Functionality of spoilers?
14 March 2003, 10:18 AM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Looney Bin
Posts: 5,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question for those that have fitted an aftermarket spoiler 
Why do you think that a big spoiler is needed?
I can see the point in a factory fitted one, it's been in a wind tunnel & produces that much needed (
) downforce, and was on the car when you bought it 
But to those that bought an after market/replica one...
i) Do you really need the downforce? Especially those who use the car as an every day car & maybe a run at the weekend. Or is it more for styling purposes?
ii) Do you choose the one that produces most downforce? or the one that looks best?
iii) Couldn't the money be better spent on a trackday or tuition day? That way you would be a much better driver & not need the downforce
Iv) Just buy an Evo
Lets say the average power is 240-250 bhp. It isn't that much really. And on the bendy roads, it is unlikely that you will be doing enough speed to generate enough downforce to justify a big spoiler.
I can understand people wanting their car to look like a rally car & all that, but why buy a spoiler without giving priority to it's functionality?
I prefer points 3 & 4. but I would like to know if it's all about downforce or looks for you?
Crush
Why do you think that a big spoiler is needed?
I can see the point in a factory fitted one, it's been in a wind tunnel & produces that much needed () downforce, and was on the car when you bought it But to those that bought an after market/replica one...i) Do you really need the downforce? Especially those who use the car as an every day car & maybe a run at the weekend. Or is it more for styling purposes?
ii) Do you choose the one that produces most downforce? or the one that looks best?
iii) Couldn't the money be better spent on a trackday or tuition day? That way you would be a much better driver & not need the downforce
Iv) Just buy an Evo
Lets say the average power is 240-250 bhp. It isn't that much really. And on the bendy roads, it is unlikely that you will be doing enough speed to generate enough downforce to justify a big spoiler.
I can understand people wanting their car to look like a rally car & all that, but why buy a spoiler without giving priority to it's functionality?
I prefer points 3 & 4. but I would like to know if it's all about downforce or looks for you?
Crush
14 March 2003, 10:26 AM
#5
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 8,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crush
I remember someone from Prodrive saying that the spoilers don't so much produce rear downforce, but ensure the car is aerodnymically neutral as in a road situation downforce in one area may cause instability in others. So, if I remember correctly the idea of the spoiler is to make the care more stable, improve airflow than provide outright grip.
If I recall the P1 Spoilers and aero package made the car use 7Bhp less at 100mph
I was also told, that not many spoilers are actually wind tunnel tested and may even provide a small negative handling aspect.
I remember someone from Prodrive saying that the spoilers don't so much produce rear downforce, but ensure the car is aerodnymically neutral as in a road situation downforce in one area may cause instability in others. So, if I remember correctly the idea of the spoiler is to make the care more stable, improve airflow than provide outright grip.
If I recall the P1 Spoilers and aero package made the car use 7Bhp less at 100mph
I was also told, that not many spoilers are actually wind tunnel tested and may even provide a small negative handling aspect.
14 March 2003, 10:29 AM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you read an article that Peter Stevens wrote once, he said that downforce on a road car is not desirable because you will need harder springs and suspension settings to compensate to hold it up, and also drag gives you problems with fuel etc... The rear wing on a P1 for instance gives no lift or downforce but a neutral setting. But what wings do give is stability at high speeds, and also look cool.
My 2p's worth
Robin
My 2p's worth
Robin
Trending Topics
14 March 2003, 02:14 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: West Byfleet, Surrey
Posts: 1,653
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spoilers on most road cars generally do nothing except serve as a styling item.
Those that have been aerodynamically designed (rather than styled) will generally not produce downforce, but rather reduce the lift that most road cars suffer from at high speed. With this reduction in lift comes the increase in stablility that people are talking about.
Those that have been aerodynamically designed (rather than styled) will generally not produce downforce, but rather reduce the lift that most road cars suffer from at high speed. With this reduction in lift comes the increase in stablility that people are talking about.
14 March 2003, 02:25 PM
#9
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Throwing myself down a mountain at every opportunity...
Posts: 6,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As several have correctly said, most spoilers are there not to produce positive downforce, but to cancel out negative lift that the majority of road cars suffer, thus giving a neutral stance at high speeds.
Was it the Lamborghini Miura that tries to take off at high speeds?
Was it the Lamborghini Miura that tries to take off at high speeds?
14 March 2003, 02:40 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: same time, different place
Posts: 11,313
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
2 Posts
Remember the Countach? Had a gorgeous sexy rear wing, looked a bit bland without - but down the pub, those In The Know would prefer theirs WITHOUT the rear wing as it was common knowledge that it reduced the top speed by 12mph.
Like, all the way down to a pathetic 186mph
Oh, and I think I was one of them
Like, all the way down to a pathetic 186mph
Oh, and I think I was one of them
14 March 2003, 02:41 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 9,368
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Sierra cossie whaletail helps the car produce 124N of downforce at 100mph. Take it off and the car produces 524nm of lift at the same speed.
When I was doing 160 down brunters, it felt like the car was really being pushed onto the tarmac.
astraboy.
When I was doing 160 down brunters, it felt like the car was really being pushed onto the tarmac.
astraboy.
14 March 2003, 03:10 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Location: MY00,MY01,RX-8, Alfa 147 & Focus ST :-)
Posts: 10,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a style thing if we're honest. Some cars look better than others. Some get away with it some don't. Personally, I've always thought the Impreza (especially the new shape versions) look better with a big spoiler. The standard low spoiler does nothing for the looks at all.
Now supposedly, the RallyTech wing I have is a copy of the 2000 WRC wing in the high downforce position - can't say it ever worried me that much - it just looked better
On the basis of this thread, why do any of us actually bother owning a performance car in this day and age?
Because we can!!
Chris
Now supposedly, the RallyTech wing I have is a copy of the 2000 WRC wing in the high downforce position - can't say it ever worried me that much - it just looked better
On the basis of this thread, why do any of us actually bother owning a performance car in this day and age?
Because we can!!
Chris
15 March 2003, 06:37 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Bangor, Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i don't know much/anything about this BUT...
a spoiler does NOT produce downforce AFAIK, it has something to do with stopping lift, i.e. spoils the air flow (i.e. stops it moving too fast) - hence the name spoiler.
however, a WING fitted to a car would produce downforce, i.e. formula 1 car with multiple element wing on the back.
i think people get confused with wing/spoiler.
a spoiler does NOT produce downforce AFAIK, it has something to do with stopping lift, i.e. spoils the air flow (i.e. stops it moving too fast) - hence the name spoiler.
however, a WING fitted to a car would produce downforce, i.e. formula 1 car with multiple element wing on the back.
i think people get confused with wing/spoiler.
15 March 2003, 06:50 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 9,844
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cosmetics Crush without one a scoob looks hideous (IMHO) take the skirts and spoiler off and it is one of the worst looking cars on the road. As for why paying the money for it over something else, I guess we all want our cars to look their best - for 99% of the time that is all anyone else will see (when you're driving past someone in the street they don't know if you can out-drive a WRC driver, but they can see your car).
It's not just scoobs:
At the moment my RX-7 looks OK with its little spoiler (which does nothing aerodynamically) but when I change the front bumper to improve cooling I'll have to put something more substancial on the rear to match up.
without one a scoob looks hideous (IMHO) take the skirts and spoiler off and it is one of the worst looking cars on the road. As for why paying the money for it over something else, I guess we all want our cars to look their best - for 99% of the time that is all anyone else will see (when you're driving past someone in the street they don't know if you can out-drive a WRC driver, but they can see your car).It's not just scoobs:
At the moment my RX-7 looks OK with its little spoiler (which does nothing aerodynamically) but when I change the front bumper to improve cooling I'll have to put something more substancial on the rear to match up.
15 March 2003, 07:42 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think at the end of the day, styling wise, A spoiler really add's a finishing touch to an impreza's booty.
again another thing that is totally down to personal preference, some people hate them, i love em, but only the nice ones, not those jap metal ones, they are ****e.
again another thing that is totally down to personal preference, some people hate them, i love em, but only the nice ones, not those jap metal ones, they are ****e.
15 March 2003, 08:08 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: French side of the border at Geneva, Switzerland
Posts: 5,703
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do I want a big spoiler on my STi7 ? Easy, cos I wanted an MY02 WRX STi Prodrive Style Impreza and they were sold out by the time I got to the store. The little spoiler I have now just bugs the crap out of me. Don't get me wrong, my scoob and I have a very harmonious relationship so whilst I'm 99% happy with it, the little spoiler has to go...and hopefully by the end of the month, it shall indeed be gone
As for increased downforce, yep, that's another good reason but being honest, it's all about aesthetics - scoobs with little spoilers just don't seem "right" - well...to me anyway !
As for increased downforce, yep, that's another good reason but being honest, it's all about aesthetics - scoobs with little spoilers just don't seem "right" - well...to me anyway !
15 March 2003, 09:19 PM
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2000
Location: MY00,MY01,RX-8, Alfa 147 & Focus ST :-)
Posts: 10,371
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Diesel
That is a RallyTech wing (spoiler?) on my car. I agree that the terms have become confused, but I really couldn't give a rats **** if it does or doesn't produce downforce (or whatever). The reason for fitting was purely cosmetic. Having the tracking / alignment sorted and fitting a set of Eibachs, helped improve the cars handling - nothing to do with fitting the wing
Chris
That is a RallyTech wing (spoiler?) on my car. I agree that the terms have become confused, but I really couldn't give a rats **** if it does or doesn't produce downforce (or whatever). The reason for fitting was purely cosmetic. Having the tracking / alignment sorted and fitting a set of Eibachs, helped improve the cars handling - nothing to do with fitting the wing
Chris
15 March 2003, 09:25 PM
#26
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
couldnt care less what it does, as long as it looks better than the "bent ironing board" they fitted to the bug eye, I'll be buying a bigger one as soon as I can.
Oh, and the wife likes big ones
Oh, and the wife likes big ones
16 March 2003, 08:57 AM
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 477
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The STI website advises use of a front splitter if you fit one of the large spoilers (and the reverse is true) to retain balance. The spoiler only really comes into effect at speeds over 70mph. It probably helps keep the car planted on motorways, but you can't really hit those sort of speeds on twisty backroads to get any help in cornering.
However, they do give the car much needed character.
Ken
However, they do give the car much needed character.
Ken
