Blobster

Ok, here goes...
Nov last year I bought an RB5 with 19k on the clock. Bought from a main dealer as a 'Proven' used car. Bought an extended 3 yr warranty also. Car had a different back box which dealer said was 'Prodrive.'
Recently had the cambelt change service. I asked the dealer to confirm the exhaust type. Turns out it's a Scorpion exhaust with decat centre section also. Oh, well, no worries. A few extra BHP.
However I now discover the car has a 'Superchip' which apparently raises the limit of boost to provide extra BHP. BUT this now means the warranty I paid over £500 notes for is not worth the paper it's printed on.
What should I do?
a) If I remove the chip and de-tune the car I presume the warranty will still be void and I will have a slower car.
b) Leave the chip on, have no warranty, and wait for the engine to go bang.
c) either of above and ask dealer for refund of the warranty fee as clearly the car was not a 'proven used subaru' and the warranty should never have been sold - plus with option a) ask dealer for the cost of removal of said chip.

Apologies for the long post, but HELP.

binatone

i would personally go back to the dealer with the warranty in hand and shuv it as far up his a*se hole as it will go ....
Hope this helps.

IN THE STICKS

I'd go for option a , I didnt think chipping the engine was a good move on Scoobies ?

RB5320

how was the car described when you originally bought it? Was it a standard RB5 or was it described as a "WR" or "Prodrive" version. If the latter then it means it has PPP fitted which consists of different centre pipe and backbox and remapped ECU, plus a couple of other bits. Perhaps when your dealer says it has a "Superchip" fitted he is actually referring to the ECU being remapped by prodrive. If this is the case then it is totally warranty-friendly and is a Subaru approved upgrade. Perhaps the dealer just doesnt know what he is talking about?

Steve

Blobster

Thanks for the prompt replies. Thought I might have sent everyone to sleep.
Binatone - Unfortunately I'm feeling quite sanguine about it at the moment (nor am I a qualified proctologist)
INTHESTICKS - You're right of course but I'm in denial (I like the car's current characteristics and maybe would notice a slower car too much).
RB5320 - The car was sold as standard. But unfortunatley it has defininately got a 'Superchip' added (not WR or PPP). A local superchip agent confirmed as much this AM.
BTW do you know if the WR PPP is still available for the RB5 as this may be an option for me once the other chip is binned?

Blobster (still smiling - just)

[Edited by Blobster - 6/17/2003 4:30:03 PM]

RB5320

yes you can still get the PPP for the RB5 - it is exactly the same as the normal MY99 and you can normally find second hand ones for sale on here.
Re the exhaust, I may be completely wrong but I am sure I have seen somewhere that Scorpion actually make the exhausts for Prodrive. In that case you may not have a problem warranty-wise. Dont quote me on this though as I may be talking rubbish.
Perhaps your dealer can fit the ECU at cost for you to make up for the fact that the car you bought is not as it should be.

Steve

Blobster

Yes I believe you're right about the exhaust.
Nice thinking about the ECU - I might give that a try.

Although Blobster's first rule of inevitability states...

"If something can go wrong, it will."

ragnarock2

If the car and warranty were sold to you with the modifications already fitted, then surely they must either honor the warranty, or refund the difference, I would have a serious chat with the dealer/IM, and get this sorted out ASAP, as you do not want to find out you have no warranty if something does let go!

JPR

The dealer sold you the car and the warranty and therefore has an obligation to you. I suggest you should approach the dealer firmly (but politely) and try to arrange an amicable settlement.

Don't roll over and let him tickle your belly, we do that all too easy in this country.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

If the outcome is that you have no warrenty, and they have no intension of giving you a warrenty once the superchip is off (which I would do ASAP), then they should at least give you your money back for the extension.
With this money I'd put it towards an ECUtek remap rather than a PPP. The PPP is only worth having for piece of mind with a warreny, most poeple would argue that the ECUtek is a better map for 1/3 of the money.

banshi

Surely this must be a wind up?

I cant comprehend the incompetence of the dealer or the fact you have so litle concer about this. If last week (or next for that matter) the cars internals had been deposited along the hard shoulder what do you think would be the outcome?

If in fact a genuine query:-

? Contact previous owner, arrive at dealers with confirmation of modifications and if poss that they were identified when traded.

Insist that you would never have considered a modified car as you wanted the reassurance of a warranty. Underlined by the fact you paid an additional charge for that peace of mind and DEMAND that it is honoured.

By all means be courteous and polite but be firm there is no point "feeling quite sanguine". You won't be if it goes pop and are face a bill for thousands.

A premium was PAID and you are ENTITLED to the comprehensive cover offered by the dealer. Removing the parts will not reinstate your cover, unless all parties conspire to defraud the underwriters at the time of any claim.

I would demand a supplementary clause identifying these modifications and offering cover if no further changes are made.

Otherwise, my conversation would include deception, fraudulent selling, sharp practice, maladministration. Trading Standards solicitors etc. The minimum I would accept would be appropriate compensation i.e. enough to make me comfortable that I could cover possible repair costs and significantly more than the cost of my premium.

AND I would seriously question the competence of the dealer and particularly that of their so called technicians.

Blobster

Banshee, I agree entirely. I'm only sanguine because I know that I have to keep calm about this and deal with it in a rational manner. If I let anger get the better of me, negotiations between myself and the dealer will get nowhere.

Interesting point about PPP, Jay m A. What actually is involved with ECUtek? Is it just a remap of the existing ECU software, and what is the best place in the SE to get it done?
Also what is the likely cost?

Thanks everyone.
Keep the advice coming.

Spoon

I find all these type threads totally unbelieveable.

How on earth can you possibly need to ask the question?

You bought the car in it's present state, the car was sold to you as described, they took good money off you for a warranty on that spec.

You've since found out it's a superchip and not PPP, they hoped you wouldn't probably, or they simply didn't know.

Simply stroll back to the dealer stating your concerns, if they say to not worry then get that in writing.

If they say your findings void the warranty then personally a refund is certainly not what I'd come away with.

You bought the car WANTING a warranty, that was an essential requirement when buying, as was the power it had when road testing it.

They now need to somehow raise the power keeping the warranty valid, otherwise take it further, after all, why else use a dealer?

Go do it.

IN THE STICKS

Blobster best of luck ..and keep us posted
Dave.

ps If it gets nasty tell them your sister is a researcher for What Car magazine and she would love to feature it in next months issue ! (it worked for a friend of mine !)

Blobster

Spoon - I totally agree but you misunderstood the first post.

The car was sold as 'standard' with the only mod being the back box. I wanted a standard car, a) for warranty and b)I could to decide at a later date for extra power if needed.

The dealer did not mislead me over PPP, they just didn't know (or didn't tell) it had been chipped. I honestly believe it was a mistake on their part, but they now have to do something to put it right.
And, daft as it sounds, in every other respect, the buying experience was very pleasant.

Brun

I say get a Tek 2 and leave the dealer in the dark, cos unless they stick a boost gauge on it they can't spot it

scoobimax

Isn't there a Sale of Goods Act that protects you against item description not being truthful. Maybe worth contacting Trading Standards for advice or even one of those 'free' first sessions with a solicitor, but don't return for the fee paying second stint.

Max

danny-boy

I'd take it to the dealer and ask to be put right i.e. a Standard mid section cat, a "prodrive backbox" and normal ECU and a free service for the hassle!

Then write a ****ty letter to IM about the dealer

SlowBoy

iTrader: (1)

If the car's not what the dealer said it was when you bought it, you should be able to get most of your money back, if that's what you want. As for the warrenty, this should definitely be refundable in full, if no claim has been made to date.

nellie

Ive got a Firestorm backbox and centre section,they are made by scorpion who do make the exhausts for Prodrive and are made to a higher standard than normal,in fact if any mods are made to the same or higher spec than standard there shouldnt be any warranty probs.

banshi

Blobs, true m8 you need to retain composure and negotiate in a professional manner.

In doing so you need to decide beforehand which of the options are acceptable to you.

Bear in mind danny-boys reverting to standard solution doesn't reinstate the warranty. Even if everyone lies about the cars history you could still come unstuck if IM are aware of it.

Also have you considered the insurance aspect of this matter?
i.e. Have you notified them? Will they even accept a modified car?
Additional costs should be recovered from the dealer of course

But more importantly, and this is where I'd start to get angry. You have innocently been driving for eight months without cover!

Can you imagine the outcome of a accident? Sure you'd be out a few quid if it was a matter of bent metal, prob banned for a while and unable to get insured on a reasonable car for years.

But what of the financial/emotional consequences of personal injury or death. I know should the worst happen my wife/friends and relatives families would be compensated.

Due to their total incompetence yours wouldn't[img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]

Go give 'em hell, (in the most sanguine manner of course)

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

Blobster

WRT to the ECUtek there are 3 companies that stand out in the SE IMO which are Power Engineering, Scoobysport and BRD.

Yes, it is a remap of the ECU and a general rule of thumb WRT to costs is that £650 + VAT will get you a TEK2 which is a remap to boost levels of a PPP or thereabouts. Its up to you to change exhausts / filters to that of your choice but I believe the 'off the shelf' TEK2 will release more power on a std car, and further gains can be had from a decat/filter when fitted and without need of a remap.
A TEK3 is a custom remap to suit specifically your car and its current mods, be it just a decat, through to FMIC, uprated turbo etc. This costs a bit more I believe.

This is a general view and different companies may have different descriptions for their products.

Justin

Spoon

Blobster,

Sorry to confuse, what I meant by that was although it was sold as standard it was since found to have a superchip fitted, had it been a PPP then everything would still be hunky dory and you'd be laughing at the fact you've gained.As it's not, it puts you in a tricky position through no fault of your own.

I take it you did test drive it?

As I said before, if you did then the performance of the car sold it to you and standard power won't!

That's where I'd be pushing, equal,warranty friendly power, just like that I test drove.

Blobster

Thanks for all the advice and opinions.
As of this morning the selling dealer have said they will remove the superchip and associated piping, replace the original ECU, and if I want, put a normal catted mid section exhaust on the car.
This still leaves a question over the warranty, but I aim to get, in writing, an agreement to honour this. The dealer have indicated that they will be more than willing to do this.
The only doubt in my mind now is will I really notice the difference in performance of the car, and what to do if I do?

Blobster

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

If they replace the ECU make sure they give you one for the MY99 and not the MY00, I'm not sure what the code is but 801 or 802 spring to mind - I'm not sure which is the one for you though, hopefully someone else could help.

All I know is that a TEK1 was basically an fix for MY00 owners that had hesitation or flatspots, and is a OE MY99 map.