peelo

Reading the current thread on here and knowing how often this comes up on other car forums... I was wondering.

Since the problem seems to be related to specific Marques: Citroen / Peugeot, Vauxhall etc. if it might be time to hold manufacturers accountable. May seem mad, but this has been done with shoe manufacturers and street crime in the States.

Also Citroen very much market and sell the Saxo as a first car, including free insurance.

My first car at 17 was a Datsun 260Z which cost me an arm and both legs in insurance, so I treated it very carefully and although I had a fair few motorway thrashes & did the odd handbreak turn in an empty car park, I was a very carful young driver, which you have to be in a car like that which is the antithesis of driving something like a Saxo at 17.

swan

There's no incentive for the manufacturers, esp. if/when it's precisely that image that sells the car and is the reason they invest in F1/Rallying/whatever in the first place. Interesting comment about the shoe manufacturers, much easier in the USA to litigate/sue, etc. so there was probably more incentive.

peelo

Yeah I appreciate they have no incentive, but there is this whole thing happening where companies have to understand if they don't take an active involvement in their products after they have sold them, they will loose in the long run. If enough people kicked off and started pointing fingers at the specific companies they would listen. If for example fleet managers started to say they were going to go with someone else because they didn't want to be associated with marques who are essentially promoting illegal and stupid behaviour.

JoeyDeacon

This website gets funnier by the day....

So there are no boy racers in Impreza's who post about racing porsches?? None of you lot bolt on boot spoilers so big that you could use them as picnic tables? None of you tint your windows and stick huge SUBARU sun visors on your cars?? None of you have loud exhausts and post about how you love to drive through tunnels??

Hello!!! Wake up and look in the mirror you lot!! You are just the same as the stereotypical 17 year old in a Saxo it's just you have more money.

And even that isn't true anymore as you can buy an Early Impreza for less than the cost of a brand new Saxo. Face it people you take the **** out of people who modify Saxo's and Nova's when in actual fact Impreza owners are rapidly becoming the new boy racers that everyone looks down upon.

Discuss........

DavidRB

Because, of course, in the brave new American world, nobody is responsible for their actions. If anything bad happens to someone (they smoked, ate too much, dried their dog in a microwave) it is always the manufacturers'/government's/CIA's fault.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Fantom

I don't take this **** out of people who modify cars. I've always been into it. And yes now I have an Impreza I will modify that too. Not with stick on crap but with proper mods like the Sti 5 spoiler which is a genuine subaru part.
I think what the thread is getting at is the way people drive when they are young, but I'm sorry, it doesn't matter what car you drive when you are 17, you have to face it, it will always be fun to do stupid things when you first start driving.

DevilChild

ROFL @ Joey

Couldn't agree more.

The Crushinator

The original debate is about driving like tossers, not modifying cars

peelo

Just to clarify. This is not getting at modded cars or young drivers because yes we were all young drivers once and there is nothing wrong with good mods.

This is specific to the common complaint on every car forum I go to of people driving up and down 30MPH residential roads far too fast, making cars backfire, playing subs at midnight on housing estates etc. These people want to be seen and cause trouble. (The real old school road racers are off with their mates on deserted air strips as they always have been.)

MATTeL

I really confused how are shoe manufacturers responsible for street crime in America?

America, no longer the land of the free but land of the litgation lawyer!

LG John

You can only assess these things on a case by case basis. I had a VTS at aged 22, that did not make me a automatic boy racer and neither did having a scooby at 23 - even though the scooby is modified. I've had old men in 'normal' cars like 406's, BMW's etc sitting inches from my bumper looking for a race....so are they boy/men racers?

SiPie

No Kenny... they are to55ers..!

peelo

Saxo Boy: yeah I agree. But look at what happened at the legal criuse at Brooklands recently. Put on to replace the Guildford cruise, inside all was well, with cool cars being admired and even a burnout section. But meanwhile the Saxo 'n' Corsa crew were hooning it up in the entrance road. And fact was they were all very young drivers and they were driving Saxos and Corsas.

Harrymattson

Well said most of you! I was not in any way having a go at certain marques of car and the divers thereof. I was having a go at a certain group of individuals that seem not to care about anyone else. It is their arrogance and belligerent attitude that has really got my goat. This goes for all ages too, but at the moment in my town it just happens to be the youngsters that are causing the problems. They do drive other cars than those mentioned - all either modded in some way (no problem there) or scabby very cheap run-a-bouts as first cars (again been there done that and no problem) Its just the attitude that I, and many others, find objectionable.

As a point of humour, they sit on the main car park and make a right pain of them selves in between laps of the town - but when an artic happens to park up on the car park overnight they do not seem to bother comming out to play! I wonder if I have just stumbled on to the answer here - Get a big tired trucker to try and sleep where they are being a pain and let him (or indeed her in this enlightened age) sort 'em out

Matt

peelo

What was happening was people were getting killed over specific very expensive Nike trainers... it was felt they were a big monolithic company who wre exploiting foreign workers, and exploiting (generally poor) kids by bringing out shoes all the time, constantly updating, making ultra expensive limited editions etc... solution was Nike started to put money into projects to help in poor areas, which are the same areas where they were selling most of their shoes etc. Bit like McDonalds sponsoring litter bins. Maybe Citroen could sponsor speed ramps

LG John

The reason they drive saxo's, corsa's etc is because that's to a large degree all they can afford to buy and run. If for the same money they could buy and - here comes the key word - run an Impreza/EVO then they would and at that age would probably behave the same way. The same applies if they could afford to buy and run faster/better cars like 911's, M3's, etc they'd still rag them around.

Personally I don't mind the saxo, corsa guys because for the most part they are enthusiastic about there cars and have invested a lot of time and money on them. I have problems with the 'real' neds that have a £500 Nova or Astra GTE thats on its last legs and drive like a nutter because frankly they don't care if it gets totalled. However, there are no doubt many very decent cap wearing 17 years olds that can only afford a clapped out Nova but still drive it as responsibly as you could ever hope from a youngster and cause no harm - hence, case by case basis

JayCole

I have a P1 and a mooded 106GTI -

FACT - Some youngsters drive like complete to55ers........so do the elder people of this world that should know better!

What I hate as someone that has just said is people canning it through 30mph limits at silly speeds. Yep, I do drive fast but not stupiddly fast and sit an inch from peoples bumpers. Whats the point?!? other than likely to smash ya car up.

When I'm in my P1 I get so many 'boy' racers and the older people of this world sitting right up my ****. !

Younger people will always (me included i spose) always get labelled as boy racers but what can you do?

At the end of the day people drive a little silly at some points - let them get on with it and deal with it when they're sharing a cell with MR Big!

Something that annoys me more than the whole boy racer topic?........................Twocers and little vandeling ba5tards!!

EvilKyote

As a young driver myself I thought I might as well put in my two penny's worth.

I can agree with both sides of the argument, There are young drivers out there whose driving style is quite frankly psychotic! But I have to say the same for some older, supposedly mature drivers, ie 40 - 60 year olds! But to be fair the vast majority of these psychotic nutters are yound male drives who think they are gods gift to the motor world and can drive like a looney and think that they are the best driver in the world!!!

It's a shame that so many young drivers have to give the other young drivers, those who adhere to speed limits, especially in built up areas and who are very safe drivers, a bad name!

I'm 22 and currently taking the advanced driving course! Why? Well, I consider myself a very safe driver, But i don't think I am the best driver in the world, not by any means! and I certainly think that I can improve my driving skills to be an even better driver! Those people, including all you people over 40 who think you know it all, no matter how good a driver you are, there is always room for improvement.

Personally I think people should be given more tuition from the start to make them safe drivers and to help them understand that there is nothing wrong with driving safely and to within the law, and that if they drive like complete t0ssers then they are going to end up either dead, killing some innocent bystander or both!

Maybe they should make the advanced driving course a requirement, you can easily pick up 30 years worth of driving tips and techniques within a few months and be all the better for it. At the very least the pass plus scheme should be required to get a full licence!

And for the benifit of those of you who think driving safely means driving irritatingly slow, Like 15mph in a 30 zone, thats not the case, it's possible to drive fast while, importantly, still being safe and anticipating the road conditions etc.

Ok, Thats my say. Drive Safe everyone

DavidRB

Muggers stealing trainers because the manufacturer was exploiting foreign workers??? Do me a favour. People were stealing Nike trainers because they were a status symbol and worth a lot of money. Just like diamond rings, Rolex watches, BMWs and anything else easily nickable.

peelo

Yes, no one is doubting they are a status symbol, rightly or wrongly... the U.S establishment felt they should give something back. Which they now do That's the point, no more, no less.

[Edited by peelo - 10/15/2002 2:15:50 PM]

Stueyb

Whats wrong with Pugs I love mine and look after it well, no dodgy mods held on by rust *ahem* nova *ahem*. It may not be the fastest, but it looks smart and is fun to drive.

Davey P

iTrader: (1)

I don't think it is fair to treat everyone the same.
Idiots can drive many different cars, including Subaru's.
There will always be a minority that drive like nutters, it's just a fact of life

m18use

Does it really matter how someone else drives its up to them
they will suffer in the long run.you will always get boy racers
in any carbviously no one on here ever speeds and drives on the speed limit if i did i wouldnt have bought a scooby and at a guess everybody else is the same

Marky-San

Boy racers are the modern day equivalent of any rebellious teenage angst.

Gaz Jones

dont know if youve noticed, but you have to be over 21 in most places to get free insurance now, they got pi$$ed off with paying out i think. You have to be over 21 to get a vtr with free insurance for example.

(sorry if someone has said something about this already, im half asleep)

gaz

Gaz Jones

hold on, i dont drive one or anything, had a saxo at 17, erm....
im 24 now and drive a focus (sorry)

i have a mk1 golf as well!!!! (on twin 40`s)
mmmmm

im off for some sucky sucky!!!

gaz

LG John

Citroen Insurance and similar schemes is making a lot of fast cars available to young drivers. I only have 1 years no claims of my own (daddy's policy previously) but CI gave me a 6 years no-claims at the end of my free year. Quotes for the scooby dropped from £2.5k and up, to just £900 which is why I now have one

siwrx

well im 20 and into mods. I have to say 2 be honest suburu kits along with every companies aftermarket stuff is predominantly **** so i wont touch it, id rather put stuff from companies like c-west, veilside etc on the car along with blitz and hks than stick to the rather uninspiring bits that sti offer.

I think its hypocritical for people to slag off the citroen owners etc for modding their cars, especailly when ill bet that most of you saying this stuff have something not made by subaru in your cars. Blitz dumpvalve, hks exhaust, clear light clusters? whatever welcome to the world of max power as you have now modded your car and are in the same game as the nova owners.

I have to admit some stick on mods are very tacky, but then again some of the bi level subaru spoilers ive seen you guys buying are in my opinion rank. Its all down to taste and budget guys, i dont see myself as any different from anyone else who wants to improve their car, the fact it doesnt have a citroen badge means nothing

co55ie

And I am sure each and everyone of you has never driven like a pratt. Get down of your high horses some of you. Street racing is dangerous but each and everyone of us has done it at some time or another and I bet some bystander said look at that **** when we did it.
Funny then that if the modern generation are such a bunch of lunatics road traffic accidents are on the decrease and bear in mind that tolerance levels have changed. Look at the difference in pereption to drink - driving today than back in the 70's.

LG John

Cossie is right, very few of us can honestly say we haven't driven fast or had a race and those that do.......why did you buy a scoob