integrale

so how do you pull away quickly in first ?

my new WRX is a bit tricky as too many revs and i feel like i'm gonna kill it and too little revs and it bogs down and goes nowhere. Is the transmission/clutch sturdy enough to take 5 or 6 grand on the revs followed by a quick side-step of the clutch (think i already know the answer to this one) ?

want to hear your ideal revs, clutch technique, etc for pulling away rapido style.

NACRO

I have a classic and tend to sidestep the clutch just as it comes on boost at about 3K. Seems to give a fairly rapid start while being kinder to the clutch than a brutal 5K clutch dump.

For ultimate speed your going to be smelling fried clutch I reckon.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup, side step the clutch, really good if you want to pay the bills yourself
The best way is to get the car around 4k rpm, then come off the clutch (ie in the upward direction so your foot is still on the clutch) and apply the gas
Side stepping will only knacker your gearbox/clutch very quickly and leave you with large bills (take note that manufacturers dont pay warranty claims on abused items )

Tony

NACRO

So your blending the clutch with the power?

Won't that knacker the clutch quicker than just dumping it? Especially at 4K?

Always looking for new techniques that are kinder on the car so if this is a good one I'll go for it.

As far as sidestepping at 3K it seems fairly kind on the car, I never smell burning clutch and get a resonable start.

HHxx

Its not the burning clutch... its the shock to the transmission...

NACRO

tx for the info- looks like sidestepping is going to stop!

Pity 'cos it gets the car moving pretty damn quickly.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Sidestepping knackers your gearbox and clutch, coming off the clutch doesnt actually knacker either unless you slip it
Straight off the clutch and the power goes straight into the gearbox and down the transmission with one almightly jolt, just imagine being punched by a 2yr old or being punched by Mike Tyson, thats the difference (then check out the prices of gearbox rebuilds and the cost of a new clutch and possably transmisson parts too as thats where your going! )

Tony

vindaloo

...so to be on the safe side (?!)

I tend to slip the clutch a bit to avoid bogging it down. This still gets the car going reasonably quickly. Sounds like I need to apply more revs.

How much is a replacement clutch?

integrale

the journo's that print the 0-60 times must absolutely murder those cars to reach the sub 6 sec times.

I actually managed (accidently) to get all 4 wheels to spin last night when i first tried a quick start from standstill and that was in the dry....oops!

wont be doing that again.

Gussie Cup

Autocar are doing a short feature each week at the moment "How to drive like a professional...." etc by Tiff Needell

This week he wrote about "How to... The Perfect Launch" - He recommends different techniques for fwd, rwd and awd and for the turbo'd awd cars he does talk about keeping the revs higher i.e at least 4k and then sidestepping as being the most effective way to launch.

However, he's talking about making a perfect launch rather than ensuring the long term reliability and he also states at the end of the article that abuse like this will shorten the life of the cars transmission components.

Ben

NACRO

so sidestepping is quicker but knackers the car!

I'll start blending the power in from now on I think- thanks for the info guys.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Side stepping isnt acutally the quickest way, as by the time your transmission has caught up after the jolt you would have already got traction by coming off the clutch

Tony

NACRO

strange how Tiff reckons its quicker then don't you think?

Tell me do you know more about it than him and all the other Autocar journos? If so how?

Still going to try blending though as I don't want to shell out for a new drivetrain.

NACRO

Also I never noticed the jolt your talking about at 3K, 5K maybe but not 3K.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

if you have not noticed the jolt, then to me you are not side stepping at high revs, or side stepping properly. You are probably having your foot fully down on the clutch and then lifting in one quick movement, thus unless you are at significant revs, then you wont feel a jolt (read as car almost jumps, and rear diff hits the underneath of the boot).

Recently at Elvington drag days, i tried all methods under the sun. Progressively increase the revs by 500 each attempt, but using the clutch to hold the car still.

IMO, this method burns the clutch out, but does not transmit as much force to the gears and drivetrain once full released. Using this method, i also found my 0 to 60ft times were pretty poor.

Holding the clutch fully in and building the revs again each run, but this time lifting the clutch up in one full swift movement, i got quite rapid starts for me. However, the noise of the diff hitting the underneath of the car is immense.

Look under your car and see where the rear diff is, then how far it has to move to physically hit the underneath of the car, not touch it, but hit it like a sledgehammer. When it is doing thta, imagine the forces going the gearbox as the clutch engages.

This way i PERSONALLY feel gives a better launch, but the gearbox will take a battering IMO.

However, this way i feel is the half way house between riding the clutch on the line, and side stepping it, if you see what i mean.

Depending on which model year you have, it is very hard to side step the clutch, due to the foot rest (unless removed)

Steven

LG John

This isn't a bad thing IMHO as you are wearing out tyres as opposed to clutch and gearboxes. I recently did 15-odd launches at Crail and therefore had a fair bit of experimentation. My best run of the day was the one where i reved to about 3.5k rpm and then fairly quickly brought out (but NOT sidestepped) the clutch whilst nailing the gas. This revs rose enough to give the clutch a tiny spin which in turn took a lot of stress from the gearbox/diffs. What did happen is that grip was overloaded and the car went off the line sideways with all four wheels giving a bit of a spin. This produces the best time, one of the best 60 foot times and felt very smooth in the car at the time. No smells either. Sidestepping at 6k+ can't be good for the car and probably doesn't gain anything!

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

No it probably isnt, but yes you can gain IMO

Molds

[numpty mode]

What's "side stepping"?

Cheers

Matt

[/numpty mode]

NACRO

P20SPD you've described exactly what I've been doing so I guess I haven't been sidestepping at all. 3K revs seems to put it on boost and give a reasonable start without mullering the drive train.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Left foot on clutch, fully down, move left foot in a leftwards motion, ie to the side, clutch pedal springs up rapidly, with no resistance, clutch tries to engage rapidily, etc, etc

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

I think that SB has hit the nail on the head! It's a compromise to get the best speed without trashing your car. 3.5K whilst feeding in the power and slipping the clutch gives a good get-away and is sympathetic to the transmission.

Anyone who drops the clutch at high revs is:

1. Rich
2. Not in his own car
3. A journo
4. Stupid
5. Carried away by the crowd
6. Buying success
7. Selling/trading his car in

F

LG John

The other way to look at it is: My method got all 4 wheels to hook up and spin in the dry Sidestepping would have just smoked the line even more as there would have been no more grip to be had!

LeMans

I started hillclimbs this year in my Scooby and a good launch off the line can make a large difference.

High revs (5,000-6,000) and dropping the clutch will at best lead to a new clutch in a short period of time and at worst and more likely your gearbox or transmission will go bang!.

Depending upon which model you have: imports generally have bigger turbos than the smaller UK market turbo, what exhaust you have - large bore exhausts tend not to scroll up so quickly, etc, will determine when the turbo comes on boost.

I read a tip to hold the car on the handbrake, slightly take up the clutch (so yes a bit of slip)so there is no sudden stress on the gearbox and transmission and with 3,000-4,000 revs you are away.

I have budgeted on a new clutch each year as a worst case scenario and whilst 5,000-6,000 revs will give me a quicker time it will be a lot more expensive in the medium to long run.

I hillclimb with two other Scoobies, a type R who doesn't have the same problem as he has drive to the rear wheels off the line, so two wheel drive and not four wheel drive and a rally prepared WRX who also doesn't drop the clutch.

Be warned, standing starts dropping the clutch from 5,000+ revs will lead to a new geabox or worse !

Stuart

chrisp

A type R is still AWD its just on some type R just can use the DCCD to give it more power too the back but the front wheels are still driven.

LeMans

Chrisp,

Quite right - well the Type R is as near as you can get 2wd drive although as you say it is still 4wd - his split is actually 80% rear and 20% front (but adjustable), the rear wheels spin and the tyres warm up to give better traction and handling.

midget1500

"side stepping" or "letting the clutch out with a bang" on any car is a *bad* idea. you will break something, that power (if not spinning tyres) has to go somewhere!

revitt

Perfect starts are an exacting science.

From memory the maximum amount of grip available to the tyres is when they are slipping at 10%, i.e. if you ar doing 10 MPH your wheels are doing 11 MPH. The maximum lauch from the car will be achieved if the engine is spinning at the maximum torque point and for a turbo you need it on boost.

All of this is pretty much impossible to achieve as there are too many variables and if you watch F1 you will have noted that only Renault have managed to perfect it.

When I raced the method that I used that gave me consitently fast start times, though not ecessarily the fastered, was to blip the revs to near the rev limit several times, this gets the gases flowing. Then find the clutch bite point and when the revs are next at the max and starting to fall release the clutch, the car will lurch forward but with no load through any of the drive train and no wheel spin. When the revs fall to the maximum torque point floor the throttle and release the clutch fully, then balance the throttle with wheel spin looking for that magic 10% slippage and your away with very little loading through any of the drive train.

I raced for 10 years and only broke one component in the drive train. I snapped a driveshaft like a carrot by side stepping the clutch. Lesson never get angry behind the wheel of a fast car, it hurts.

StickyMicky

hmm when i was at elvington i was holding 5k then bringing the clutch up as fast as i could, never knew about this sidesteping thing

i do relise its bad for the car tho, its a shocking thng to do with a 4wd car in the dry, but it does give better results

greg.g

I think there is another connected thread in wanted about this at the moment -
"Where can i get a recon gearbox from"

Greg

midlife-crisis-scooby

ECU remap did it for me (TeK2)...Don't have to wait until next year for car to pick up from low down!

First (and only time so far) I really had a panic and "took off" at high revs and planted the clutch was at a roundabout in Newcastle when the car on the right (on the roundabout) was about to hit me.....

Can't imagine the clutch and drivetrain surviving too many of those...like the Enterprise at Warp speed !!!

Midlife....