RB5Caterham

This may have been asked before but your views are appreciated.

Currently have an RB5 standard spec and looking to move up a model, would like to go for a P1 but seem to still cost loads to buy. What is a STi V5 like compared to the P1?

Thanks in advance.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I take it you mean an STi5 type R?
Well, you wont get abs but you will get climate control, you will need to run a 5 on super unleaded plus octane booster (recommended for the P1 too) and they are going to be around 5k cheaper than a P1..... (you can do lots for that sort of money )
The P1 on the other hand has a little more road presence and a different suspension setup, an extendable warranty and a dealer network...... (also has 17 inch alloys as standard over the sti's 16 inch).

Tony

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

P1 DEFO

Still the best lookin scoob IMO

and yes fully covered by the dealer network

also cos its a UK car you will not need to worry about things like SUL + boosters it will run quite happily on Normal unleaded.

chrisp

IMHO would not run a P1 on NUL.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Steve,
The P1 is mapped to run only super unleaded fuel (and above ) running unleaded will kill the engine and now that subaru uk are cracking down on engine warranty claims (ie wrong fuel type......)
Still recommended to run a P1 on SUL plus octane booster to be on the safe side (even though sul should be enough).

Tony

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

Why?

if its a UK car (and not modified) it should run on standard UK fuel surely

however optimax would be my choice

chrisp

Do search for P1 and normal unleaded.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The map by Prodrive was designed for 97ron fuel (same as a PPP) but this is the MINIMUM (as stated in the handbook for a P1) fuel that can be used.
(i think they stuck another page in the back )
But then again, if you can afford a P1 then your going to put the best fuel in her anyway

Tony

Steve001

iTrader: (7)

only the best for my MY01

if this is the case for the P1 then Subaru must have arranged a back-hander from the Petrol Co's

(bloo*y hell its hot in this flame suit )

Gordo

P1 is recommended to be only run on super unleaded - it says in the manual (from memory, i haven't looked at it in a while!) that you can put normal unleaded in if necessary. Best avoided but I have put it in mine a couple of times (sod all choice in Scotland where they don't really sell super yet) and it's fine but does reduce the power noticeably.

have not but boosters in it - is it worth it if it's mapped for 97 RON? the Jap imports, I know, need it as they're mapped higher but will it make much difference in the P1? Like it's not fast enough

Gordo

scoobynutta555

theres loads of old threads on here about P1 and sti5typeR.

I used to own an sti5typeR and now have a P1. It all depends on what u want to do with the car really.

In MY situation it made sense to me to change cars to the P1. But that wont be the same for everybody. The typeR, although very similar to a P1, is very different! The drive is totally different, theres a power split of 66% rear and 34% front, which makes the car more like a rear wheel drive, and this is especially more noticable in the wet. There if a diff control on the type R where u can adjust the handling apsects, but i found this a pain.

Price wise the gap has narrowed between the cars. Sti5s are around say 14k and a p1 18k (as an average). Each car has its own extras that the other one doesnt. The big pull for the P1 thougth is the warranty, u can have up to a 5 year warranty on these cars from Subaru.

So it all boils down to what you want from a car really. If youre used to rear wheel drive or like the traits or rear handling youll love the typeR. If youre more into motorways etc youll b better off with the P1 as youll tank about 190 miles in an sti and about 250 in a P1

pbee

Back to the original question.

the p1 has done a lost a lot of its value, and probably will not lose much more, as it is sought after and well respected. and has more road prescence, imho

the sti 5 on the other hand is very similiar in spec, but much cheaper, but in the long run will decrease in value faster than the p1.

factor in insurance and running cost differences too. i think the sti 5 is shorter geared so will be less economical on runs.

if moneys no object p1 all the way the sti 5 is still a great car as well

vindaloo

P1 for the warranty (and it can be extended for another 2 years).

Dunno if there's what I'd call a 'standard' STi V5 type R as with no warranty issues and fuel octane problems, I think they get modded as soon as the tyres touch UK soil (or tarmac hopefully :-)

Now may be the time to get a P1. As has been stated recently, they're getting on for three years old and a lot of company car leases expire in that timeframe.

Vindaloo.

raggy

You can run a P1 on NUL it says so in the handbook. It says 95 ron mimimum. Personally if the car is standard ie: exhaust with cats etc... it shouldn't be a problem. I don't do this however, mine always gets the good stuff.
I suppose if you get stuck with the option of nul only it wouldn't damage anything as long as you drive sensibly.
Big advantage of the P1 over the sti v5 is it's a UK prodrive developed car, where the sti v5 is not. Prices reflect this.

what would scooby do

P1 is a de-tuned and "nannied"/compromised Type R anyways.

ABS is ok on fiestas and civics for those people who can't drive

Guess which one I have

S.B.

doaney

Why not get a normal STiv5 - no need for the type-R. With an Stiv5, 4 door in my case, you get climate control and ABS Use the spare cash to get yourself some 18" alloys and a few other mod's if you find one that hasn't already been modified. Mine came with 17" alloys but probably not standard.

scoobynutta555

how is a P1 a "de tuned" typeR?

Gedi

I have driven both and much prefer the TypeR which is what I have now.

Its much more raw than the P1 which seems to have been wrapped in cotton wool a little. The TypeR is a bit quicker through the box too as it uses shorter ratios.

edited to add, I don't know what all this warranty thing is about. I have a 2 year warranty on my TypeR that is extendable at any time to any degree.

[Edited by Gedi - 18/07/2003 16:09:12]

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Gedi,
The warranty on the P1 is considerably better than an after market warranty which you may find only covers upto the first 1k (engines are 4-5k).
As for the NUL use in a P1..... its SUL only! (the same with the 22B type UK and the STi type UK) and running NUL will lead to det and a dead engine (they are downtuned a little, but still need higher octane fuelling).
A standard uk car can run nul, but even then i wouldnt trust it that much (i run mine on optimax ) but it does depend on what your after.....
Type r V5 will (supposedly) produce 300ps on 100/102 ron fuel (probably the 102 ron) where as the P1 will produce 276bhp on 97 ron fuel (but ive seen some push over 300bhp with sul and no mods!)
John Banks is probaby the person to talk about the ecu to, but if you have a JDM car then especially a phase 2 engined model will need sul and octane booster, the ecu's dont have much in the way of knock correction, and considering that the P1 has the same ecu......
A different ratio'd gearbox over the STi5 type R also (as mentioned) but with abs rather than the DCCD? and better suspension for the UK, the P1 is probably a better all round car for the uk (unless you can use the DCCD which i know of only one person who's really got that right eh John ).
If you want value for money and a car that you can still make money on then go for the P1, if you want something a little rawer (and id suggest you need to be a better driver than most i see out there to handle one of these ) then id go for a Type R (id suggest getting some very good tyres due to our damp weather ).
The Octane booster is a must though (for the Type R) and can be sourced from several places (scoobymania springs to mind ) and its pretty cheap (2.20 per bottle)

Tony

vindaloo

AFAIK (which isn't much!)

The warranty thing is that P1's are sold as UK cars and many still have the balance of the Subaru/IM new car warranty outstanding. This can be extended for a further two years (which would take mine up to December 2005).


Vindaloo.

DanTheMan

I believe the P1 was just a de-spec'd version of the STi5-R cobbled together for the UK market
take the TypeR and:
Remove the STi suspension
Remove the close ratio gearbox
Remove the waterspray
Remove the adjustable diff
Remove the aluminium suspension arms
Add ABS
make a few cosmetic changes, throw in a proper warranty and you have a P1

Now I think we need Mr Felstead to sing the praises of the variable diff


Flame suit on !

StiShrek

get your ecu remapped on the type r for shell optimax and bobs your uncle

not driven a P1 but the Type R acceleration thump in your back from 1st to second still amazes me and unwary passengers

Type R wil be 4-6 grand cheaper so lots of extra cash for mods

try to buy with a tracker already fitted since most insurance companies want one

been running mine for 2 yrs and encountered zero problems

SCOOBY R

I prefer the Type-R to the P1 hence why Ive just gone out and brought one.

I like the short ratio gearbox mainly. How often do you need to go at 155 down a private road? For me 140mph is plenty as most of my driving will be below 100mph anyway and thats where the Type-R is king over the P1.

Gixerman

"I prefer the Type-R to the P1 hence why Ive just gone out and brought one."

....and a very nice one at that!!!lol

chrisp

P1s were launched in 1999 although some werent registered until 2001. The majority are over 3 years old if you buy one over three years old then the warranty would have had to been extended by the previous owner otherwise it would be out of warranty. AFAIK you have to buy the warranty to follow on directly from the 3 year warranty.

scoobynutta555

As its been mentioned its all down to personal choice and what u want out of a car. Hope this isnt developing into a long and boring re hash of all the other previous p1 versus typeR debate.

Re suspension, AFAIK its just the springs that have been changed on the P1, which in doing so made the car a lot less skittish on out less than perfect roads. As for the other things that have been left off the P1 that the sti has, i cant say i miss any of them, the water spray is not much use as the rate it was emptied was astonishing.

And i dunno whats wrong with your typeR that it only does 140 mph, mine easily did 150 when the limiter was taken off.

I have been lucky enough to have lived with both cars for a long period, so i hope im coming across as impartial.

Edit to say i suppose i miss the quickshift

[Edited by scoobynutta555 - 18/07/2003 20:11:31]

Gedi

running my TypeR on optimax only produces no det at all.

lights up the bottom light on the knocklink at high revs, which I am assuming is just down to engine noise. (and yes the knocklink is working....tested it yesterday....heh)