John Felstead's Next restoration project.
14 July 2000, 12:30 AM
#2
Nah, that's too slow for my tastes.
I have seen that car on the TV before now.
My posible next project is installing a 10 litre (yes ten) aluminium V8 into a westie, we have seen over 1,300BHP from the engine running it at 6psi boost on twin scroll superchargers on super unleaded. The engine is about 15% larger than a rover V8 so i recon it will fit with a squeeze.
We would have to install A Jerico Nascar box for the torque but my friend has one of those going spare, the biggest pain is the rear diff at the moment.
I can fit a Nascar back axle but thats too heavy for my tastes and i want to keep it independant so need to find a standalone diff unit.
Anyone got any ideas on that?
cheers
john
I have seen that car on the TV before now.
My posible next project is installing a 10 litre (yes ten) aluminium V8 into a westie, we have seen over 1,300BHP from the engine running it at 6psi boost on twin scroll superchargers on super unleaded. The engine is about 15% larger than a rover V8 so i recon it will fit with a squeeze.
We would have to install A Jerico Nascar box for the torque but my friend has one of those going spare, the biggest pain is the rear diff at the moment.
I can fit a Nascar back axle but thats too heavy for my tastes and i want to keep it independant so need to find a standalone diff unit.
Anyone got any ideas on that?
cheers
john
14 July 2000, 12:45 AM
#4
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its official John Felstead is bonkers 
Jesus, if the Scottish story wasn't enough to convince
us. What the smeg are you thinking man 1300bhp in a car that weighs less than a Jay cloth, are you serious??
Maybe you should fit wings to it as well, he he.
Jesus, if the Scottish story wasn't enough to convince
us. What the smeg are you thinking man 1300bhp in a car that weighs less than a Jay cloth, are you serious??Maybe you should fit wings to it as well, he he.
Blimey. Is this the Espirt engine your talking about?
14 July 2000, 01:15 PM
#7
Mark, thats the 5 litre engine we built for the esprit, its based on the rover V8 but the only Rover part on the engine is the block casting and timing cover.
The 10 litre engine was built to go into the esprit but my mate doesnt want to drive it with that amount of power for some reason
The 10 litre is a very rare block indeed, its from the old Can-Am years and was designed to go into my friends McLaren M8F he was racing back then in the Interserie and Can-AM.
Unfortunately the rules changed before it could be used and has sat in his workshop for 25 years.
We have modernised the injection system and are using the fairly new concept scroll superchargers on it. We wanted to run at 14PSI boost but the superchargers were stalling so we have backed the boost off to a safe 6psi.
I dont understand why you think i am mad, cars were running 25 years ago in the Can-AM with 1,300 BHP.
Of course i will have a much stronger chasis than normal and put some groupC brakes we have spare on the car, i aint stupid. We already have the aero package sorted, for high speed tracks we have a porche Group C package, for circuits like donington we have some modified high downforce F1 multi-element wings.
The 10 litre engine was built to go into the esprit but my mate doesnt want to drive it with that amount of power for some reason
The 10 litre is a very rare block indeed, its from the old Can-Am years and was designed to go into my friends McLaren M8F he was racing back then in the Interserie and Can-AM.
Unfortunately the rules changed before it could be used and has sat in his workshop for 25 years.
We have modernised the injection system and are using the fairly new concept scroll superchargers on it. We wanted to run at 14PSI boost but the superchargers were stalling so we have backed the boost off to a safe 6psi.
I dont understand why you think i am mad, cars were running 25 years ago in the Can-AM with 1,300 BHP.
Of course i will have a much stronger chasis than normal and put some groupC brakes we have spare on the car, i aint stupid. We already have the aero package sorted, for high speed tracks we have a porche Group C package, for circuits like donington we have some modified high downforce F1 multi-element wings.
Trending Topics
14 July 2000, 01:19 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 1,128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John 
I take back all I have said it seems you REALLY have some outstanding contacts and you thoroughly know what you are doing, there is a fine line between Mad man and Genius, he he.
I take back all I have said it seems you REALLY have some outstanding contacts and you thoroughly know what you are doing, there is a fine line between Mad man and Genius, he he.
14 July 2000, 03:54 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John, have you figured out how to fit a fuel tank big enough to feed the beast? It may be counter-productive to your power/weight ratio quest. Your specific output is 130 bhp/litre, higher than the UK turbo, so it should drink at a rate of at least 5 times that of the 2 litre engine. Go figure!
[This message has been edited by lokokkee (edited 14-07-2000).]
[This message has been edited by lokokkee (edited 14-07-2000).]
14 July 2000, 09:43 PM
#14
I have already calculated the fuel requirements from the dyno runs when we were setting the engine up.
I am going to have to limit the cars runs to 10 lap stints then refuel. I need a 70 Litre fuel tank for 10 lap full throttle runs and that is easy to achieve as long as i run the car without a boot box.
The fuel system is pretty radical, we are running 4 high pressure fuel pumps in parallel, 2 per bank and feeding these from 2 intank ATL lift pumps, these feed 2 swirl pots that feed 2 pumps each. Hope that makes sense.
We are having to run -10 on the presurised side of the pumps and -12 on the feed side to the pumps, any smaller and we get cavitation on the high presure pumps.
The engine is actually very light for a 10 litre unit as it was specially designed in the USA at the height of the Can-Am battles between Porche and McLaren, Denny Hulme raced a 9 litre version in his McLaren M8F car and just held off Mark Donohue in his porche, the porche at the time was the most powerfull race engine ever made with over 1300BHP on some enormous turbo's, the drivability was very poor however with no real ECU control systems to iron out the lag.
My friend who used to race a Can-AM car himself was one of Denny Hulmes friends and he actually built the GT40 engines used by JW Automotive at Le Mans that powered Jackie Ickx to his first Le Mans win. That's how we have access to the Can-AM development parts and groupC brakes etc as he was part of the original projects.
The engine is aprox 15% heavier than a cosworth turbo with all the turbo ancileries, we have to add onto that the manifold weight and the supercharger weight so i expect the full package to be 20% heavier.
I have calculated the car with all the larger gearboxes and diffs, wheels and driveshafts to be approx 1000Kg so we should be seeing 1300BHP/tonne which should make the car pretty stagering on the race tracks. It will be a whale compaired to my current car through the corners but with the extra downforce we have engineered in i expect the corner speeds to be higher, just not so nimble.
I just hope the race track owners dont over react to the cars performance, as it should be capable of Group C lap times, only it will be the straights where the time will be gained most so should be hitting 180MPH at donington for example.
We shall see, lots to sort out still but getting there, i was trying to keep this secret until nearer completion but thought what the hell when neil posted.
Oh, mike, the engines not for sale mate, i dont own it and couldnt afford it, i am just lucky i have a friend who is the best in his field, sadly he cant drive himself now so its up to me.
I am going to have to limit the cars runs to 10 lap stints then refuel. I need a 70 Litre fuel tank for 10 lap full throttle runs and that is easy to achieve as long as i run the car without a boot box.
The fuel system is pretty radical, we are running 4 high pressure fuel pumps in parallel, 2 per bank and feeding these from 2 intank ATL lift pumps, these feed 2 swirl pots that feed 2 pumps each. Hope that makes sense.
We are having to run -10 on the presurised side of the pumps and -12 on the feed side to the pumps, any smaller and we get cavitation on the high presure pumps.
The engine is actually very light for a 10 litre unit as it was specially designed in the USA at the height of the Can-Am battles between Porche and McLaren, Denny Hulme raced a 9 litre version in his McLaren M8F car and just held off Mark Donohue in his porche, the porche at the time was the most powerfull race engine ever made with over 1300BHP on some enormous turbo's, the drivability was very poor however with no real ECU control systems to iron out the lag.
My friend who used to race a Can-AM car himself was one of Denny Hulmes friends and he actually built the GT40 engines used by JW Automotive at Le Mans that powered Jackie Ickx to his first Le Mans win. That's how we have access to the Can-AM development parts and groupC brakes etc as he was part of the original projects.
The engine is aprox 15% heavier than a cosworth turbo with all the turbo ancileries, we have to add onto that the manifold weight and the supercharger weight so i expect the full package to be 20% heavier.
I have calculated the car with all the larger gearboxes and diffs, wheels and driveshafts to be approx 1000Kg so we should be seeing 1300BHP/tonne which should make the car pretty stagering on the race tracks. It will be a whale compaired to my current car through the corners but with the extra downforce we have engineered in i expect the corner speeds to be higher, just not so nimble.
I just hope the race track owners dont over react to the cars performance, as it should be capable of Group C lap times, only it will be the straights where the time will be gained most so should be hitting 180MPH at donington for example.
We shall see, lots to sort out still but getting there, i was trying to keep this secret until nearer completion but thought what the hell when neil posted.
Oh, mike, the engines not for sale mate, i dont own it and couldnt afford it, i am just lucky i have a friend who is the best in his field, sadly he cant drive himself now so its up to me.
15 July 2000, 11:13 AM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gloucestershire, home of the lawnmower.
Posts: 4,531
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John,
I feel another "John Does Dono" video coming on
This project sounds awesome, now the cat is out of the bag (and running for it's life) please keep us updated on the progress.
Cheers
Ian
I feel another "John Does Dono" video coming on
This project sounds awesome, now the cat is out of the bag (and running for it's life) please keep us updated on the progress.
Cheers
Ian
16 July 2000, 06:09 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jan 1999
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
John,
I applaud you!!
A couple of questions:
- would the engine have been used with superchargers in the Can-Am races and how much power would the engine produce without them?
- what size rubber do you envisage using?
You've just GOT to do this!
Paul
I applaud you!!
A couple of questions:
- would the engine have been used with superchargers in the Can-Am races and how much power would the engine produce without them?
- what size rubber do you envisage using?
You've just GOT to do this!
Paul
17 July 2000, 11:07 AM
#18
OK guys, confession time. 
You lot must think i am completely barking mad
LOL
It's a windup, i am joking, there is no way i would dream of putting a 1300BHP engine in a westfield, the torque would snap the chassis in 2 and as for cooling the thing, i am strugling to get 350BHP under control, 1300BHP would need radiators galore, the car just aint big enough. LOL
Right, so is everything i have posted total bull, well no, most is actually fact which is why it reads so well.
I do have access to a 10 litre alloy V8 race engine although it is N/A at the moment. My friend did build the GT40 engines that won at Le Mans, he did race a McLaren CanAm car and was Denny Hulmes friend and race engineer, I do have access to Group C brakes and porche Le Mans wings and i do use modified F1 wings on the esprit race car. Everything i have written is based on fact and is achievable technically, 1300BHP from a 10 litre V8 on twin superchargers is actually a small output, we have built a 4.7 litre V8 twin turbo engine that produces 947BHP for a land speed record attempt car.My explanation of the fuel system requirements is spot on, as is the transmition system, Denny Hulme did race a 9 litre alloy V8 in the CanAm against the 1300BHP porche of Donahue.
The picture is of the 5 litre V8 race engine i built for the esprit, it was totally unique at the time as it is the prototype engine of some very radical new heads for the rover V8, they are the stage 1 heads, the engine on carbs in that form of tune (very mild) is giving 420BHP, the stage 2 heads in production are producing 450BHP on super unleaded, there is a guy in New Zealand who is running one of these engines on Avgas and getting 550BHP, thats totally unheard of from a rover V8 in N/A spec.
The stage 2 engine was also raced in the FIA GT championship for 1 year in the factory Morgan and knocked 10 seconds a lap off around silverstone with no other changes to the car. It was on some mega expensive EFI injection system worth about 10K but did complete all its 4 hour races with no engine problems.
Sorry guys, just couldnt resist when the oportunity arose, i am obviously a little bit bonkers driving a 350BHP westfield but i am not completely hatstand yet LOL
Then again, 1300BHP is tempting.
You lot must think i am completely barking mad
LOLIt's a windup, i am joking, there is no way i would dream of putting a 1300BHP engine in a westfield, the torque would snap the chassis in 2 and as for cooling the thing, i am strugling to get 350BHP under control, 1300BHP would need radiators galore, the car just aint big enough. LOL
Right, so is everything i have posted total bull, well no, most is actually fact which is why it reads so well.
I do have access to a 10 litre alloy V8 race engine although it is N/A at the moment. My friend did build the GT40 engines that won at Le Mans, he did race a McLaren CanAm car and was Denny Hulmes friend and race engineer, I do have access to Group C brakes and porche Le Mans wings and i do use modified F1 wings on the esprit race car. Everything i have written is based on fact and is achievable technically, 1300BHP from a 10 litre V8 on twin superchargers is actually a small output, we have built a 4.7 litre V8 twin turbo engine that produces 947BHP for a land speed record attempt car.My explanation of the fuel system requirements is spot on, as is the transmition system, Denny Hulme did race a 9 litre alloy V8 in the CanAm against the 1300BHP porche of Donahue.
The picture is of the 5 litre V8 race engine i built for the esprit, it was totally unique at the time as it is the prototype engine of some very radical new heads for the rover V8, they are the stage 1 heads, the engine on carbs in that form of tune (very mild) is giving 420BHP, the stage 2 heads in production are producing 450BHP on super unleaded, there is a guy in New Zealand who is running one of these engines on Avgas and getting 550BHP, thats totally unheard of from a rover V8 in N/A spec.
The stage 2 engine was also raced in the FIA GT championship for 1 year in the factory Morgan and knocked 10 seconds a lap off around silverstone with no other changes to the car. It was on some mega expensive EFI injection system worth about 10K but did complete all its 4 hour races with no engine problems.
Sorry guys, just couldnt resist when the oportunity arose, i am obviously a little bit bonkers driving a 350BHP westfield but i am not completely hatstand yet
LOLThen again, 1300BHP is tempting.
17 July 2000, 01:38 PM
#21
Knowing my mate, it will probably sit in a corner of his workshops for another 25 years!!
You ought to see some of the kit he has stored on his shelves, it would bring tears to the eyes of anyone desperate for genuine GT40 and GroupC parts, last year i had in my hands the last pair of genuine brand new gurney weslake heads from the batch used at Le Mans, we are talking seriously rare kit.
You ought to see some of the kit he has stored on his shelves, it would bring tears to the eyes of anyone desperate for genuine GT40 and GroupC parts, last year i had in my hands the last pair of genuine brand new gurney weslake heads from the batch used at Le Mans, we are talking seriously rare kit.
17 July 2000, 04:09 PM
#22
John,
Could you please measure the engine to see if it would fit in my car. I am willing to move the driving seats to the back, if this needs to be done to make the engine fit.
Do you think my brakes will be up to it, or should I uprate these as well? Also what gearbox do you think I should use as the T5s limit is not much over 500bhp. I thought about a 3 speed automatic. Will the torque converter be up to the job?
What revs will it pull? I believe if I put on a 3.10 diff and a 0.62 fifth gear that the car would pull 276.1mph. Do you think I could get up to this speed (given the 0.43Cd) at Bruntingthorpe?
Can the engine run on normal pump fuel?
If a bigger supercharger was fitted, do you think we could squeeze another 200bhp out of it (still using normal super unleaded). As I presume it does not do many miles per gallon, what power loss do you think would occur in the switch to 95 octane unleaded?
Would a lamda SENSOR improve the running?
Could you please advise me of the bore / stroke so I can calculate the maximum safe revs, as I think it would probably be unwise to rev it past 6000?
If you believe it can be shoe-horned into a Cossie bay, do you think it will have the power to beat Stef round Donington?
Many thanks and best regards
Mike
PS. Will your mate accept VISA?
PPS. I can't believe ANYONE fell for this...
Could you please measure the engine to see if it would fit in my car. I am willing to move the driving seats to the back, if this needs to be done to make the engine fit.
Do you think my brakes will be up to it, or should I uprate these as well? Also what gearbox do you think I should use as the T5s limit is not much over 500bhp. I thought about a 3 speed automatic. Will the torque converter be up to the job?
What revs will it pull? I believe if I put on a 3.10 diff and a 0.62 fifth gear that the car would pull 276.1mph. Do you think I could get up to this speed (given the 0.43Cd) at Bruntingthorpe?
Can the engine run on normal pump fuel?
If a bigger supercharger was fitted, do you think we could squeeze another 200bhp out of it (still using normal super unleaded). As I presume it does not do many miles per gallon, what power loss do you think would occur in the switch to 95 octane unleaded?
Would a lamda SENSOR improve the running?
Could you please advise me of the bore / stroke so I can calculate the maximum safe revs, as I think it would probably be unwise to rev it past 6000?
If you believe it can be shoe-horned into a Cossie bay, do you think it will have the power to beat Stef round Donington?
Many thanks and best regards
Mike
PS. Will your mate accept VISA?
PPS. I can't believe ANYONE fell for this...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
johnnybon
Wheels And Tyres For Sale
7
25 September 2015 07:49 AM
JonMc
Non Car Related Items For sale
0
12 September 2015 09:33 AM