alan_b

Sorry lads, not a jazzed up scooby costing many thousands to tune but a £3700 Saab with a £800 stage 3 kit fitted in half an hour.

http://www.drabux.v-2-1.net/saab.html

Alanb

ADP

fine..................in a straight line

although I bet its a pretty good wolf in sheeps clothing ay?

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

Sounds fun but the Scooby's will out run you on the bends

Enjoy !!!

Neil Smalley

Nice

What's the reliability reported to be like?

Although the mod is only 800 quid, the cost of the tyres it will use in a year brings it up to Subaru cost levels

fmacario

POWER IS NOTHING WITHOUT CONTROL!

rich uk300

well done m8.....don't be sorry though

i've got 300bhp from power engineering...and its standard

Chip_Butty

Quite a way short of my 420bhp
But keep up the good work.

Surely all the money you guys spend on modding could go towards buying a car with all that power in the first place; or am I missing something here?

alan_b

Well, since a Clio 172 laps faster than a scooby according to Evo, I don't feel that a well set up 311bhp front wheel drive car will be bothered by a scooby.

BTW, one massive downside of 4wd is transmission losses. A chipped STi managed 290bhp today but was only getting a limp-wristed 212bhp at the wheels vs my figures of 249bhp at the wheels.

Oh, one final thing, I managed 32mpg on the way home tonight. What it might cost me in tyres, I'll make up in saving fuel.

Alanb

rich uk300

good for you.....i'll stick to my scoob

Pavlo

I'm curious to know how you measured the driveline/tyre losses on the rear wheels when the flywheel power was estimated.

paul

alan_b

Rich'300' - and the torque for your car? I only managed 314lbft while others managed 316-320. Chipped STi was 280 odd.

Alanb

rich uk300

only a measley 263 for me......

alan_b

Pavlo,
Power for Saabs comes through the front wheels

Power Engineering dyno is very heavily used by the scooby fraternity and, as is well known, flywheel power is calculated by measuring the reverse load from the wheels during the deceleration run.

Alanb

BillJ

I'm interested in an objective comparison between these cars, as I have never driven a Scooby. Can anyone point to any Scooby lap times around Goodwood for comparison? (Times for "average", not pro drivers).
I'm not a brilliant driver, mind you, but my modded 9000 Aero (only got 298hp today) was taking me round a drying track at 1min 48s the other day. I hope to be quicker next time, as that was only my second ever track day. On my first day out, my times were pretty poor, but another 9000 was lapping about 1min 47s in the wet (only his second track day).


[Edited by BillJ - 11/23/2002 7:57:02 PM]

[Edited by BillJ - 11/23/2002 8:01:09 PM]

Pavlo

Alan, I am well aware of how the road dyno's work. WHat I am saying is that the front wheel drive measurement of the saab, will not take into account the drag of the rear wheels. Which will comprise of the bearing drag and the tyre drag/deformation.

What it boils down to, is on the road, your net power, will be less than the figure on the dyno.

Not arguing, stating facts. This came to light in paticular because one US scoob tuner was taking out the prop shaft and locking the centre diff, running them FWD only. This was because he only (at the time) had a 2wd RR. Anyway, you can imagine the stink when he was quoting at the wheels power figures, and comparing them to tuners with 4wd rolling roads.

Still, nice figures for little money.

Paul

scooby_xt_turbo

with the same money i'll get 315 from my Coupe Quattro. And in standard engine spec!!



















































Audi RS2 Engine Transplant!

[Edited by scooby_xt_turbo - 11/23/2002 8:26:01 PM]

BillJ

Pavlo, in the case of the guy fiddling the two-wheel figures, wouldn't more of the losses be associated with the rear diff than the bearings?
The measurements were taken on PE's 4-wheel dyno. I didn't look to see whether the rear rollers were turning, but they did take pains to adjust the rear rollers to the wheelbase of each car.

chrisp

Need to phone clarson and get "the stig" to drive a resonably price modified family car .

Well done with the figures but personally I dont think I would want 300+bhp just going through the front wheels

Pavlo

The car will sit on all four rollers, the rears won't turn, so losses will not be measured. They won't be huge, but they will be there. Obviously 4wd will have higher losses than 2wd, FWD arguable better than RWD.

Just making the point that while everyone makes a fuss over 'power at the wheels' it's not as infallable as people think. Run a short ratio gearbox and you will increase wheel power as the wheel speed is less on the rolling road, reducing losses through the tyres (losses on UK car will show as being higher than an STI in the same gear and same revs).

Paul

alan_b

Pavlo,
Sorry, I misunderstood you. Good point. Any idea what those losses typically might be?

Alanb

chrisp

My RA had 60bhp losses where as a P1 on the same rollers same day had nearly 100bhp losses. TBH I think RR meets are just a bit of funny and have the bonus of finding out that the car checks out and there isnt anything obviously wrong. A car could have 1000bhp on the rollers but be an absolute dog to drive on the road. Also it tests the power in one gear only, for drivability the ratios need to be matched to give an overall road performance.

Mine checked out on the RR and has a great torque curve and no flat spots and 195bhp at the wheels. It may not be the quickest thing on 4 wheels but its great to drive with the short ratio box there is just roll on aceleration .

Cheers

ChrisP

ADP

clio 172 may lap faster than a scooby, but its only a standard wrx. Id like to see it stick to an STI type R.........no chance

GASMON

apparently the saab would have gone quicker had they removed a months shopping and a set of golf clubs from the boot,and taken the mother in law and her poodle off the back seat!

tonedepear

What about if they'd un-hitched the caravan?

Pavlo

RR days are a good larf if you're going with mates etc.

P1 has UK ratios/diffs, illustrating the difference.

No idea what wheel only losses would be, but not much. Can be calculated on the road by measuring decelleration on coast down.

Paul

BillJ

"apparently the saab would have gone quicker had they removed a months shopping and a set of golf clubs from the boot,and taken the mother in law and her poodle off the back seat!"

Well, I did have a passenger, gear for an overnight stay, spare helmets, snow chains (not fitted) and the Air Con on!

I had to stay in a B&B, though, because I'd forgotten the caravan

[Edited by BillJ - 11/23/2002 9:34:42 PM]

hypoluxa

A Rolling Road Dyno CANNOT measure transmission/drivetrain loss.

Transmission losses rise as engine power rises. General losses are between 20 & 25% at the very most for Scoobs, RWD around 17-18% and FWD 15%.

Lets say you had 280bhp at the flywheel on a scoob, you would lose around 50-70bhp through the gearbox, diffs, axles, tyres etc. If you had a 1000bhp then 200-250bhp would be soaked up.

Now heres the interesting bit...

During the coastdown run on a rolling road the engine is NOT connected to the drivetrain as the car is put into neutral, so whatever is being measured cannot be transmission loss! On the dyno the 1000bhp beastie would have the same losses as the 280bhp car!

Some Dynos actually let you programme in the transmission loss %. Obviously a very easy way of getting big flywheel figures, simply input a higher % loss and hey presto big power!

I would take it all with a handful of salt

scooby-si

wait till i get my RS6

need to speak to the bank man first lol
and tell him i need this car

tweenierob

Saw a 318bhp Saab at The Pod in september
The Car did have some serious torque when i looked at the RR printout he had.. shame about his 1/4 time...
Definately wouldnt fancy putting that much power to the front wheels, especially in the wet
Still.. impressive RR figures for £800, well done mate
Rob

900t16Aero

My humble 2.0litre F-reg 900 T16S made 'only' 266bhp and 308lb/ft at Power Engineering.
Although the mods were my 'home brew' effort and in total owe me about £400!!!!!!!

Pete.