my first trackday, advise, criticism, whatever :D
14 March 2003, 11:21 PM
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Rather than highjack a thread I first mentioned this.
Thought I'd give it it's own place
short and sweet trackday, got banned for being too loud
(council were there and they had to be more strickt they said)
terrible understeer compared to my road driving,
not happy in that respect. but the bug has bitten.
35min download @56k
don't be to hard
Andy
Thought I'd give it it's own place
short and sweet trackday, got banned for being too loud
(council were there and they had to be more strickt they said)terrible understeer compared to my road driving,
not happy in that respect. but the bug has bitten.
35min download @56k
don't be to hard
Andy
15 March 2003, 09:22 AM
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Looks like you had fun , throwing it into some corners there. What car and mods have you got ? How did your brakes do ? Any fade etc...
Did you come away feeling more educated yourself about limits etc.. ?
What was that yellow car ? It f*cking flew away ...
brett
Did you come away feeling more educated yourself about limits etc.. ?
What was that yellow car ? It f*cking flew away ...
brett
15 March 2003, 11:43 AM
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Re:- throwing it in to bends.
I was trying my hardest to get the rear to "un-stick"
after realising it was understeering so bad, I will have to go back with some more pressure in the rear tyres I think.
Rear ARB is already set to hardest position
Education of limits.
I think it is necessary to get the thing to handle a bit more evenly before I can explore it fully but as it was set up, I was drifting right to the edge of the grass / cones, so I think that is pretty much on the limit .... for now.
Yes it was bloody good fun.
Andy
I was trying my hardest to get the rear to "un-stick"
after realising it was understeering so bad, I will have to go back with some more pressure in the rear tyres I think.
Rear ARB is already set to hardest position
Education of limits.
I think it is necessary to get the thing to handle a bit more evenly before I can explore it fully but as it was set up, I was drifting right to the edge of the grass / cones, so I think that is pretty much on the limit .... for now.
Yes it was bloody good fun.
Andy
15 March 2003, 02:31 PM
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Hi Fuzz,
Was this taken at Hullavington yesterday - it certainly looks like it as I was there too? The noise regs seemed quite stringent as my mate with just a SS BB only just passed. With my Blitz Nur Spec R I needed the bung which passed no trouble. Which car were you in (there were loads of Imprezas!) and what mods have you got?
Nice vid - can you post a better quality, less-compressed version?
This was my second airfield day (too scared to venture onto a "proper" track yet!). I didn't take tuition today but I did on my first one and the guy basically said that you need to be very smooth to get a good lap time, and this basically implies very little/no tyre squeal which I was initially taking much delight in producing! When the car is understeering the front tyres are sliding (obviously) which is most probably caused by you going into the corner too quick or getting on the power too heavily. I'd say the Impreza is quite difficult to get the back out using just power alone in the dry, because if the rear wheels are spinning, then so are the front so the car will slide fairly uniformly.
Having said that, I was there in the silver MY99 (standard apart from de-cat centre & BB and Prodrive geometry settings) having some serious fun oversteering, particularly through last corner but that was because I was deliberately unsettling it with the brakes and throttle (strictly not with the handbrake I hasten to add). Don't suppose you got any pics/video of me?
Was this taken at Hullavington yesterday - it certainly looks like it as I was there too? The noise regs seemed quite stringent as my mate with just a SS BB only just passed. With my Blitz Nur Spec R I needed the bung which passed no trouble. Which car were you in (there were loads of Imprezas!) and what mods have you got?
Nice vid - can you post a better quality, less-compressed version?
This was my second airfield day (too scared to venture onto a "proper" track yet!). I didn't take tuition today but I did on my first one and the guy basically said that you need to be very smooth to get a good lap time, and this basically implies very little/no tyre squeal which I was initially taking much delight in producing! When the car is understeering the front tyres are sliding (obviously
) which is most probably caused by you going into the corner too quick or getting on the power too heavily. I'd say the Impreza is quite difficult to get the back out using just power alone in the dry, because if the rear wheels are spinning, then so are the front so the car will slide fairly uniformly.Having said that, I was there in the silver MY99 (standard apart from de-cat centre & BB and Prodrive geometry settings) having some serious fun oversteering
, particularly through last corner but that was because I was deliberately unsettling it with the brakes and throttle (strictly not with the handbrake I hasten to add). Don't suppose you got any pics/video of me?
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15 March 2003, 03:41 PM
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Fuzz. This new broadband is cool
That looked wicked! Never been on a track yet. Where was it and how much do you pay for how many laps. Did I hear you getting your wrist slapped for being too loud???? Wat do they want you to do, slow down? You seemed to wake up when that kit car went past you. I bet the adrnalin rush after that is brilliant.
Well done.
Guy
That looked wicked! Never been on a track yet. Where was it and how much do you pay for how many laps. Did I hear you getting your wrist slapped for being too loud???? Wat do they want you to do, slow down? You seemed to wake up when that kit car went past you. I bet the adrnalin rush after that is brilliant.
Well done.
Guy
15 March 2003, 03:58 PM
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Fuzz, some good advice from a veteran track driver.
When taking a corner, try to hold your hands at the 15u15 position. When turning left, move your left hand up, your right hand down and turn the wheel. Try this out, feels much better.
The way you are taking corners, there is no chanche to correct something when it goes wrong.
As for the rest, you're goign pretty fast...
When taking a corner, try to hold your hands at the 15u15 position. When turning left, move your left hand up, your right hand down and turn the wheel. Try this out, feels much better.
The way you are taking corners, there is no chanche to correct something when it goes wrong.
As for the rest, you're goign pretty fast...
15 March 2003, 03:58 PM
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Noz,
I think the back was a little tooooooo far out wasn't it
shame no one got it on film
Ripmaze,
yes it was at Hullavington, Saw you in the silver one, making more noise than me
I'll try and post a better quality one but I'm only on 56k here...
and I'm limited on webspace.
Guy,
£99 for the whole day, you get put into one of four groups in the morning, then the afternoon it's open pit lane (as long as you want)
don't talk to me about price per lap
£99 = 4 laps
Andy
I think the back was a little tooooooo far out wasn't it
shame no one got it on film
Ripmaze,
yes it was at Hullavington, Saw you in the silver one, making more noise than me
I'll try and post a better quality one but I'm only on 56k here...
and I'm limited on webspace.
Guy,
£99 for the whole day, you get put into one of four groups in the morning, then the afternoon it's open pit lane (as long as you want)
don't talk to me about price per lap
£99 = 4 laps
Andy
15 March 2003, 04:40 PM
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Fuzz, I mean the quarter to three position.
Try to keep your hands there as much as possible, because, when your car is doing something that you don't expect, like over or understeering, you always can directly interfere.
The way you take a corner, you can't steer more then your arms can cross...
In the last EVO magazines there were some articles about driving fast from Don Palmer.
I don't want to say that you can't drive but suppose you take a corner with your arms crossed. Suddenly you hit a wet spot on the tarmac and your car understeers. Well, you have a problem there because you can't turn in more before straighten your arms, and then you probably hit the sidewall...
Don't copy rally or F1 drivers because their steering is a lot shorter then yours, even a RA has about 2.5 turn lock to lock I think. F1 and WRC cars have only 1 to 1.5 turns lock to lock.
See what I mean...
Or you can alter your steering ratio, but that would be very nervous to drive in traffic...
Creepy...
Try to keep your hands there as much as possible, because, when your car is doing something that you don't expect, like over or understeering, you always can directly interfere.
The way you take a corner, you can't steer more then your arms can cross...
In the last EVO magazines there were some articles about driving fast from Don Palmer.
I don't want to say that you can't drive but suppose you take a corner with your arms crossed. Suddenly you hit a wet spot on the tarmac and your car understeers. Well, you have a problem there because you can't turn in more before straighten your arms, and then you probably hit the sidewall...
Don't copy rally or F1 drivers because their steering is a lot shorter then yours, even a RA has about 2.5 turn lock to lock I think. F1 and WRC cars have only 1 to 1.5 turns lock to lock.
See what I mean...
Or you can alter your steering ratio, but that would be very nervous to drive in traffic...
Creepy...
15 March 2003, 06:06 PM
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Not prevent understeer, just a way to get trough the corner...
Lift the throttle a little for a safer result...
Anyway, see the movie and watch the arms, then you know what I mean
Creepy
Lift the throttle a little for a safer result...
Anyway, see the movie and watch the arms, then you know what I mean
Creepy
15 March 2003, 06:24 PM
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Yeah just had another look - you're right.
You were going at a good old pace there Fuzz! Ideally you ought to slowly wind on the steering (to allow the suspension and tyres to keep up!), and apply a fixed amount of lock until you are exiting the corner. This means that the suspension is static and the car is perfectly balanced. Are you more familiar with RWD? Looks like it!
You were going at a good old pace there Fuzz! Ideally you ought to slowly wind on the steering (to allow the suspension and tyres to keep up!), and apply a fixed amount of lock until you are exiting the corner. This means that the suspension is static and the car is perfectly balanced. Are you more familiar with RWD? Looks like it!
15 March 2003, 06:29 PM
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Brett,
Brake fade, noooooooooo. AP six pots
Ian Sadler,
Bumpsteer done already
Ripmaze,
No go, with the high res version, out of webspace.
which car was I .......
This one.
dam that brake dust
(picture courtesy of Paul Portraits Ltd)
Andy
Brake fade, noooooooooo. AP six pots
Ian Sadler,
Bumpsteer done already
Ripmaze,
No go, with the high res version, out of webspace.
which car was I .......
This one.
dam that brake dust
(picture courtesy of Paul Portraits Ltd)
Andy
15 March 2003, 06:37 PM
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Andy, you didn't per chance drive a hot hatch before the scoob? or drive almost exclusively front wheel drive cars?
The understeer may partly be caused by your suspension, but your driving style is not helping matters. At the moment you are charging into corners and using the understeer as a way to slow down. IMHO you'd be better off slowing down more before you start turning in, and turn in smoother (at the moment you are just throwing the wheel to the side). Once the car has settled into the bend you can get back on the throttle and power through from around the apex onwards to the next straight.
There also appeared to be a couple of strange lines being used, but that could just be down to the camera angle.
The main thing is having fun, which by the sounds of things you managed
but if you can adapt your approach you will be able to go a lot quicker (and hopefully not wipe out a set of front tyres every corner )
The understeer may partly be caused by your suspension, but your driving style is not helping matters. At the moment you are charging into corners and using the understeer as a way to slow down. IMHO you'd be better off slowing down more before you start turning in, and turn in smoother (at the moment you are just throwing the wheel to the side). Once the car has settled into the bend you can get back on the throttle and power through from around the apex onwards to the next straight.
There also appeared to be a couple of strange lines being used, but that could just be down to the camera angle.
The main thing is having fun, which by the sounds of things you managed
but if you can adapt your approach you will be able to go a lot quicker (and hopefully not wipe out a set of front tyres every corner )
15 March 2003, 06:44 PM
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Ripmaze/Fuzz
Can you have the Bumpsteer mod and the Prodrive geometry settings or does one prevent the other?? Which makes the most difference to the understeer problem/handling characteristics ??
Paul.
Can you have the Bumpsteer mod and the Prodrive geometry settings or does one prevent the other?? Which makes the most difference to the understeer problem/handling characteristics ??
Paul.
15 March 2003, 06:52 PM
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Paul, you can just have your geometry done on its own and it will (probably - it depends on how good/bad your current setup is) make a large difference. If you have the bumpsteer mod done they will do the geometry at the same time.
15 March 2003, 07:02 PM
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robertio,
Yes, hot roadster actually lol
front wheel drive and 150BHP of Nitrous
It'll be a while before I can confirm whether it was my "style" (or lack of) next test.... JAP FEST.
Andy
Yes, hot roadster actually lol
front wheel drive and 150BHP of Nitrous
It'll be a while before I can confirm whether it was my "style" (or lack of
) next test.... JAP FEST.Andy
15 March 2003, 08:08 PM
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LOL do you not think you might have overdone the NOS? just a little mind
Just about everybody I've been in a car with (who has driven mostly FWD) barrels into corners and lets the tyres slow them down, normally while keeping their right foot mashed into the carpet so that the poor front rubber gets torn off both into and out of the corner.
I'll keep an eye out for the understeering scoob with screeching tyres at JapFest It's a shame the track time is so short, I'm pretty sure our FDUK track session will be just a procession run for the 15mins, should be a laugh anyway.
do you not think you might have overdone the NOS? just a little mind Just about everybody I've been in a car with (who has driven mostly FWD) barrels into corners and lets the tyres slow them down, normally while keeping their right foot mashed into the carpet so that the poor front rubber gets torn off both into and out of the corner.
I'll keep an eye out for the understeering scoob with screeching tyres at JapFest
It's a shame the track time is so short, I'm pretty sure our FDUK track session will be just a procession run for the 15mins, should be a laugh anyway.
15 March 2003, 08:31 PM
#26
I agree with robertio about slowing up more into the bends. Going too deep in to the bend just looses you loads of time mid corner while you try and sort the car out, meanwhile the guy that slowed up nicely has pi55ed off into the distance.
What suspension you got fuzz? Leda's on mine transformed the car, very neutral now. Otherwise, get a stiffer rear bar to help with the understear, and I would raise the FRONT pressures and lower the REARs.
Paul
What suspension you got fuzz? Leda's on mine transformed the car, very neutral now. Otherwise, get a stiffer rear bar to help with the understear, and I would raise the FRONT pressures and lower the REARs.
Paul
15 March 2003, 09:16 PM
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Knocklink hits a few big reds after the first minute (example at 1:59), looks to be usually with your gearchanges as it is coming back onto boost, but gets a little more active as you use a lot of load in later laps. Probably just a bit of transitional det, but I would fire some octane booster into it for the track, or run a bit more if you usually use it.
[Edited by john banks - 3/15/2003 9:17:28 PM]
[Edited by john banks - 3/15/2003 9:17:28 PM]
16 March 2003, 12:28 AM
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Robertio,
I was thinking the same after the third rebuild
first time, cracked a piston.
second time blew a ringland.
third time, compressed all four piston ringlands so much that rings were stuck in the pistons.
was time to sell on after that
I'll be going a LOT slower at Jap fest, barriers are a lot closer to the paintwork there
and the fact I will have (hopefully) some serious horses under the bonnet by then..(see projects)
Pavlo,
bilstein dampers, eibach springs, front and rear, up rated ARB's, drop links the lot. rear ARB set to stiffest already.
would it be worth replacing the front ARB back to the standard one to "soften it up" as it's non ajustable ?
John,
you noticed the knocklink then. This was one of the points that was mentioned to Bob when the Link was first fitted, gearchange det ! he had it back and seemed to have cured it for road use, obviously neeeds more fettling
doen't matter for now anyway, big changes on the way
Never used octane booster before, I'll certainly remember it for Japfest !
Cheers
Andy
I was thinking the same after the third rebuild
first time, cracked a piston.
second time blew a ringland.
third time, compressed all four piston ringlands so much that rings were stuck in the pistons.
was time to sell on after that
I'll be going a LOT slower at Jap fest,
barriers are a lot closer to the paintwork there and the fact I will have (hopefully) some serious horses under the bonnet by then..(see projects)
Pavlo,
bilstein dampers, eibach springs, front and rear, up rated ARB's, drop links the lot. rear ARB set to stiffest already.
would it be worth replacing the front ARB back to the standard one to "soften it up" as it's non ajustable ?
John,
you noticed the knocklink then
. This was one of the points that was mentioned to Bob when the Link was first fitted, gearchange det ! he had it back and seemed to have cured it for road use, obviously neeeds more fettling doen't matter for now anyway, big changes on the way
Never used octane booster before, I'll certainly remember it for Japfest !
Cheers
Andy
