Fury Pilot

Well, I bought my first Scoob at 11:30, and before 12:30 I had had my first 'incident':

It happenned on a very wet, curved road between two roundabouts. I have no idea what speed I was doing because I'm used to an old noisy FWD car that tells me that it's losing grip via the steering wheel. All of a sudden the Scoob twitched and the back end came out. I came off the throttle, and just steered to keep it pointing the right way. I was not expecting this and had no warning. What should I have done? Press the clutch to avoid lift off oversteer?

Is (any of) this normal?

Fantom

take it easy before you start caining it!
make sure you learn the limits of the car before you use them

Luke

Take the "Avons ZZ1" tyres off!!

ChrisB

You answered the question yourself...

Don't lift!

akshay67

I've had mine for a year now and almost lost it on a twisty road a couple of days ago - in retrospect I was going much faster than I could handle and it was because: 1. I thought the car could handle it (forgetting that I couldn't); 2. The speed was deceptive - I could have sworn I was doing about 30, but was closer to 50 (in 2nd gear).

Take care dude...

Ted Maul

DONT take your foot off the gas...wierd if you not use to it but once you see the difference when you keep your foot down.....

Katana

You'll still start drifiting laterally even if your foot is planted on the go-fast pedal as I've found out a few times.

edit: before anyone asks, I'm 25....unless you're a lady of which my age mysteriously becomes 19.

[Edited by Katana - 11/22/2002 1:48:20 PM]

chiark

Learn the scooby mantra: Slow in, fast out.

Lifting off mid-corner when you don't know the car is going to put you in a flap if you're used to front wheel drive - especially if you never went out for lift-off oversteer in it.

Take it easy, these things are just cars and aren't just like playing a playstation but they are just as much fun

Tyres are very important too - don't scrimp on 'em, otherwise you could pay for the savings in another messy way

Nick.

Fury Pilot

Thanks for the advice, guys.

The car must have started to go before I took my foot off, but I'm sooo used to doing that, and pressing in the clutch, with the FWD car. Lift off has got me into trouble on my RWD car too - I've actually spun off the track AND road in that. In this case I don't *think* that more gas would have got me out of trouble, since it wasn't lift off that caused the loss of grip. I'll have to learn how to drive fast again...

BTW: I've just found the thread 'Sideways' which sounds v. v. similar.

I think I'll also check what rubber's on the back...

RB5SCOTT

Lift off, its more fun just be ready for it when you master it you can set the car up perfectly for the corners

[Edited by RB5SCOTT - 11/22/2002 1:51:26 PM]

foz01

Saying "dont lift off" is fine on a track or bit of road you know well but on some dodgy wet unfamiliar road with kerbs and walls and pavements etc it's a completely different matter, lifting off will get oversteer under control as you as you arn't being a complete tw@t

chiark

Lifting off and not expecting oversteer = accident
Lifting off and expecting oversteer = fun
Keeping accelerator constant, using smoothly as necessary = safe

S55 HOT

Are your front & rear tyres the same type ?

I had all sorts of oversteer problems when I replaced my SO1's on the front with SO2's, but left the SO1's on the back.

Now I know that you should always have the same rubber all round - kind of obvious in hindsight, each tyre type has a different point at which it lets go, so 99% of the time it's fine, but when you hit that limit one set goes before the other.

I now cringe when I see cars with odd tyres, I've even seen some (not scoobs) with 4 different types of tyres on !

Fury Pilot

The car has Avon ZZ1s on all corners. The front ones have more tread, but the back isn't bad. Are the ZZ1s considered not to be good? I've been v. impressed with Yoko A539s on my tin-top, but I guess that they wouldn't last long on a 4WD car(?)

The cold tyre pressures, as measured this evening, are: 30F, 27R; compared to 33F, 28R specified on the B pillar.

So, should I put the fronts up and leave the rears, to encourage understeer? As it is, I'm not even driving as fast as the shopping trolleys, because I'm worried that the first sign of traction loss will be serious. I hope I can get this sorted, otherwise (sacrilege) I'll wish I bought a FWD car!

As an aside, there is a drivetrain noise from the back, which I thought might be a wheel bearing. Back in the service history, the rear diff was replaced under warranty as it was noisy. Maybe it's the same or similar problem(?) I'm wondering if this could causing twitchy handling...

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

IMHO These tyres are quite the worst tyres I have ever had the misfortune to use (on my old 205 GTi)

They are ****!!

Sell them, bin them, put them on four gatso's and set them alight!! Just don't use them on your car!!

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

Hi
My thoughts.
1. Get good tyres all round - Goodyear F1
2. Be very smooth with all stearing and pedals
3. Slow in fast out. Slowin fast out
I approach corners and take alot of speed off. I tend to over do it a bit and go into the corner a bit slower than I could do. To give me a bit of margin, if it unexpected tightens up etc. Idealy in most cars you ease onto the gas at the apex. I find because I am slow in I can progressively feed the power on before the apex and drive the car round the bend and be much quicker out the bend than other cars. Scoobies tend to understear so sometimes if this happens or a bend tights up it is good to ease of the gas to push some weight to the front of the car and induce mild overstear. This corrects the line of the car and you can ease back onto the gas again. So it is good fun and very controllable on the throttle.

So my two top tips are -
Goodyear F1 tyres allround and slow in fast out.

Best wishes and safe driving Steve

IanW

*shudders*

I had a set of this on one of my old cars, I drove on them for a whole 2 hours before going back to the garage and paying out for a complete new set of tyres! NEVER EVER again would i use an Avon Tyre.

Go for a set of Toyos or Goodyear Eagle F1's

Ian

STi wanna Subaru

iTrader: (1)

^
^
^
Listen to the man!!

TKH

And remember my son the force may not always be with you

And also take note there is no such thing as a small accident in an impreza

Regards

Tim

PG

fuel starvation !!!

Fury Pilot

I get the message: bin the ZZ1s. Being a tight git, I'll do me best to burn 'em off in the dry - if it's every dry again! ;-)

worley

I lifted off (once) but fortunatly was on an Airfield at the time. I was taking a left hander at 90mph and decided to lift off after the turn-in point - resulting in a 360 degree spin and a red face. It was all caught on video and definatly serves as a reminder.

sKunk

I changed from ZZ1's to Toyo Proxy T1's last weekend.

Honestly, it's like driving a different car. I swear to god the difference between them as far as grip and cornering goes is massive.

I used to slide my scooby around at ease. I've yet to totally break traction with the Toyo's and I was caning it on the country roads today.

Toyo's are different class to Avons :up:

Sith

Bin the Avons. Simple, with this car you can't be a tight git.

It still seems strange not to lift in a corner but with practice I have learnt and you can feel the drive train pulling you tight in the corner again. But there is only so much it can do.

Enjoy the car.

R.B

Yes you need to take your time for at least a few months until you get used to it.

People buy these cars and think that the invincable.

There not look at the photo`s in members gallery.

SLOW DOWN

Fury Pilot

Thanks once again for the advice. :-)

I think I'll practice on some wide, slow roundabouts, when I don't have the family in the car...

Marty.S

I had ZZ1's on my scooby, I thought they were dangerous so i bought
some S02's and couldnt believe the difference.
I know its expensive, but get rid of them before they catch you out.

Marty

Fury Pilot

Wouldn't it be a good idea to learn how to handle the car with the poo rubber, as everything will be happening at lower speeds?

I just can't understand why the grip with these tyres is so poo. They look like they *should* be good in the wet. The reality is that, despite the car being 4WD, it won't grip as well as a 2WD car. It really seems that bad!

johnfelstead

junk the tyres now, or prepare for an expensive few years of insurance premiums!

Sell those tyres to a track day enthusiast, rock hard tyres are great in summer on track, apauling on the road, especially in winter.

roee

Fury, for the safety of you, and other road users I want to make the following points:

a. under NO circumstances one should dip the clutch to alter the car behaviour. this is the WORST thing i can imagine someone doing and in fact i'm quite shocked no one commented on that before. by pressing the clutch you disable the second most important tool to altering the car direction - the engine. not to mention the shock likely to be when you re engage the clutch (unless you rev match, but i doubt).

b. lifting off when the car slides is a bad idea, even though it's the first and natural reaction (this can be fixed with some proper tution and training). instead you should apply some throttle gently, without overpowering (which can get you into more troubles). that requires practicing until you get it right, and then even some more practicing to make it your second nature.

c. 2WD or 4WD, they have exactly the same grip under those condition you described. 4WD doesn't grant you twice the grip, in fact it doesn't grant you even 1 percent more grip unless you are utilizing the engine for acceleration, which you obviously didn't do. Compared to a FWD car, 4WD will not save your *** - but it can get you into lots of troubles.

d. it is a good idea to learn on those tires, try an airfield day asap. good handling cars like Scoobs can make people feel invincible up until the limit, but their on-limit handling, which an experienced/skilled driver will find entertaining, can be downright dangerous for those who don't know how to control a car properly (no offence, that is aimed to lots and lots of Scooby owners out there, i guess that among the general public it's something like 95%).

GO AND GET SOME PROFESSIONAL TUTION, it will make you FASTER and SAFER at the same time. they are not mutually exclusive!

[/rant]

[Edited by roee - 11/24/2002 2:35:49 PM]