Krade

Having worked for a car dealer in the past I know what you mean, You will always hear the bad things, hardly ever the good, and its always the negative that gets the most publicity. Put it down to watchdog and top gear If they had had a report on good garages and dealers instead of the forever breaking down fronteria saga etc then maybe the animosity wouldnt exist. Its the same with any service industry.

Spares from a dealer are outragously over priced, for instance I needed a drop link arm for a Pug 205 gti, from a dealer £57 + Vat, from German swedish and french (3rd party sup) £15 inc vat each. No I know that manufactures set the trade price, and theres mark up for the garage but how can you justify a difference of £50??
Thats better than Dixons mark up on an item of the same cost like a cd walkman etc.



[Edited by Krade - 9/4/2002 4:06:02 PM]

ScoobyDoo555

Likewise - credit where credit's due - nice one for actually asking. Most dealers are to arrogant to even entertain this concept!!!

My local dealer isn't too bad - just very elitist with who they sell to. I've got a (now) old MY95. Like most other people, I sacrificed an awful lot to purchase the car, but when I went to change the car, they were only really interested in new cars/new customers (IMHO!!)

The service dept, in all fairness, are bad at all - just very pricey! How an internationally recognised service interval can cost so different depending on your postcode still confuses me!! [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] "We have higher costs" doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid. The prices should be set (and a damn sight cheaper!!)

I think also, that alot of people have been burnt by staff who just didn't want the work.

The days of Subaru relying on the JD Power Survey results have now gone. Dealers should stop relying on success that is now old hat and non-existant (the embarrassing efforts of SWRT, for example)

Recently, I had to produce a training video for Mercedes - the same type of thing (previously, Mercedes had relied on the badge selling the product...not anymore I'm sorry to say!!) Their sales people actually had to sell a car!!!!

The video demonstrated sales techniques etc.... perhaps IM should think about this.....

what about better deals for the customer? (please!!! I really want a WRX 5dr!!!)

Hope this is constructive

Dan[/b]

[Edited by ScoobyDoo555 - 9/4/2002 4:07:41 PM]

TurboBoost

Re: Krades point on mark ups. Official Subaru dealers must make far more money on secondhand cars.
e.g. buy or take a PX MY00 Turbo for 11k, sell for 16k. Hey presto a 5 grand profit.
I mean who the **** buys them for 16k?

[Edited by TurboBoost - 9/4/2002 11:46:52 PM]

Krade

I did originally have "the 2nd hand market is a differnet ball game" on the end of my post, but seeing as most people here are talking about new cars I though I wouldnt mention it.

Yes there is deff more money in the 2nd hand game, but take into consideration how little they make on new cars. 2nd hand cars would make a fair percentage of the money, they still cost the dealers money, any body work, mechanical work that would need doing, valeting inspections etc. Any discount or freebies will come from the ticket price as will any extrra for your trade in.

Ever noticed how you can haggle more on a 2nd hand car? They have a bigger margin to allow this leeway so its down to the customer to push for the deal you are happy with, the last thing they want is for you to walk out with doing a deal. If you stick to your guns without being unreasonable you can get what you want. THeres no denying that the salesman like the customer who is willing to pay the asking price, taking the PX offer with no haggling. But they are few and far between.
How much better would it feel if you knew you had pulled all the strings and got a gr8 deal by sticking to your guns and beating down the salesman to your price.


[Edited by Krade - 9/5/2002 12:47:56 AM]

hail-hail

PC, I assume you are talking about BMW Stevenage, a total shower of sh1te.
I also bought a Mini Cooper for the wife (private with 300 on clock) and took it to this mob for warranty fixes.
After being back on 4 seperate occassions for the same problem and my wife being treated like a piece of crap I fely enough was enough.
She realy felt that people had looked down their noses at her.
Comments like "It's under warranty so why do YOU need to know whats wrong with it!"
I went there and kicked up a fair old stink. Eventually the Servicing manager admitted they were at fault and the employee would be "re-trained" in his approach to the public.
What they failed to realise was I was strongly considering swapping my Scoob for a shiny new M3, but any chance of that had went. Obviously the can afford to lose 30Kish sales.
As for Scoobys, Quemby in Baldock have been very helpful every time I've been there, even offered to service my import, but the waiting time was too long.

X2 WRX, is there a policy on Imports, it seems like some dealers see them as no different to the UK scoob, others let you know that you are actually the spawn of the devil.


edited for apooling spooling

[Edited by hail-hail - 9/5/2002 10:36:00 AM]

Little Miss WRX

Exactly what I was going to say!

I have never had a UK car, but have always had a good banter with the salesmen at Holdcroft Subaru in Newcastle whenever I pop along to have a nosey

Edited cos they are in Newcastle not Stoke

[Edited by Little Miss WRX - 9/5/2002 11:43:21 AM]

Tony_W

Ian,

I live in Lancs and imported a WRX through an ex subaru dealer-now importer (no names but just N of Preston!)

I'm approaching first service (7,500)and don't really want to give the importer my money any more, due to 2 previous problems with what I considered faults..and they didn't (like 5th gear syncromesh going after 500 miles!!).

No problem I thought, so I'll phone some local dealers for prices. All but one...YOU said "Won't touch Imports mate..try elsewhere".

So despite the distance I will have to travel, and given that you are interested in what your customers (and prospective customers)have to say about service levels...looks like I'll be coming up to Carlisle !!


The whole episode with the local dealers has put me off buying another Scoob. Given that I would have been happy to buy a UK Spec Scoob in the future instead of an import I am now so fed up of Subaru that I can't see myself doing so and will probably spend my money elsewhere.

p.s. the importer was also not interested in me when I first went into the showroom no doubt because I had tracksuit bottoms on (recovering from an op on both legs). EVEN when I explained I wanted to pay cash he dismissed me. Had it been any other car I would have walked away...now I've learnt...next time I will.

Here's hoping that future dealings with Subaru dealers will re-instate my desire to purchase another, and hats off for welcoming comment to improve what sounds like an excellent dealership aleady!

Tony

[Edited by Tony_W - 9/5/2002 12:37:10 PM]

scoobycar60

I am very pleased with the level of care and service at Adams in Aylesbury. I have bought 2 cars (WRXMY01 STI7MY02) from them with no problems, I have always found the staff friendly and attentive.

X2WRX I must complement you on posting here and taking note of our comments. Your attitude is refreshing and your posts informative.

I hope your willingness to service Japanese imports is copied by other dealers that have a less relaxed attitude to servicing these cars. I used to run an import Sti a few years ago, of all the things that narked me most was the unhelpfulness shown by official dealers to my problems.....almost put me off Subarus altogether.

I have often heard good things said about your dealership....keep up the good work!

[Edited by scoobycar60 - 9/5/2002 9:15:24 PM]

ianfergus0n

Edited to remove double post

[Edited by ianfergus0n - 9/6/2002 1:32:53 PM]

X2WRX

As a Subaru dealer, this is a question we are always asking?

The distain and general hatred of dealers that comes across in some of the threads astounds me.(are we all that bad)

What can the Subaru dealer network or us as a dealer do to change this?

Please don't take this as a red rag to a bull, as I am genuinely interested in you comments on how dealers can improve their level of service to you, our prospective customers.

Cheers

Ian

RB5320

Well, I for one would like to applaud you for making this effort. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to help you because my local dealer (SGT) has been superb. I have recently bought my second car from them and have had no major concerns in 3 years of dealing with them.

SCOSaltire

be open and honest about the problems with the cars and try to fix them instead of 'they all do that'.

when anyone gets that - they and other spend ages getting to the bottom of the problem and sorting it.

thats my biggest problem with dealers - some will help, some wont... its a pain in the *** having to try to persuade them...

instead of getting 'its the way you drive it'
and ignoring 'it just started doing this - what do u mean they all do it?'

trust us that we do notice the problem and can help to fix it.

the my99 2500-3000 hesitation is a great example.
as is the juddering clutch.

and some dealers not accepting decatted exhausts while others do.

no red rag needed

STI MAN

I've had absolutely no problems with CVC. I've bought 3 cars through them.

Some poeple will always complain, no matter how good / bad the service.

"You haven't bruhed the suede bits after the service to look like the car's not been sat in! I'm off to another dealer now"

HKSubaru

don't hate them, just find some not that helpful, slow and expensive. Though a certain branch was very rude when i didn't buy a car on the spot. So i hate that one.

HKSubaru

Just like to add i would love you if you gave me a subaru for free!

rich a

good service from lancaster's at pangbourne....except when they sent my wheels to be refurbished at elite wheels who in my opinion should all work at fads instead of refurbishing expensive alloys

Marky-San

Firstly I think everyones experience is different when it comes to dealers. I used to like Fords, but the dealers are not the best. Mazda dealers believe they are 2nd only to royalty. Vauxhall dealers I've found to be excellent.

Mine is just a general problem, not really a complaint - I have a Jap import, and anytime I've approached the dealers, all but one, have just been plain rude. It does amazes me as although its a jap produced product, last time I looked the badge clearly says Subaru.

Fortunately, there is now a healthy import parts sub-scene which I use, and find quicker, cheaper and more helpful. Also there are sites like ScoobyNet / SIDC, so any queries are answered quickly by like minded individuals.

Never had a UK car for comparison unfortunately, but to put it simply I dont believe my car is inferior/2nd rate because its not a UK derivative.

I dont think you'll be able to get a definitive answer to your question. But top marks for testing the water.

'kin quick2

Ian,
Heres one way to make your dealers better :-

I live in Romford and was looking for a new Scoob WRX so naturally went to the nearest dealers. I visited the dealer a few times and test drove a car, showed my interest and signed a form that the salesman ensured me was for "interest in the vehicle only and not binding".
Spent 2 weeks thinking about it and visiting other dealers, asked the dealer for all finance details he had to be sent to me, he told me he would "pop them in the post 1st class" (seemed like a nice chappie!)
A week past without the details, went into the dealership and he sat me down and showed me some figures, I told him the other dealer could do it cheaper and he said he could match it, waited another week, still no details.
Visited 3rd time and he was busy, his colleague said he couldnt get anywhere near the price stated, waited for over an hour (was not a happy bunny after hearing that) he sat me down and told me a totally different price to the one he stated the previous week. I told him I wasnt happy and he said he could match the other dealers price again and the details were in the post.
A week later and STILL no details!!!!! So I went to the other dealer and sorted a deal for part-ex with him, called the first dealer who offered me more but still could not tell me how much it was going to cost - not being funny but I like to know how much i'm gonna pay for a car!!
Told him I was going to the second dealer as he still didnt know how much he was going to charge me for the car (now the sparks started to fly), he then raised his voice and stated that I had signed a legal document to buy the car and that I had mucked him about!! (I HAD MUCKED HIM ABOUT!!! - I WAS NOT HAPPY WITH THAT) All I wanted was to know the price of a car that HE was selling and after 4 weeks of different prices he still could'nt tell me and he still didnt know how to use a letter box!!, he told me he didnt want to see me again and that I could'nt have my car serviced there!! After the way he treated me i would'nt even think of having my car serviced there.

I am picking my WRX up on Saturday from a dealer who actually knows the price of the cars he is selling and hasnt accused me of breaking a non-existing contract.

May be a one off but it really made me think about getting a different car.

munna

sell both the car and the aftercare as a package....don't just sell the car and see commission!!

i am sure you know who I am??

how is business?

Jen

I don't like one's that make assumptions about you - being 23 and female I found the experience of buying a Scooby interesting...e.g. I'd ask a salesman at a certain dealer a question - he'd answer looking at my husband, my husband was offered the test drive, my husband was given the business card - annoying when I was asking the questions!!

The other assumption was on the test drive, of course being young, we'd want to see the car thrashed from cold and doing a powerslide around a roundabout in a 30mph zone at rush hour... We didn't buy that one

On the plus side - the mechanics service department at the dealer treats me like I would like to be treated, explaining without being patronising, being friendly, open and honest and acutally showing an enthusiasm for the cars We never get away without a 15 minute talk about the latest mods and the future plans I reckon if you run the entire dealership like that - you've got it sorted

Jen

Dunc20

I am a reasonably new subaru owner, had it bout 5mths. The car was due a service bout 3mths in to me owning it.

I booked it into what i thought was my most local dealership, wont name names, (cheadle area). This particular dealership showed intense incompitence and a distinct lack of customer service to me by ringing me the morning of my service after i'd driven for an hour in bad traffic to casually let me know they'd cancelled my service because a technician had called in sick (this was at 10am, services open at 8.30am!). They offered to book me in 2 weeks later!!!

However someone refered me to a much closer, newly opened dealership in Widnes which i then booked my car into, even tho the guys there werent properly set up and were working from porta cabins, they were down to earth, quick and efficient and 60quid cheaper then what the service would have orginally cost me the first time round!

I put it down to the area, and also the fact of me being a 20 year old subaru owner some dealers may choose to turn their nose up at me!

I'm glad you put this post on here tho, because it shows someone in the industry cares enough to try and get some constructive critisism! Take my hat off to ya!

Dunc.

scoob_babe

Adams in Aylesbury were very good when we wanted to buy our scoob. For once, I was taken seriously by the sales guys who spoke to me as an intelligent human being as opposed to some girl with the guy who wanted a car (unlike a certain dealer selling Accord Type Rs).
Nothing was too much of a problem and nearly 2yrs down the line still good although slightly forgetful to ring when supposed to.

MrDBM

Ian,

I'd agree with the other chaps in that it's quite commendable that you're asking the questions. I suspect that most dealers are fine, in fact your dealership is one of the better examples - speaking from direct experience. There are always some bad apples and a certain dealership in Kendal would be my first choice.

My only couple of general complaints (well, more like observations really) would be;

1. A bit of complacency - yes Scoobs are good cars and everyone wants one, but a lot of dealers take that as a reason to provide less than perfect service. It would be great if we could take things back to 1995/1996 when I would say that selling a Scoob would be a a lot harder, hence service a lot better.

2. Arrogance (maybe that's a little harsh) but we've all felt it in some way I suspect - I have an 18 month old car, and some dealerships make you feel like if you're not driving a 4 second old WRX STI PPP XYZ beast - it's not worth their time!

As I say, just observations really, but judging by my last visit to SP's - you don't have all that much to worry about.

Scrappy2

Good topic - Ive used SGT for the last three years since buying my car from them and they've been nothing but helpful - a tad expensive, but courteous and knowledgeable[sp] (the sales guy still remembers my first name from three years ago)...

MattW

Just bought an STI, and traded in my WRX.

Dealer 1(2 miles): Didn't want my MY01
Dealer 2(10 miles): Promised a top price, would ring back on Mon morning. Never did.
Dealer 3(50 miles): Helpful, friendly and honest, gave me a fair price, bought the car and very happy.

Just a small selection in the local area, how many people would have given up at dealer 2.

Jodster

Workshop Manager at Cheam Motors just has attitude. Mention anything out of the ordinary (brake calipers going green, map reader lights expire every six months) and he looks really put out.

Sales guy is pleasant enough though and can still name the extras I had on my MY00 two years later.

eboyling

I had mixed experiences from the same guy.

Bought a car (3 year old MY98), when I was picking it, he opened the car using the remote for me. I checked everything else and it was OK. He even picked up on a tapping in the engine (I couldn't hear), ordered the parts and serviced it under warrenty.

However, I came back the day after buying it cos the remote keyfob wasn't working correctly, he couldn't care less as it wasn't covered under warrenty. I had owned the car about 15 hours (of which most were night) and the fact I'd paid 17500 meant nothing. He did say he could sell me a new alarm though!

Won't be going back there for two reasons, the second being UK prices can't match import prices (saving 5000 quid)!

chrisp

Actually dealt with 4 Subaru dealerships and all have been very good. I think theres a few reasons for problems though

1) Dont service or help out grey import owners something that other mnufacuturers are doing. Having said that my local dealer gave me some good advice and help as much as they could with a problem with my import.

2) Pricing compared to Euro imports and how some Euro import owners are dealt with ie difficult warranty claims, no hire cars

3) One of the biggest problem is that there are very good tuners and specialists about who are very confident in servicing and fixing the cars and not as expensive.

X2WRX

Thanks everyone for the frank and fair replies.

Keep them coming, they will benifit everyone in the long run.

Ian

P.S Business is good (Munna)

Nigel H

Be honest about Euro imports.

The spec difference is minimal - don't try to make it out to be something when it isn't.

It would be nice if I could p-ex a Euro at a dealer if I wanted....but that's not your call it's IM's