect the engine adequately when run on UK "supermarket" fuel.

The STi 5 is far too close to the limit for comfort in these circumstances, hence the urgency of my previous post.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 10/17/2003 3:37:53 PM]

Gridlock Mikey

Like I said grease, it's not that what you said was incorrect, it was how it was said. If the thread wasn't for the benefit of a newbie, then it wouldn't have alarmed me.
This person is now gonna be driving the next few miles until they get optimax/ob/knocklinks etc , worrying that their scoob is about to fail. Paranoid about every surge and pop and rumble. They don't need to be if they are driving normally.
I think I would have phrased your response something like:
" In my experience, the car is more prone to detonation (See Search) the lower the grade of fuel that you use. Personally I like the security of using x,y and z as it reduces the chances of damage"
Enough info there, doesn't scare anyone and also shows newbies where to get information for them to make up thier own minds.
I do get a bee in my bonnet about this sort of thing because I shat myself for the first 3 months of scoob ownership, paranoid because I had no choice but to believe and absorb everything on SN. I then learnt that not every scoob has engine failiure when not wrapped in cotton wool!
Anyways, no offence intended, just saying me bit

Mikey <MY00 UK Decat ITG Dawes NO Knocklink 58,000 miles >

johnfelstead

They dont run chip fat fuel in the USA. The octane numbers in the USA are based on PON values (MON+RON/2) so you cant compare values. Premium in the USA is 93PON, which is the equivilant to 97RON.

The USDM STi is faster than a UK spec STi, by quite some margin. It's a much better car and has the DCCD-A transmition plus BBS magnesium wheels, it's very similar to a spec C, but has a torquey 2.5T engine. It costs £19K too!

johnfelstead

You should never run a Japanese spec STi on 95RON. 97RON is fine for just tootling around, but if you are going to be loading it up, even for short bursts you need optimax. If you decat An STi or use it very hard, then you need to add booster to SUL/Optimax unless you have it remapped.

you will find the STi5 and P1 have identical knock correction/ignition maps. The P1 has a more active knock correction though, as the STi has its knock sensitivity reduced to allow it to produce more power on 100RON fuel.

Unlike a UK Turbo, the P1 and STi5 have efectively one base set of ignition maps, a UK turbo has a diferent map that it switches to when it detects you have a low octane 95RON fuel in the car, because of this you should never use anything but SUL or better in a P1 IMHO.

If you decat a P1 you must get it remapped to be sure it is safe, as unmapped decated STi5/6/P1's produce big det spikes which could kill your engine. These particular cars also have a rather sensitive MAF sensor (all MY99/00 do) so if you install an aftermarket cone filter or oiled panel filter you are going to kill the MAF sensor, which will leave you with a lean mixture, which again can kill the engine.

Like most things on these cars, do your homework and use quality fuel, maintanance routines and you wont have a problem, start playing with them and using poor fuel and you are increasing your risks significantly.

sti-spec-a

jdm cars r quicker than uk lots of components r diffrent open the bonnet of a uk turbo 2000 twice the weight of a jdm wrx Suspension components r alloy on jdm Final drive is UK 3.6 JDM WRX 3.9 or 4.1 JDM WRX RA 4.4 As for the engines blowing my belief is its the fuel pump It can supply enough pressure at high rpm it finds it difficult to supply the actual volume of fuel required To remedy this i thoroughly recomend fitting an uprated fuel pump about 180 pounds jdm cars have the 180 kmh limiter on them so they r intended as "blast up through the gears" not flat at 160

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

johnfelstead,

got me worried talking about oiled panel filters killing your MAF/car,i've had an itg panel in my car (MY99) for a couple of years now, should i change it for a drier panel? if so can you guys recommend one? bit of a **** cos i bought the panel after being told i could put it in and forget about it (i have it out to remove the crap off it every now and again but its still gloopy as hell) am i driving a ticking time bomb or is it not that bad?
cheers

johnfelstead

I would not use an oiled filter on an MY99/00 car, the MAF's are too fragile. The problem with MAF failures is its a gradual decline in performance, so you dont always notice them going.

You can use an OEM filter from an STi5, available via scoobymania, these flow enough air for at least 320BHP and filter properly.

New MAF's cost around £75, i would either get it checked with a select monitor/Delta Dash by a competent subaru specialist or just put a new one in and swap the filter.

martyrobertsdj

iTrader: (1)

Things to consider when looking at US cars 0-60 times and power outputs....

I think US miles are a bit shorter than UK miles

and

Each US BHP is a bit less than a UK one, so for example 290 US BHP might be 280 UK BHP

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!!

Marty

Boro

iTrader: (1)

[Edited by Boro - 10/19/2003 5:37:12 PM]

BOB.T

Jza

And when you do, and you change your oil religiously, warm the car up properly - ensure everything is tip top.... they still blow up don't they John

Fact is - even with all the precautions in the world - if its going to go pop its going to go pop isn't it

Jza

Wilster

Its probably more closely related to how hard the thing is driven

Nezz10

Arent the Jap engines different internally as well? The guys at Powerstation said mine produced good power for a UK cause it has hydraulic lifters (whats that?).