Shark

As this is a Subaru BBS I will say that it's NOT a Subaru Dealer in question.

I have worked in the Motor Industry for many years, but what I saw today appalled me and I thought I should warn people of this practice.

I studied an invoice for over £800 worth of repair work on a 3 1/2 year old vehicle, ie just out of makers Warranty. The vehicle is a main stream car, widely used in the UK. The labour figure in my opinion was a bit high but the real shocker was the parts. I checked with the parts department of two other dealers just enquiring about the parts cost.

The dealer had added 10% to all parts on the invoice and a Wapping 30% to the main part. Normal cost retail £172, their price £224 !!!

I will not post ANY more details, nor will I reply to any emails asking for details.

I have spoken to several parts people in the trade today and they assure me that it can be common practice to overcharge in this way. One even said that he nearly faced the sack for telling his manager that he would not do it. It wasn't until the whole parts department said they would not participate did the management drop the issue. It does happen - I saw proof today.

Be careful out there !!!

David

richiewong

Bast@rds

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

How do they get away with extortionate hourly labiour rates as well.

>£50 ??

The other thing I have noticed is dealers charging a standard rate for say brake pad changing, which generally doesn't take very long say 1/2 but the standard rate equates to 1 hour labour ?

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

How do they get away with extortionate hourly labiour rates as well.

>£50 ??

The other thing I have noticed is dealers charging a standard rate for say brake pad changing, which generally doesn't take very long say 1/2 but the standard rate equates to 1 hour labour ?

Thats my moan over with

Pogue

Thats pretty standard practice in my industry (motorcycles), in fact a very well known company (think 2 big companies that recently merged and you'll be on the right track)were well known for adding VAT twice = 17.5% + another 17.5% on top.

Mickle

Not on the same scale but I was charged for screen wash on a service even though I purposely topped up with water and screen wash just before the service..

They'll get away with murder if they could

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

I had the screen wash thing and they swore they had filled it. I then pointed out that the screenwas they use is blue and it was filled with yellow..!!!!

Mickle

Snap! I used this iluminous yellow stuff from Halfords, they always use blue. There excuse was they just squeezed a bit more in there to stop the wiper blades from sticking..

Scooby555 2

The sey labour times thing is a standard issue and was when i did my apprenticeship many moons ago

I worked in a FORD garage and there was a set labour time book worked out by the manufacturer.

Say for instance to change a Transit's clutch (commercial apprentice) Took me and my mate 45 mins on a bad day but in the book was about 1 1/2 half hours

Please dont qoute these figures as being exact cos it was 12 yrs ago

Dracoro

On the other hand, I asked for a quote for a job and they quoted 1 1/2 hours as that's what the system charges. The mechanic says it'll take them 2 1/2 hours minimum but customer only gets charged for the 1 1/2.

I'll bet that this happens less though!!!

Techno

I agree as well folks.

The whole Motor industry is needing analysed with a very fine toothcomb starting with the insurance Companies then the garages and working down!

Time for action!

Im feeling better now that I got that off my chest.

Cheers

DavidLewis

One other thing is that the expected times for warranty work are lower than what would be charged to a customer.

ie IM pay dealers a lot less to change a clutch/piston/engine than would be charged to a customer.

Pogue

Scooby555 2

Think about it...

You said the time you were allowed was 1 1/2 hours

and 2 people did it in 45 mins ?

What does 2x 45 mins add up to ?

churchwa

Some of the new dealers just dont know what they are doing. They tried to charge me 2200 for PPP on my Sti8 and that was with a 50% on the labour.

I blew a fit and they gave it to me for 1995, but only after i had called the sales team. It clearly states on their web site that it is 1995 including fitting. What a joke. They will be getting it from me any day now. I will be asking for money back. We do have rights!

Crapaud62

My BMW was serviced many years ago whilst I was working at the dealership as an auditor.

The car was taken into the workshop at 11.00 am and back outside at 2.00pm but I got charged for 5 hours labour. They explained this due to the multiple jobs that can be done at the same time. The "standard" time always assumes the job is done in isolation. Whilst the oil is draining out they can be bleeding the brakes for example but you get charged the full time for each job. Tempting to book the car in five times for each task to be done separately.

The most infamous bit of overcharging was at the same dealers when my Jeep had a full service. As I handed over my keys I mentioned that the remote control central locking was getting weak. The service manager flicked open the key fob and replaced the battery in under 30 seconds. On the final bill was key fob battery £5, plus labour charge for fitting of £10!!!!!! I could have got my plumber and my lawyer to do the job together and it wouldn't have cost that rate!!!

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

A couple of years back when l was discussing labour rates with our local Warranty Hodings zone director, he told me that all Alfa garages within the M25 had just put their labour rates up from £75.00 per hour to £95.00 and as they are the warranty provider for Alfa they had to swallow it. Makes £50.00 above seem cheap.

David API Engines

Rab

I put a 206 Gti in to get brake pads changed and to replace an ABS sensor. Dropped it off at 10 am and wandered into town. I got a call at 2pm to ask me where my key for the locking wheel nuts were, then another call at 3.15 to tell me i could collect it.Imagine the shock when i was charged for 6 hours labour. Apparantly the calipers were siezed (14 months old). When i informed them that they hadn't touched the car till 2pm they were not happy. I refused to pay the bill and i started telling them exactly what i thought of them. Long story short - i contacted CAB and in the end i got a letter of appology and the offer of a free service. p.s the pug was traded in for a scoob within a month of the incident

barrybudden

That screenwash thing is a big one. I used to have a Audi A4 and had it serviced and they said the added it even though I fill it up every week. Had the subaru serviced the other week and was charged for it again and the wee tank was not toped up when I got home, that cost £1.50, will have to remember that for the next time.

Luke

It all because we dont know how to complain/check things out etc....... The british are easy to rip off.

Sbradley

A mate who worked for a main franchise dealer (not Subaru) told me one of their favourite scams.

Customer brings in a car for a service and gets a phone call a couple of hours later. "It's ***** Garage here. About your ***. Yeah, the power steering pump is leaking and one of the front discs is warped. You've probably noticed it feeling a little odd. (Like the King's New Clothes, at this point the punter is almost certainly going to agree) I'll check on the warranty situation but I have to tell you that the pump is around £400 plus a couple of hours labour. I just wanted to keep you in the picture." Customer is now expecting an horrendous bill so when he gets the next call a half hour later it's a pleasant surprise.

"Hello it's ***** Garage again. I've managed to get the pump included in the warranty as a gesture of goodwill, but the brake disc isn't covered. Still, we've managed to save you around £600, so that can't be bad. Can I have your approval to change the brake dics?" Of course, the punter is relieved and agrees straight away. When he picks his car up he's happy to "only" have a bill for £300 more than he expected.

The thing is, there was nothing wrong with the pump or the discs, and the discs haven't been replaced, just the pads.

Needless to say, this chap quit and runs his own specialist centre now, just down the road from his former employer, doing a very nice trade with their disgruntled former customers...

ozzy

It's hard to decide whether they are just blatantly ripping you off or just plain stupid.

When I had my car serviced my Dealer told me I need discs & pads all round and would be the best part of £800. So I asked if there was some upgrade options. They told me about the Prodrive upgrade, but the Prodrive calipers wouldn't fit under my RB5 Speedlines and I would need new alloys. They then told me that I had nails in the rear tyres and if they couldn't fix them I would be better to get 4 new tyres with the wheels.

I told them I'd think about it after facing a £3000 bill for brakes, alloys and tyres

I checked the discs and pads myself and although they were worn and the discs had hairline cracks, the fronts were good for a few more thousand miles and the rears didn't look bad at all.

I know the Prodrive calipers will fit an RB5 coz others have already had them fitted.

Makes you wonder and I won't agree to anything unless I see the problem myself. I'm no mechanic, but I can tell a worn brake pad when I see one.

Stefan

goonasuk

I had an incident with one of my old cars - ok it was a Ford Orion but garage said u need this and that doing etc loads of stuff so authorised some of it BUT didnt authorise brake pads - so they didnt put them on, and got my bill with an advice notice saying brake pads. Waited till i had some more money and took it back and asked for new pads.

Left car with them - go back to work - get the phone call but to my surprise not saying something else is wrong but - "You dont need brake pads" :shock: i went silent on phone and then he said "Who told you, you needed new brake pads" so i confirmed who he was and i then relied "you did!"

To which he went quiet and I then went a paid a visit!! had a go at manager wrote to head office who apologised for a "mix up" and offered me a free service - to which i told them to SHOVE IT UP THEIR ***.... and then told them i couldnt recmmend them as a garage on my works notice board

SCC PERFORMANCE

As well as doing performance tuning and other bits and pieces, we also do regular servicing for our other side of the business (St Albans Car Clinic).

If you thought that the industry wasn't regulated, then you'd be incorrect, as Trading Standards will drop in an undercover car now and then.

Also, most standard items will be governed by a labour time book, which in most cases is a good guide.

The problems arise when it comes to fitment of aftermarket products, since many of you will know, that aftermarket doesn't always equal straight swap!

Some main dealer labour charges can be a little pricey - AFAIK, most garages outside of main dealer status will charge somewhere between £35-£45 p/h plus vat.

Cheers,

Richard

ozzy

What powers do the Trading Standards folk have?

Say they drop in a car and a garage fits new pads and discs, saying they're worn and they're not. What exactly can Trading Standards do about it?

And if I feel I've been overcharged, who's gonna fight my case. If they've binned a good clutch how can I prove the new one they fitted was unnecessary work?

The problem with this is once you've been ripped off, it just costs you even more money to get compensation.

Stefan

[Edited by ozzy - 4/25/2003 12:02:37 PM]

Mungo

Don't forget that 5 hours' labour can be done by 5 mechanics in 1 hour...
I know this might be a naive asumption bearing in mind some of these stories, but it's perfectly possible too. If a garage has only 1 or 2 ramps, but 4 mechanics, they can all get to work on the same car together.

NACRO

In the case of any parts that require changing I always ask for and take away the old parts. That doesn't always do the trick though.

One VW garage (a Southern Advent dealership)tried to give me someone elses old parts and leave my originals in! Spark plugs, air filter etc, I asked them how they'd managed to replace the air filter without breaking the seal I had concealed round the back of the box!

The mechanic just stood there and said nothing for a while, I went and got his manager who denied that anything like that could have happened. I removed the seal, showed him then removed the dirty old air filter and showed him that. I then informed him I was going to trading standards and contacting his head office. I also refused his kind offer of paying the bill!!!!!!

ChrisB

My Subaru Dealer pulled that on me. Morning of the service I filled it up to the brim. When I collected and check the invoice, I see screenwash. I ask why and say it was full. Oh, we've put you a spare bottle in the glove box. Pffffff!

Jza

IMHO, i think the only thing you can do is sit and watch whats being done - to make sure you aren't

That's why i'll be going to somewhere that doesnt have a problem working on the car with me sitting there watching (with a stop clock ) once my warrenty runs out... at least then when im getting stiffed i can see when i need to put in the vaseline

Jza

ianfergus0n

Screenwash!!!! AAAGGGHHHHHHH!!!!
Rear Numerplate light!!!! AAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kev_turbo

I remember many moons ago having my deisel AX serviced at the local main dealers. When I picked the car up thew invoice quoted for 4 x spark plugs supplied and fitted. I asked who had worked on the car and could I see them, it turned out to have been the head mechanic. I asked him to escort me to my car to show me where the spark plugs go. He said, what you can't even find the spoark plugs. Not on a deisel I said.

This was referred to the manager who finally agreed that I didnt have to pay the bill and wouldnt have to pay for future services on the car. He also asked if I would leave the car for an extra day so he could ensure all of the required work had been completed.

Trust no-one, especially main dealers. Honest mechanics will aoways allow you to take old parts, etc. Most main dealers are crooks.

Kev