Audi Quattro / Subaru AWD, who copied who??
16 July 2003, 05:14 PM
#1
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It there any connection between the Audi Quattro four wheel drive system and AWD on Subaru.
It was a remark passed by Audi salesman, nice car (Subaru WRX) they uses our four wheel drive system.
So who copied who??
It was a remark passed by Audi salesman, nice car (Subaru WRX) they uses our four wheel drive system.
So who copied who??
16 July 2003, 05:55 PM
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Haven't most Subaru's had permanent 4WD since the late 70's? I know Audi were the first to use it in the WRC in the 80's but I doubt if Subaru were the 1st in the production world, even if they predated Audi. How about Land Rover for example?
You should have asked the salesman why Audi doesn't use permanent 4WD now?
Matt
You should have asked the salesman why Audi doesn't use permanent 4WD now?
Matt
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16 July 2003, 06:35 PM
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You should have asked the salesman why Audi doesn't use permanent 4WD now?
16 July 2003, 06:40 PM
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mutant_matt: I thought they did on Quattro models
http://www.audi.co.uk/experience/techdesign/quattro.jsp
I quote:
In 1980, Audi turned a corner: Quattro was born
The cornering and wet road-holding of Audi’s permanent four-wheel drive system is universally recognised as a phenomenon. On the day of its launch, quattro created shock-waves throughout the motoring world. In one fell swoop, it redefined the public’s concept of a high-performance road car and sent other manufacturers scuttling back to their drawing boards.
Quite simply, quattro is one of the most important motoring inventions ever - the kingpin around which automotive design turned and headed off in a totally new direction. Now using fifth-generation technology, it’s an idea that still holds fast on both road and racetrack.
So when did the first Subaru AWD come out??
http://www.audi.co.uk/experience/techdesign/quattro.jsp
I quote:
In 1980, Audi turned a corner: Quattro was born
The cornering and wet road-holding of Audi’s permanent four-wheel drive system is universally recognised as a phenomenon. On the day of its launch, quattro created shock-waves throughout the motoring world. In one fell swoop, it redefined the public’s concept of a high-performance road car and sent other manufacturers scuttling back to their drawing boards.
Quite simply, quattro is one of the most important motoring inventions ever - the kingpin around which automotive design turned and headed off in a totally new direction. Now using fifth-generation technology, it’s an idea that still holds fast on both road and racetrack.
So when did the first Subaru AWD come out??
16 July 2003, 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Geoff Wiltshire
They do.....RS4. RS6, S4, S6, S8, basically anything that says Quattro that isn't a A3 has permenant 4wd
They do.....RS4. RS6, S4, S6, S8, basically anything that says Quattro that isn't a A3 has permenant 4wd
According to this link the stylish and fashionable
Subaru Leon estate was the pioneer of AWD vehicles back in 1972Deano
[Edited by Beemer_Deano - 7/16/2003 6:57:33 PM]
16 July 2003, 07:11 PM
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I remember seeing a thread (might have been on here) with lots of info and a lot of Audi purists complaining that Haldex might not be worthy of the Quattro name, especially as Audi don't exactly shout from the rooftops that the A3 and TT are 100% FWD most of the time. I can't find that thread, but remembered Difflock was one of the quoted sources and found this snippet.
Or I might have seen it on the TT forums when I was checking out a few Scoobynet pranksters handywork (only went there in the name of research, of course
).
Deano
Or I might have seen it on the TT forums when I was checking out a few Scoobynet pranksters handywork (only went there in the name of research, of course
).Deano
16 July 2003, 08:49 PM
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Beemer_Deano: thanks for the link
Says it all realy to quote............
Audi TT and the A3 quattro will use this system (Haldex).
Note that this is still a part time, automatically enganging four wheel drive system. The quattro name, which used to have special significance is now being diluted by marketing expediency. Considerable confusion has arisen from the naming corruption by the two companies.
[Edited by Ajax - 7/16/2003 8:50:59 PM]
Says it all realy to quote............
Audi TT and the A3 quattro will use this system (Haldex).
Note that this is still a part time, automatically enganging four wheel drive system. The quattro name, which used to have special significance is now being diluted by marketing expediency. Considerable confusion has arisen from the naming corruption by the two companies.
[Edited by Ajax - 7/16/2003 8:50:59 PM]
16 July 2003, 11:20 PM
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stiler83: You are not wrong m8
http://home.no.net/jensenff/jensenbrothers.html
Audi actually bought a Jensen FF for study when developing the Quattro in the eighties, and today's most 4WD cars still followed FF's mechanism. One can easily see how advanced the FF was.
--------------------------------------------------------
I think this is an opinion about invention and development
Probably all nicking each others ideas along the way.
[Edited by Ajax - 7/16/2003 11:31:23 PM]
http://home.no.net/jensenff/jensenbrothers.html
Audi actually bought a Jensen FF for study when developing the Quattro in the eighties, and today's most 4WD cars still followed FF's mechanism. One can easily see how advanced the FF was.
--------------------------------------------------------
I think this is an opinion about invention and development
Probably all nicking each others ideas along the way.
[Edited by Ajax - 7/16/2003 11:31:23 PM]
Come along way since then (Thank God)
17 July 2003, 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by 7 foot.
Does this apply to the S3 as well?
My boss has one and I would love to wind him up.
Does this apply to the S3 as well?
My boss has one and I would love to wind him up.
Anyway, if you're out to get fired just show him this, or suggest he needs one of these if he wants a "proper" AWD car
Deano
17 July 2003, 09:40 AM
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I had an Audi 90 Quattro which was full time 4x4 and had a button which would lock all the diffs untill you reached 20mph. That thing would go almost anywhere.
The main prob. was some of the internals were nylon and would wear realy badly if you mismatched tyre types or ware levels.
Not as much fun as the Scoob though
The main prob. was some of the internals were nylon and would wear realy badly if you mismatched tyre types or ware levels.
Not as much fun as the Scoob though
17 July 2003, 10:02 AM
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I'm Back!!!!!!
Right, there was a company in Milwaukee in 1904, that mads four wheel drive trucks, they mad a few cars though, so this could be deemed the first four wheel drive!!
There was an associated company in Wisconsin, who made more between 1909, and 1912, they were imaginatively called the 'four wheel drive company'. How original is that!!!
Doesn't really answer the original question, but I thought it was interesting!!
Ron.
Right, there was a company in Milwaukee in 1904, that mads four wheel drive trucks, they mad a few cars though, so this could be deemed the first four wheel drive!!
There was an associated company in Wisconsin, who made more between 1909, and 1912, they were imaginatively called the 'four wheel drive company'. How original is that!!!
Doesn't really answer the original question, but I thought it was interesting!!
Ron.
17 July 2003, 11:25 AM
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There's an interesting timeline here as well as this 4WD of the Century article (which again points to the Leone as the first AWD production car)
Why do I find this anarak subject so interesting?
Just going back to the original salesman's statement though - a few of those sites state that Audi's "proper" Quattro is a Torsen system, whilst the Scoob uses the Ferguson system (like that Jensen)? The differences are too techie for me, but it sounds like the Scoob certainly doesn't use "Audi's" system?
Deano
[Edited by Beemer_Deano - 7/17/2003 11:29:42 AM]
Why do I find this anarak subject so interesting?
Just going back to the original salesman's statement though - a few of those sites state that Audi's "proper" Quattro is a Torsen system, whilst the Scoob uses the Ferguson system (like that Jensen)? The differences are too techie for me, but it sounds like the Scoob certainly doesn't use "Audi's" system?
Deano
[Edited by Beemer_Deano - 7/17/2003 11:29:42 AM]
17 July 2003, 02:59 PM
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Jeff,
You have a point about the S/RS4 and up range - I was thinking more about the Haldex based systems.....
They are both "proper" systems though the Torsen system is in most people's opinions, better. Having said that, it depends which Scoob you are talking about because some of them have a mechanical centre diff (Torsen type) rather than a Viscous Coupling (Ferguson type) and is why you will find John Felstead pointing out that all the best Scoob's have this (22B, RA, Spec-C, USDM STi etc.).
Matt
You have a point about the S/RS4 and up range - I was thinking more about the Haldex based systems.....
Just going back to the original salesman's statement though - a few of those sites state that Audi's "proper" Quattro is a Torsen system, whilst the Scoob uses the Ferguson system (like that Jensen)? The differences are too techie for me, but it sounds like the Scoob certainly doesn't use "Audi's" system?
Matt