stewart_mcg

Hi all,

I am proudly going to the Subaru garage tomorrow to pick a MY98 Impreza turbo (wanted one since I was knee high to a grasshopper).
As it's AWD and I'm used to driving FWD any tips for achieving that sub 6 sec 0-60 time and having a litte bit of mechanical sympathy?

Cheers

Stewart

Neil Smalley

IMHO Don't try it. You will damage the clutch with only a few full bore starts.

Also, watch it in the wet(have a read back a week or so on the number of people coming off on wet roads).

Impreza's are great cars, but not invincible ones.

stewart_mcg

Thanks Neil,

That sounds like good advice.

LG John

To lauch the UK well you don't need full bore starts - these are for crail only or if your lined up next to an EVO or Cossie

I find bliping the throttle up to about 3.5-5k rpm a few times and then at the peak bring up the clutch whilst mashing the gas. I find this gives a good start without bogging down and the clutch only gives a quick murmer before fully engaging - minimal slip.

WARNING - If you go for the gas too quickly before your left foots lifted you'll spin the clutch and go nowhere

It's hard to describe in words but I find this works well and is almost as quick as full-bore but without the same level of wear. It still not massively sympathetic though.

Neil Smalley

The most important thing to remember when driving an AWD car is that you only get the grip when power is applied. Make sure you get the speed right for the corner and try and keep constant power and steering all the way until the apex. Once past the apex you can then increase the power and use the grip to accelerate out.

Slow in fast out, seems to be a good maxim. There are a lot better drivers on SN than me, and who can explain exactly how to get the best from your car both in terms of safety and enjoyment.

This is an excellent site http://web.archive.org/web/200109262...hniques.co.uk/

[Edited by Neil Smalley - 11/11/2002 12:40:08 PM]

TRIGGER

When I first got a Uk car I was pretty abusive with the clutch and it lasted with no problems for 2 years and 30,000 miles. Go on, enjoy the thing.

I find best to get it to 5000 rpm and then ease off clutch and steadily on the throttle. Not much to be gained from the uk cars by using all 7000 rpm to be honest.

LG John

Spot on You just said it more simply

Miles

Hey Stewart, good to see another Aberdeen loon on there, check out the Scotland forum as we tend to post specific Aberdeen stuff in there. And also we meet up on the first Tuesday each month at the Old Mill Inn on the South Deeside Road.

As regards the 0-60 dash, what Neil and SB say is good advice. Do it repeatedly and you will break the gearbox. In the 4 years I've had my 98 it's done about 8 full bore, 5K rpm and dump the clutch, jobs, mostly at the wee sprint track up at the Transport Mueseum at Alford. What you mostly get is that the clutch starts spinning, some banging noises from the transmission and a smell of burning clutch. Not very good! (but kinda fun )

siwrx

dunno my m8 killed a new clutch in a day with a few 7000 rpm launches and other general racing so im a bit wary of them

stewart_mcg

WOW - thanks for all the advice. I can see I am going to have a bit of fun over the next few months.

LG John

I think the problem is that most people have a different definition of 'gentle' 'brutal', etc. What to me seems fairly sympathetic may to others seem savage. Of course you can kill a clutch in a day if you want but if I did I'd be questioning whether I was lauching correctly. If you feel the clutch spin without the car going anywhere particularly fast you've just lost vital 0.1s of a second. When you get it right, you'll know as you'll by frantically reaching for 2nd!

[Edited by Saxo Boy - 11/11/2002 1:09:50 PM]

brickboy

.... never done a full-bore start in mine, too worried about the consequences .... but you still get off the line pretty smart by feeding in the clutch briskly at around 3K rpm .... once the clutch is fully home then stand on it!

LG John

Does this remind anyone of something else Maybe its just the way its written

stewart_mcg

I don't think I would be brave enough to dump the clutch at full revs, after all there's no fun to be had whilst your cars in the garage right? (well not for me anyway as I'm not very handy with the spanners) However the cars acceleration seems pretty wild, even from dawdling pace in first and second and third. I never got to full throttle in fourth on the test drive - wonder why?

scooby_jim

Hey Miles, Stewart!

I am originally from the Bloo Toon, moved down South with work last year....

Hmmm.. Afew days back while out and about for a thrash I tried a quick start. Meant to get away at about 5000rpm, but didn't pay attention and by the time the clutch bit it was at 6000rpm... Bit of a buring smell for some reason, may have been the tyres, got a bit of wheel spin, hope it wasn't the clutch!!

Jim

[Edited by scooby_jim - 11/11/2002 2:23:45 PM]

chrisp

Just ask the garage how much is a new clutch is fitted that should make you think twice .

EVOLUTION

make sure your fum lasts a few years, not months

johnfelstead

Neil, you really should be carefull what advice you are giving out with regards to driving because that is utter bollox mate!

Turbo_Steve

Uh oh...the moderators are going to fight it out

Neil Smalley

Sorry John.

So why is it wrong then? As I said i'm not any kind of expert in this, and in mitigation I did point to the driving techniques site...

If a car is going forwards in a straight line I understand there will be loads of grip, and going round a corner there will still be some grip of course. However, if there is (a controlled amount of) power going to the wheels then is'nt grip increased?

A sudden back off of power will cause grip levels to decrease and so unsettle the car.

Therefore the car only really grips when under power???

Feel free to put me right..

Neil Smalley

Started to read this stuff...
http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s...tech_index.htm

http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s..._4.htm#Neutral

http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_s...handling_5.htm

JF,I think we are getting at the same thing, only my lack of technical terminology and understanding is getting in the way..

johnfelstead

not sure what you mean by us getting the same thing neil?

Making a blanket statement that AWD cars only grip under power is plain wrong. Based on that if someone was in a major understeer situation you are suggesting they apply more power, that could find them with even more understeer. A tyre can only give a certain level of grip, be it in deceleration, acceleration of laterally, now if you are at its 100% capability of lateral G and you apply power you are going to reduce its lateral G capability.

Driving techniques are rarely well taught via the written word, the only really worthwhile written work is very in depth and discusses specific conditions and transitions. It is much better to experiment in a safe environment and with a good coach than to make a major statement which is just not correct.

Dont take this as being negative, but it worries me when i see this kind of thing written, there are no one liner rules you can tell people when it comes to driving techniques, every condition is diferent and takes experience to apreciate. Aplying more power to increase grip when you are in the **** could be your undoing if that isnt apropriate.

HKSubaru

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

Turbo_Steve

Told ya! Go on.....'it 'im! 'IT 'IM!


In defence of Neil, I think I pretty much know where he is coming from (though there is no way I ever talk about driving technique in text: I can't drive very well anyway, and writing it down would be a sin!)

In defence of John, I agree, I think a little knowledge can be too much power. I have had a '=crunch=' in my younger days because someone told me to always 'accelerate out of trouble'.
Doesn't work very well, that one.

Neil Smalley

I agree with what John's said. But will add that I did'nt add the common sense givens such as 'tyres only have so much grip' and 'it does'nt work in every case'. Because I thought these were self evident.

I'm quite prepared to be put right if it helps me and someone else out. That's one of the things that Scoobynet is for..

As stated aboce, the very best way to learn to use the car properly is with proper instruction and in a safe and controlled environment.

LG John

I think Neil's line of thinking is that if you go into a corner without power the car has a tendancy to step out of line. The key thing IMO is to always balance the car and where possible to share the load between all four corners of the car. Power can be used to balance a car but as John points out it can be used to upset it also. The bottom line is smooth, smooth, smooth

DavidRB

<IMHO>
Neil means that AWD gives you more grip when you accelerate, but it doesn't give you more grip under braking or cornering. Hence, if you are used to using FWD wheelspin to judge the available grip, you may find that you overestimate the available grip when you drive an Impreza that doesn't spin its wheels.
</IMHO>

Neil Smalley

Oh yes I can

The only way you can safely drive a car is to sit in the drivers seat

Subaru Impreza's are four wheel drive.

See. I can make as many blanket statements as I like

johnfelstead

Subaru Impreza's are AWD, only the typeR/RA's with the centre diff conrol set to diff lock can be classed as four wheel drive. LOL

you cant even get that right.

RB5320

it seems to me that AWD (or more specifically the impreza as I have driven very few other AWD cars) is less forgiving than FWD or RWD cars. Not only when driving at high speed. It is very easy to get major understeer at pretty low speeds in an Impreza when some other very average car in front goes round the same corner with no problem.
People jump in an Impreza having heard all the fantastic reviews about its legendary handling, wonderful grip etc and then can be very surprised by the reality. The fact that it can understeer, oversteer or 4 wheel drift, depending on how it is driven makes it quite a handful. You could go round a particular corner 3 times, driving slightly differently each time, with very different reactions from the car. My previous car (Mk1 MR2) was far more predictable.
I am not saying this is a bad thing, quite the opposite in fact. But it can certainly catch you out if you are not paying attention. This is why the only way to really learn the way the car handles is to take it to a track, where you can see for yourself what happens in different circumstances.

Steve