StickyMicky

I didnt


£110 for a proper full on roll cage??
BARGIN!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2423427783&category=10 424&rd=1

now fitted to the rally slag, its madness!!

greasemonkey

With respect Micky, that's a million miles away from being a proper full-on roll cage. Not enough tube (and probably the wrong sort of tube too), and not nearly enough welding

Small point, but maybe worth mentioning, is that if you have the car this is in insured on a regular road car policy, you must tell your insurer about the cage, and many of them will want a little more from you in premium. Seems they think that having a cage fitted will encourage you to take silly risks or something like that.

StickyMicky

how can u say its not a proper cage?
ive been led to belive they used these ones for the type RA models in light motorsports?

anybody confirm?
all boltes etc etc are cover in the robber coating when fitted, except the floor ones

StickyMicky

also cany anybody help with supplying the door bars which were not included

the brackets are there theres just no bars to fit them

scoobydevil1

micky that is far from a proper rollcage and i have fitted a few .
to be honest the extra insurance will be more that it is worth, the extra protection you will get from that is next to none .
i would put it back on e-bay at£120.
we charge £800 for a full fitted group n roll cage which is suitable for rallying/ motorsport.
this includes the cage, fitting, all the padding ect.

just looked again at the pic, tube looks like one of those sit up frame abs things you get at gyms or from argos.
also if it bolts in what grade of bolt have you used?
and what are they made of?


[Edited by scoobydevil1 - 19/07/2003 07:40:24]

Richard Askew

ScoobyDevil1 - can you mail me spec and costs of a Group N cage please. 4 door UK car. Will be used for roadrallying, no stage use

Thanks

S.B.

Picture of cage in car.....


[Edited by S.B. - 19/07/2003 13:50:35]

Stringpants

Looking at the photo...I have the same piping under the kithen sink!!!

BOB.T

I think our sink piping is better!

Is that a Maestro/Montego above?

StickyMicky

hmm sumbody else has just told me thats its a proper STI RA roll cage

so me thinks its not sum cheap ****e abdomen workout tool
anyways
im happy with it
go play with your welder lol

johnfelstead

some of the very early RA's had a cage fitted at the factory, it is very tight fitting and is covered in a high density foam. That looks like one of them by the coating on the tubing.

I dont know the spec of the tubing, so cant comment if its legal for MSA events or not. It's probably around 8-10 years old.

StickyMicky

heres sum pics






is this the RA version?

greasemonkey

Either way it ain't going to make a lot of difference, to anything bar your insurance premium. Is there a label or anything else on it that identifies the tubing used, and are there any open tube ends that show whether or not the tubes are seamless?

StickyMicky

i see no open ends on the tubing

how can u say that a factory subaru cage is useless??
if it is what it looks like it is then i would bet a large amount of money that sti developed it for a good enough reason

this isnt a full on gravel rally car, this is my road car that gets use for drag strips and track days

looks perfect to me, although it seams im not as clued up on roll cages and sum of the people in this thread, the same people who think that STI dont have a clue either??

bizzare

Steve3drALS

Seing the incar pics it looks bloody good to me, why everone slating it?

StickyMicky

becuase there fackin gimps lol

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

It looks like a 6pt bolt in cage.

Interested in rear mounting point - is that to the rear turrets? The angle doesn't look to good in case of a roll, concertina/crush 'cos of angles/stresses. Front a bit but less so due to centre hoop & straighter front arms (less curvature).



BUT

its a damn-sight better than NO rollcage in the case of a track accident. The front looks reasonably sound and will offer a better degree of user protection in the case of a roll. MY to 00 seem to have weakish A-pillars which flatten quite readily. Therefore anything that offers greater protection is worthwhile.

I've got a 6pt cage to go in. Main differences over yours being rear-brace (like strutbrace but larger ) & diagonals.

My intention is to have the holes drilled & only use for track day action (no rear seat space!) & for that I don't mind spending 30 mins putting the thing in.

StickyMicky

at last sum sense

yes its bolted to the turrets, its hard work getting the rear seat back in, tho im asumeing that if it was for the motorsport cars then the rear seat wouldnt be present anyways

greasemonkey

Downer. Can you see any seams through the paint?

For starters, we don't know whether it is a factory cage. Secondly, where to start?. No attachment to the front bulkhead, no triangulation, bolted joints, the horrible bends on the A- and C- pillars, the attachment for the door bars (which you don't have anyway) is poorly placed. How much more do you need?

This cage would offer minimal extra protection in the event of a roll (it'd probably just bend to one side or the other), and, by offering the potential for broken bits of tubing or bolt heads flying round the cockpit, could concievably make things worse in the event of a bad ding.

I'd probably take that bet. Could well be that it's not an STi cage (is there any STi or Subaru branding on it?), and even if it is, it's a bad design that probably wasn't added to the car for much other than cosmetic reasons. For all you know it could have come with a big sticker on it saying "Not for competition use".

Why the need for the cage then?

What makes you so sure it's an STi cage? Either way, this is one of those times when good sense should overcome bravado. If enough of us are telling you that this cage is not a particularly worthwhile addition to your motor, it might not be a bad idea to think about what we're saying. If the sh*t ever does hit the fan, this thing could prove much more trouble than it's worth.

Not really.

StickyMicky

actualy the 30 mins to fit the thing could take a bit longer then that

it took me ages to fit this one as its sooo tight against the bodywork

the main center hoop was a complete nite mare, may be easier with the front seats removed tho, inside handles etc etc had to be removed
interior lighting was removed as well then replaced with screws missing so i can get them out if need be without removing the cage

sun visors are stuck where they are now as they cant fold back, i had removed them but 5 mins drive down the road in the sun begged me to refit them sumhow, so they are refitted minus a screw each side so i can "wiggle" them out if need be (after unbolting the front bars)

StickyMicky

NO!


so your saying if my car rolled then i would be better of without having massive tubing running around the roof
i dont think so

there is no branding on the cage that i have noticed, there is dabs of pink paint dotted around sum parts, like the sort of thing u find on say a factory spring or a wishbone or sumthing, i worked for a while building cars for nissan and these marks are quality checks preformed online by the prod ops

[quote]quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this isnt a full on gravel rally car, this is my road car that gets use for drag strips and track days
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Why the need for the cage then?
surely this will stiffen up the shell no end, surely this will help with handling a lot, surelly this will offer protection if i flip the car while ragging it around a tarmac track??

well i have been trying to find out about the type ra cage but im drawing blanks, i have been told from a few local scooby peeps that it is what i think it is, this is why i think what i do, this is in the above postings if u would like to re read them

i think all these quotes are very bizzare, im haveing a quote break while i goto a cruise

hows the welding lol


[Edited by StickyMicky - 19/07/2003 18:48:41]

johnfelstead

it took you 30 minutes to install? You have bolted it to the shell havn't you? Where has all the rubber padding gone? The genuine STi cages have a very tight fitting foam rubber padding.

johnfelstead

Insurance companies dont like roll cages inside road cars for a simple reason. If you roll the car/crash it you are more likely to suffer major head trauma's due to smashing your skull against a steel tube. Roll cages are designed for cars with solid mounted seats, full harnesses and ocupants wearing helmets.

Installing a roll cage in a road car that doesnt meet these criteria is pretty stupid IMHO. Thats why the Safety Devices cage system that Mike Peck pattented is such a good idea for trackday drivers.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

John

TBH I think he's saying it took longer than the 30 mins I said to install

I'm thinking of it as an RTRS system a la Mike, so once I've drilled the mounting points out the first time (so a longer install!), it'll probably take 30 mins in & 30 out each track day I do, which I am happy to live with for the increased protection offered.

(Harnesses, helmets, padding & maybe fixed seats as well)

johnfelstead

Ah, OK, thanks. Thought that was a bit quick for a cage install. LOL

Spoon

Double post.

[Edited by Spoon - 7/20/2003 11:41:53 AM]

greasemonkey

Yes, for the reasons John's already mentioned. Having unprotected metal tubing anywhere in the car is a downright bad idea. In a competition car it's the lesser evil as the cage actually works, and you're both helmeted and secured firmly in the seat. Even then, current rules stipulate the new FIA spec padding be fitted anywhere the helmet could come into contact to take some of the sting out of the impact.

There are also the two unsupported bends at the front that will crush if the A-pillar comes down, and the acute bend to the C-pillar that would do the same. The front of the cage would be slightly less unsafe if the door bars were on, but you don't have them...

You work for a company that designs and fits roll cages, or are you guessing?

Kinda odd for Subaru parts, no? Most structural parts actually have Subaru labels or stamps on them, and at the very least you should expect to see part numbers, or something that identifies the metal used for the tubing. Without knowing this, you simply can't trust it. For all you know it could be copper plumbing pipe underneath the paint.

Lol, no, not remotely. As mentioned earlier, it's not welded in, there are no triangles or diagonals in it, and it's not joined to the front bulkhead. As it stands it will add practically zero rigidity to the chassis as it can flex both longitudinally and laterally.

No. If anything the extra weight of the metal above the centres of gravity and roll would make the handling a fraction worse - albeit that the difference is so small you'd be unlikely to notice.

No. Under normal circumstances, when the car rolls, all the weight will be taken by one side of the roofline at first. Because your cage isn't triangulated, the entire cage will distort laterally, pushing it in towards the driver/passenger, depending on what side the impact occurs.

The A-pillar is also likely to crush, and, thanks to the design and the lack of door bars in the cage, the bends at vent level will tighten, pushing that part of the cage in towards the occupant too.

If you can't be sure, you can't rely on it. Even under ideal circumstances, it's a compromised design further compromised by the fact that it's missing two of its integral parts (the door bars).

Once was enough thanks. If you want to play games with your own safety, it's your life to play with. However, if someone you carry as a passenger ends up being injured by this cage, you may not feel quite so full of yourself.

Ah, that explains a lot. I'm sure your friends will be very jealous of your new addition. Incidentally, you shouldn't really be driving this car on the road until you've informed your insurer of this modification. If you have a claim and they find a roll cage which they don't know about, you're almost certain to find you won't be covered. The fact that they will probably want to charge you more for having the cage in the car will probably give you the biggest idea how much safer they think it'll make it

Fine, thank you. In fact, the couple of times I've been hanging from my belts waiting for speccies to push it back onto its wheels, I had plenty of time to think about how good it was. Hope you don't get to find out the limitations of yours the hard way.

[Edited by greasemonkey - 7/20/2003 4:05:05 PM]

Spoon

GREEN SCOOBY

hi stickymickey.dont know anything about roll cages but want to ask what that thing is on the top of your roof! another interior lamp maybe,just curious mate.

scoobydevil1

have to concur with most of the above , i would never fit a cage to a road car if the driver was not going to wear a helmet , would you like to smash your head against a steel bar at 70mph?( you my be lucky and have real metal bars)thourght not .

as for the weilding ,for me it is the only way to fit a roll cage then it becomes part of the car, bolts are crap for this job and you never told me what grade you used and what they were made of this is very important as they will take a lot of the stresses in am impact

do yourself and your passangers a favour m8 ,swollow your pride and take it out.
all these comments may be negitive and not what you want to hear but they are said cause peeps care about you .
do you want to be a title of a post?
"subaru driver killed by dodgy roll cage"?