Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Tootling down A1(M) this evening @ exactly 70mph & I notice a police car come chomping up the outside lane well in excess of 110 mph in my guess. He had NO LIGHTS whatsoever on - thats sides/main/beacons or anything [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] He was in a silver livery (Cambs Police) and was hard to make out against the road with the overcast sky as well.

As he went past, I flashed him because he should've had some indication that he was there/a police car on duty.

As I flashed, half the cover from the police lights (which weren't on ) came off & smacked into the front of PTMW! Blue & white plastic shattered in all directions

I hit the lights again and he noticed something had gone wrong and after about 1/4 mile when he'd slowed down suficiently he pulled over. I pulled in after him.

It would appear that he'd been going so fast that the wind had lifted under the light casing & pulled it off. It may have been damaged before. Fortunately, damage to PTMW! was very minor - cracked headlamp protector & various plastic scratches that "should" rub out & a v.small dent on the bonnet.

He was quite apologetic (not surprisingly) and I made the point of telling him that he'd been driving too fast without lights on (ie taking the p1$$ 'cos I'd've got nicked if I'd done that) "Oh - we were trying to catch someone up" -

There's a bit more damage than I saw at the side of the road (dent & some scratches), so I might get it checked out & quoted

But whats the law on this? Unroadworthy vehicle? No lights on? Any ideas?

PeteD

Dunno but that sort of thing really gets my goat!!!! Always flying round with no lights or sirens on. I gather you got all his details???

stevem2k

go down the station and report it.

mart360

Evnin all!!!

before the hang em high and moral rightoeous squad unleash..

the way it stands is...

when the police are on duty... speed limits do not apply to them when carrying out there normal duties, however should an incedent occur, obviously the speed at the time will be taken into account... and for whats its worth area cars observe all 30/40 areas quite rigerously..

if the officer in question has provided you with his warrant No.

and admitted liability, you would be advised to visit the nick to speak with the duty inspector to corroberate what happened.

As you were not at fault, there should be no problem in getting the magic wagon repaired..

HOWEVER... if you accelerated to 110 to catch him and point out the error of his speeding ways,, you may be liable to prosecution!!! this has happened before, ther is a legal presidence on this some where

I have been in a similar situation, (traffic incedent) some time ago (cept i was in the police car... Just visitn mind) the officer in question offered his appologies and warrant no, however the other party just appologised and drove off!!!

hope this helps

Mart

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Mart

Didn't accelerate to catch him but headlights & HID spots kinda catch attention when flashed repeatedly

What about the no lights situation? I'd been overtaken 5 mins previously by another squad car going slower but all blues/twos & alternate headlights... So whats the score there?

(I accordingly accept that he's likely to have been on a shout & the variety of other flashing lights seen after my incident)

I would've thought that is HIGHLY in their interests to advertise their pressence going at that speed, 'cos it helps stop silly Joe Public moving out into their lane without looking..

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Puff,
I have raised this before, and I got told the reason no lights two/tones etc, is because they did not want to alert the car they were after, I agree that they should have them on at that speed.
Cheers
Colin

Scoob99

iTrader: (1)

Puff also try and see if you can get an answer from the five-0 boys website.
Cheers
Colin

itsajapthing

ROFL PTMW you could of made him book himself!!!!
If you had recorded his speed for a certain time frame or in between two bridges etc,thats according to the wilkinsons road traffic book(the one they throw at you in court!)its been done before you have to have your speedo calibrated after the event but its a formality........

PMSL at thought of officer being asked wheres the fire by a scoob driver+writing his own ticket......shame it never happened maybe next time

G

JohnMcC

yeah, you should have inspected the rest of his car - get the old tape measure out for the number plate for example, check the glass for illegal tints


I appreciate the argument for trying to keep a low profile, but surely when travelling at that speed some indication of who they are needs to be given to innocent drivers - surely they would rather let the crim get away (for now hopefully) than cause a mass pile up?


edited for spelling like a divvy.



[Edited by JohnMcC - 7/28/2003 9:44:02 PM]

mart360

Update!!

without flying the flag either way,,,

having been on some high speed runs with area traffic officers,

I can honestly say that there standard of driving puts most other drivers to shame, to give you an idea of what is involved, have you evered wondered why there are normally two officers in the area cars..

1 is the driver and thats all he does period
2 is the radio / ops man hes the one who nicks you checks, the licence etc..

the amount of concentration needed to sustain there patrols, means that they only do 1 hour stints.. they concentrate that much!!!!

you try giving a running commentry for one hour whilst going through the meon vally onto the motorway and back into built up areas whilst driving/ following marked vehicles..

I can see and appreciate both sides of the argument?

do they advertise there presence and all the speeders slowdown!!

or do the use stealth and catch some people (unfair)

personally i dont agre to the round town unmarked revenue vans

however on the motorway, if you arnt that observant then you deserve to get caught!!

mart

JRW

In between all the safety, police moral issues and I agree he should have had his lights on, he has tecnically been involved in a proximity POLACC (police accident). A Supervisor should have come to the scene where you both should have remained if safe to do so and the officer may be breathalised depending on the circumstances. The police are definately liable for the cost of repairs and you need to report this to the station nearest to where it happened and don't be fobbed off with any story about it doesn't need reporting. Police vehicles generally are not insured and are underwritten from the Forces own budget so they have got the funds to pay out. Any other queries post your reply and I'll let you know.

Little Miss WRX

Puff you tart, you'll pull anything.

Hope you get PTMW! back to it's full glory again!

[Edited by Little Miss WRX - 7/28/2003 10:47:32 PM]

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Mart

No wishing to be a pain or to totally contradict your post as I realise the valuable service done by the police.

For this time...

I'd been on the A1(M) for 3 minutes, during which time I had not seen another car (unmarked) proceeding at a speed that would be considered excessive. Even allowing for difference in speed, I should have seen someone if they were chasing/persuing.

I had seen another marked car 5 minutes before on the road that led to the A1(M) but as stated above, they were flashing for England.

I saw a number of police cars afterwards coming from the opposing direction to a point off the A1(M) - all had flashing lights/

The car that zoomed past me was not chasing anyone but he was going quickly to the location of an incident, so why not be lit up?

I did see him, but it was hard given the road, traffic and light conditions, so because he wasn't actively chasing someone, surely he should have made himself like a belusha beacon?

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

LMW

PTMW! has no defined sex - please remember

Little Miss WRX

Better?

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Thank you

Turbohot

Law on this?Irresponsible police,Danger to padestrians and other road users!Nick the Bastids !Come on preachers!Start your Biblebash!!
'ing joke on the road!

toplad!

Sorry to hear about the damage Puff. Did`nt you have the back of your wagon damaged recently aswell?

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

I recall more than one incident in the newspapers ( so may not be totally true! ) where the drivers of emergency services - Fire Brigade, Ambulance, Police etc. have been sucessfully prosecuted because they were breaking the law of the land - exceeding the posted speed limits - in persuit of their duties. Usually these did involve major incidents / fatalities etc. mainly at junctions, but even though it is expected / advised to move over for these vehicles when they are lit up and on an emergency call, they STILL have to obey the traffic regulations UNLESS in a life or death situation or on a definite call.

The emergency services still have to give due care to other road users even if on a call.

I work with a magistrate, and he has quite often stopped by a police car and gone over to it to point out a broken / failed light or their illegal parking ... which the police mutter and shuffle off quietly!

PG

I once broke down not far from where a speed car was operating so I ran up to the car and they agreed to take me to where I was going as long as I sat with them for a few more mins and looked out for the stolen car they thought may be passing
Anyhoo, it was one of the Rover 800 vitesse things so we started making our merry way along the road at 120 - 130 mph with them laughing away and just flashing (with main beam) cars out of the way !! irresposible but was fun at the time

jaf01uk

Well, I drive (and teach) emergency driving in a different branch of the 999 services and in our book (majority of which is straight from Roadcraft the police drivers manual) you have a standard of driving to maintain which states "Every vehicle shall be driven with care and consideration for other road users. At no time must it be driven in a manner, or at a speed likely to cause danger to another road user (including those near but not on the road" Phew!!
Basically with the polices history of fatal RTA's they should be lighting up and making everyone aware of their presence, if they are on a legitimate call they should have no problem with this, our accident rate is miniscule compared to the police and I put this down to use of full systems on all 999 calls,
Gary

[Edited by jaf01uk - 7/28/2003 11:56:32 PM]

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I fail to see how flashing blues would have allowed Puff to see them any easier in these circumstances....

It happended in the early part of a summer evening so in order to see the blues you would have to look directly at them. By the time you do this you will have seen the car anyway....

If you are checking your mirrors and not changing lanes carelessly then you will see a police car coming up the outside, whether it has blues on or not. (I make no mention of sirens as you won't hear them, nor be able to identify direction at high speed)

And as to suggest that the driver was careless?? I think its unfair that due to a mechanical part of the car, albeit plastic fails, that this means the driver is careless? Give me a break!

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Edited to say.....

Flashing your lights at a police car to give them your opinion on their actions is downright cheeky and asking for it, big time... IMHO

jaf01uk

Save you having to re read the original post!

scoobynutta555

Talizman if thats the case why cant i drive at that speed in my P1 without being pulled. And nothing will fall off of my car.

And i wouldnt say cheeky of him for flashing, i would have. After all if they were responding to an emergency why would they stop.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

You don't have to be repsonding to an emergency to drive fast you know..

Do you like cold chips?

talizman

iTrader: (1)

thanks jaf01uk, but I can read.

My point was.... how would the blue lights have attracted Puff's attention any earlier? Quite simply they wouldn't have.

At night in low level light..maybe... but not in the evening sunshine, no chance.

Therefore you can't argue that blue lights would have made a difference thats all.

We all know that as Scooby owners we should watch our rear view mirrors a lot.

Personally I always do, and if I see any car come flying up behind me, I always monitor it, just to be sure I'm not getting done....

I am particularily paranoid about unmarked Mercs and Beemers as my local police use them a lot and I've been pulled by the Merc so I don't see how anyone can realy gripe, it just sour grapes if you ask me cos they can speed and we can't.

BlueSimon

Answer to mart360.

/rant on

I live on a 40 mph road on a blind corner with 6! concealed entrances (of which ive been hit up the back at 40 mph while wait to turn in! which left my car like a banana) and the statement:

'and for whats its worth area cars observe all 30/40 areas quite rigerously..'

does not apply to at least two tossers in my local nick (in normal panda cars) doing ATLEAST 90 Mph responding (not chasing) even with blues and sirens you cant see or hear them comming (houses in way)

/Rant off

Simon

steve_nairn_sti

Would the police think twice about charging you for having a car in an unfit state of repair? I think not.

Your vehicle should be checked to ensure it is in a good state of repair before every journey. If you are CARELESS enough to travel at high enough speeds to cause plastics to fly off the car, you should be charged. End of.

Mungo

Talizman - you obviosuly can't read. Puff clearly stated that the sky was overcast, not "evening sunshine" as you put it.
Having the blues flashing certainly does attract your attention. And having the siren on makes you look for them, even if you can't immediately ascertain the direction.