GaryCat

I've been informed by my importers that Subaru Benelux will no longer fit PPP on to new cars before they are dispatched to the UK. Has anyone else heard this or is in the same position?

Gary.

integrale

forget it mate.

lemme put it this way......If you want you can pay £250 to ferry your motor over the water and then drive to Vilvoord (Belgium) and get it fitted for £2000 and then still have aggro with your waranty when u get back to blighty or pay about £1800 and get either Scoobysport or BRD (Bob Rawle) to fit a full decat and remap the ECU for you.
One costs about £2500 (ferry, car insurance, fuel and PPP cost) and gives you 260 bhp and 247 ib/torque.
The other costs approx £1800 (depending on the exhaust system you go for) and gives you 285 bhp and 275 + torque.

I know which route i'm going and can't wait to make that massive leap from 225 to 285 bhp.....schweet!

chiark

Strictly speaking, they're right to do so. When a car is first registered in the UK, it needs to meet its certificate of conformity.

Fitting a PPP after the car is sold in belgium but before its registered in the UK is probably against EU regulations.

You need to have it registered, then get the PPP fitted.

Or go elsewhere.

jhrfc1

Integrale,
One thing you forget is fitting anything but PPP will void your warranty, and also other mods are likely to be more expensive or just downright impossible to insure.
I know for sure the only mods I'd consider making to my 03 WRX is PPP until the 3 years or 60,000 are up.
Thinking about it, even then is 60,000 a good time to be inceasing levels of boost oil temps etc, just when is't going to cost a pakcet if anything goes pop. what do people think?

integrale

If i had gone out and paid rip-off britain prices for my new WRX then yes you're right it makes sense to go for the PPP and keep your warranty. A couple of things though:
1. My car's a dutch import that i paid approx £17.5k new for therefore i've saved enuff to cover the odd component breaking on me.
2. The PPP on my motor will cost me nearly £2.5k due to the crap euro/£ exchange rate and ferry, etc.
3. Even if i did go for the ppp i know that i'd get bored with the extra 40 bhp within 6 months and would still end up voiding my warranty b4 the 3 years is up by fitting a full decat or similar.
4. If you have a (very) good relationship with your dealer and you understand the mods that are being done to your car then who knows, you may still be able to keep your warranty. Always check with them first though......

In a nutshell I need to have a good 300 bhp under my right foot or it aint worth it.!!

Nick Wadeson

Integrale

If you require 300Bhp, can I suggest an STI+PPP

Nick.

integrale

of course u can but i'll need to borrow 5 grand off u first and even then i doubt i could learn to live with those poxy gold wheels and every ali g look-alike in sarf london wanting to race me in his lowered 1980's merc/beemer.

GTMR

Integrale, I'm with you on this.

markbluemica

Nick what your missing is he bought a cheap import he wouldnt want to pay for a full uk sti and ppp.

His cheap import doesnt seem so cheap now though does it


Mark

wooosh

.

GaryCat

Yeah its a pity that I can't get PPP fitted from new and I wish I'd known when I ordered it but it sounds like Subaru Benelux have changed the policy recently.

So I guess my options are...
1. Find a friendly dealer here who will fit PPP (and invalidate the warranty?)
2. Get an Ecutek3/Exhaust and lose the warranty

Nick Wadeson

Gary

Subaru Benelux have just confirmed to me that they are unable to fit PPP's on brand new vehicles, they will only fit them to vehicles on (or after) the first service.

With regard to your two points, both of these options will invalidate your warranty (especially since Subaru Benelux are starting to crack down on this problem).

I hope this helps.

Thanks, Nick.

Nick Wadeson

Edited as my internet access is giving me trouble today.....

[Edited by Nick Wadeson - 23/06/2003 15:06:31]

Nick Wadeson

And again......

[Edited by Nick Wadeson - 23/06/2003 15:07:04]

[Edited by Nick Wadeson - 23/06/2003 15:08:32]

GaryCat

Thanks for your response Nick but I don't see why there is a problem that needs to be 'cracked' down upon. Previous posts have stated that the PPP is standard Europe-wide, Euro warrantys are valid in any EU country so why should the fitment of the PPP by a UK dealer invalidate a Subaru Benelux warranty?

As an employee of Prodrive you must believe in your product and want as many Impreza drivers as possible to benefit from it - isn't this at odds with the petty Euro red tape that Subaru Benelux are imposing on us?

Gary

[Edited by GaryCat - 6/23/2003 9:52:58 PM]

Nick Wadeson

Gary

Whilst your car will be covered by the pan-European warranty, the costs involved in covering this warranty is the responsibility of the importer who sold you the car (in this case Subaru Benelux).

Whenever an importer sells a vehicle, a percentage of the retail price will cover the warranty provision for that vehicle, it is the same with the PPP. The reason therefore that Subaru Benelux will not cover a PPP fitted by a UK dealer is that Subaru UK will have collected the warranty provision and that Subaru Benelux is left with the perceived additional risk of an engine failure (all be it an incredibly small one) and the associated costs involved in a rebuild.

And yes, as a Prodrive employee I believe our products should be available to all Subaru owners irrespective of boundaries and red tape.

Thanks, Nick.

dsmith

Farcical.

Seems at total odds with everything we are told about opening up the european market. I really wonder why I bought Subaru again sometimes. It seems I've kept money out of the pocket of the joke that is IM only to give it to Subaru belgium who are rapidly becoming the same.

I'll just have to arrange a small detour on the way to Le Mans next year I think.

Deano

stone man

According to Nick the only reason I can't have a PPP fitted in this country on my Dutch import MY03 seems to be that the dealer in Holland won't recieve his allocation of warranty money, surely IM can take this money from the local dealer and forward it to Holland? The local dealer won't loose out as he won't have to warranty the PPP and the Dutch dealer gets his money if there is a problem.
It is in the interests of all concerned to get this rediculous situation resolved a.s.a.p
Subaru will be the only looser in the long run.

EvilBevel

Well, I have to be careful with my wording, but let me say I'm afraid that in my opinion, they have been quite comparable to IM for quite a while now.

Did you know that upping the boost on a MY99 to 1.1 bar will ruin the airco (even when it was broken already on the day of purchase) LOL

The only importer that gets my respect at the moment is Subaru Germany.

Adrian F

surprised that this approach from Subaru importers is not illegal as European law is suppose to incourage cross boarder trade.

Maybe if somebody has RAC or AA legal protection should seek advice as to the warrenty situation as the parts are approved by both countries importers and are fitted by their own staff they should be left to resolve any liability issues between themselves and not at the cost of restricting choice for the consumer and reducing competion for themselves.

Inaddition you would expect Prodrive being keen to market their product to a large part of UK subaru owners would not be able to supply a solution even if it is fitting it themselves and paying the amount for the liability cover to Subaru Benelux where applicable thus selling more PPP.

Apple

Nick,

I know the red tape will get us every time but to quote "perceived additional risk of an engine failure (all be it an incredibly small one)"

A couple of suggestions:

a) the PPP is fitted in whichever EU country (UK for us ) and the warranty cover amount is forwarded to the supplying country and is receipted / acknowledged / held on file in case of a claim

b) could us "scum of the earth" importers have PPP fitted in UK and not pay the full warranty slice of the pie (to either UK or BE etc) but also not have the "full" warranty as there's only a small cahnce of a failure later on?

flame suit on - I quess we know the answers but it'd be nice if it worked

Apple (MY02 Belgian supply)

GaryCat

First of all I'd like to thank Nick for explaining the situation about the warranties, I wish Subaru UK & Benelux were as customer friendly as Prodrive.

Secondly there's 2 questions to raise... (this could run and run )

1. Do Prodrive recommend that the PPP is only fitted at the first service? If not, why are Subaru Benelux making this an issue?

2. If I got a UK dealer to just fit a WR Sport Backbox (Subaru part no: SACC2147 ) would this invalidate the warranty?

Gary.

integrale

I've spoken to my company solicitor about all this and his advice was to go and get a uk dealer to fit the ppp to my dutch sourced car, then if it does go bang go back to my UK dealer and go from there. He said that the moment they tell me it's not covered because it's a dutch car to get him involved...in his own words: "I'd be really interested to see how far this could go bearing in mind the hot potato the european law issues are"...lol. He doesnt think Subaru UK, IM or Subaru Benelux would have a leg to stand on regarding not honouring warranties for EU cars. My own thoughts are that any internal redtape "inside" Subaru (Subaru Benelux/UK/IM) should be dealt with internally and should not involve the customer, all this finger pointing between the different internal subaru importers/dealers, etc just makes them look incompetent and will certainly damage the public's opinion of them. One things for sure this looks certain to continue...until someone makes a claim on their EU car...and then let the fun commence !

Apple

GaryCat

A couple of answers but obviously "unofficial" as I'm not from Prodrive...

Fitting PPP at first service: It's supposed to be an aftermarket kit i.e. not fitted pre-registration, hence first service assumes it's been registered (unless you've done 1000 miles on a private track etc but how do you get it to the dealer without a transporter / plates etc )

secondly, the temptation is there to use the loud pedal as soon as it's fitted and they could be dropping hints not to have it fitted before 1k miles during the official "running-in" period. Limiting their chances of a claim, I suppose but people have it supplied from new over here... Personally, I'd potentially like it fitted at some point but have now done approx 12k miles and the engine has loosened up considerably from new - I hope I'd appreciate the upgrade rather than somebody who "has to have it" from day one and then get's bored quickly

thirdly, it means you go back to belgium for your service / PPP and spend even more dosh (getting there & back etc unles it's cheaper hopping over channel than nearest UK dealer - if it could be fitted over here

Fitting WRSport b/box: I've just had a look on the Subaru Belgium website - they list Prodrive wheels as being available but I didn't immediately find anything about exhausts (mind you, they don't seem to list PPP either AFAIR ). You'd have to go through your warranty book letter by letter / contact your Belgian dealer / Subaru Belgium aftermarket department / Prodrive to get the all clear and be bullet-proof (and get it in writing just in case)

HTH

Apple