Harry_Boy

The annual Which? car reliability survey, for what it's worth.

THE WHICH? Car reliability survey, published today, reveals that not one German brand made it into the 'Best' or the 'Good' categories.

The survey looked at breakdowns (or failures to start) experienced over a 12 month period by owners of cars up to two years old. Nearly 33,000 Which? members took part in the survey.

Seven brands made it into the 'Best Category. Mercedes, which in the last two years has been the only European brand that has made it into the top group for overall reliability has this year dropped further than any other manufacturer. It has dropped two sections into 'Average'.

Most and Least reliable makes In brackets is the number of cars of that brand in the survey.

BEST:
Honda (1,707)

Hyundai (227)

Lexus (191)

Mazda (599)

Nissan (1,719)

Smart (51)

Toyota (2,105)

Three brands - Daihatsu (75), Ford (4,173) and Suzuki (192) - are listed in the GOOD section.

Sixteen brands are listed in the AVERAGE section - Audi (911), BMW (1,412) Chrysler (149), Daewoo (287), Isuzu (45), Jaguar (344), Jeep (102), Kia (95), Mercedes-Benz (1,126), Mitsubishi (320), Porsche ( 38), Proton (78), Saab (445), Seat (387), Skoda (528) and Subaru (292).

In the POOR category are - Alfa Romeo (199), Citroen (1,175), Fiat (707), Land Rover (490), MG (136), Peugeot (2,069), Renault (2,174), Rover (1,425), Vauxhall (2,949), Volkswagen (2,677) and Volvo (1,000).

There again, who on here actually reads Which????

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Ford in good must have been a mis print mine's a pile of sh!te that's always broken

Paul

Harry_Boy

Me too Paul - sold a Ka that was disintegrating after 30,000 miles.

VW in poor - blows the 'Few things in life...' myth apart!

ski

My Neighbours fiesta is barely a year old and he has had countless problems.He is a ford man but even he says its crap.

Mungo

My Ford Focus was crap. My Scoob has been fine - never let me down at least.

CataIunya

Didn't a car program top gear gti or sommat did a similar survey over 3 years or sommat about all aspects and the impreza came late teens i think out of 100 or so...

Toonman1

"My Ford Focus was crap"

So was ours (dealers too). No hassles with 5 Imprezas (from new), so far.

Also, it has to be said, this is the organisation that said all CD players sounded the same (circa 1988), as they all conformed to the Red Book (so they HAD too). Morons...

Toonman1

"late teens i think out of 100 or so..."

Impreza - JD Power Survey winner in '97 and '98, plus Subaru had the best dealers. Weren't the Legacy and the Forester in the top 15 as well?

Had 3 Imprezas prior to '98 and had 2 since; nothing's changed that I can see.

Cheers

douglasb

As far as J D Power went, from about '98 to '01 it was a Subaru One/Two with Impreza/Legacy changing places at the top. Last year (I think) Lexus/Honda/Mazda did a whole lot better. IIRC, the Legacy was only about twelfth and the Impreza around thirty (out of about 170 models).

The J D Power summing up of dealers was along the lines of "most Subaru owners like their dealers, but they tend to be expensive. Fortunately, dealings with them only tend to happen when a service is required."

Doug

Toonman1

In the UK:

The Legacy was No 1 in 2000, Impreza 2nd and Forester 8th. Subaru were top make, as in '97 and '99. If Ford are so good now, they certainly weren't 3 years ago, with their top car being the Puma in 63rd place!

The Impreza was number one in '97 and '99 but by 2001 had dropped out of the top 20 (Legacy too). The Forester was 14th in 2001, and Subaru were 8th overall.

Cheers

Harry_Boy

Seems that the JD Power results are based more on a perception of costs than actual reliability.

However, the Which? reports seems to be focused (pun NOT intended) on reliability issues. Which is strange, as few Scoobynetters have significant problems with late model Imprezas (or Legacys and Foresters for that matter).

greasemonkey

Could this, I wonder, be due to the fact that the average Scoobynet reader has a touch more mechanical sympathy than the average numpty?

Thee, me and the other reader will likely know the value of regular oil checks/changes, careful warm up/down procedure, considerate gearchange technique and so-on.

Average Which? reader, on the other hand, is I suspect Mr Clueless Average, who thinks nothing of b*ll*cking his car when cold, misses the odd gear, only get the fluids checked/changed at service time, and is probably more likely to use the cheapest garage he can find, rather than one that regularly works on Imprezas and knows them with his eyes shut.

...Or am I being unfair?

Toonman1

With the odd exception, the only horror stories I hear about Scoobs, either come from folk who've modded their car to produce a 1000bhp and then complain IM won't "honour" the warranty, or others who have probs with older cars.

It's not so long ago someone was whinging n here about how unreliable their '95 Turbo was, and they'd never own a Scoob again. It's an 8 year old car for God's sake! Mind, last time I saw my 1st Classic ('94 on an L), it'd done over 100K, was still on the original clutch, engine etc etc. As Greasmonkey says, the better type of Scooby owner.

Cheers

Leslie

Greasemonkey has got it in one!

Les

The Gilly

well as it stands I miss my Ford having a nightmare with my scooby

Harry_Boy

The main consolation seems to be that Mitsubishis are only 'Average' as well......

ozzy

toonman,

Your kinda right about the warranty claims with modified cars, but if I change my exhaust and a wheel bearing fails, I'll expect IM to honour that claim. If I fit a Superchips and my engines blows up then I won't.

Most Scooby's I know of are driven hard and mines been almost 100% reliable and has never seen me left stranded anywhere. For the abuse most of them take I think they are pretty strong.

Of course paintwork and interior build quality is pretty ****, but I can't fault mine mechanically. In fact the most unreliable part of my car is the brake pads and discs

Of course all those rice boys who mod the cars and just pose around @ 30mph (with the odd little adrenalin rush) could push the reliablility figures back up for us

Stefan

Treacle

I don't know how valid this type of survey is . There are bound to be folks whose cars completely dissagree with the surveys results. I'd just be happy in the knowledge that your car is working well, and pity the folks whose cars give up the ghost after 12 miles (someone on another thread).Have to agree that people on this bbs look after their cars better than Mr/Mrs average.

pbee

you also have to factor in the "reader" sector of which magazine. all older middle class Honda drivers AKA, My parent in laws that even though their Honda CRV has had countless problems they still go on about its reliability, because it hasnt broken down the garage finds the problems at service time.

WTF. perception isnt always the same as reality

Toonman1

Ozzy

I've never heard of them not honouring claims like that. Also got to say the paint and interior build on my 5 have been good. You want crap paint - buy a Seat Leon Cupra. You want trim that rattles and falls off - by a Seat Leon Cupra!

Cheers

flat4

"what if everything in life could be as reliable as a Volkswagen"

......or not as the case would be

Toonman1