rockingham last saturday
16 July 2001, 12:12 AM
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jon
any chance of a blow by blow account of the track. I race there this coming weekend and am too tight to stump up paying for testing on friday. Any hairy corners etc?
Dave
any chance of a blow by blow account of the track. I race there this coming weekend and am too tight to stump up paying for testing on friday. Any hairy corners etc?
Dave
16 July 2001, 11:03 AM
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Went to rockingham on saturday with easytrack. Bit of a strange circuit - reminded me of Bedford Autodrome GT only with a huge banking "straight" rather than the massive back straight at beford.
Its got to qualify as the track thats hardest on your brakes though - 2 brakes from well into three figures down to second / low third gears hairpins and a couple of other big braking corners. Totally stuffed my brakes (mintex's with 5.1 fluid); which i've never managed to do before even at donnington GP on slicks...
jon
Its got to qualify as the track thats hardest on your brakes though - 2 brakes from well into three figures down to second / low third gears hairpins and a couple of other big braking corners. Totally stuffed my brakes (mintex's with 5.1 fluid); which i've never managed to do before even at donnington GP on slicks...
jon
16 July 2001, 03:10 PM
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Jon which Mintex do you Run ? 1155 ?
Is it the standard discs ?
I use Mintex 1155, with std discs which work very well on my CTR (exactly same set up as ITR).
My brother has just bought a Teg and i am in the process of buying some grooved discs which would help for both of us, if you would be intrested let me know as i might get a better discount for three sets.
I am surprised they took such a hammering, i came back from the ring and did not encounter problems. Were you running slicks ?
Glad you had a fun day, its a bit to far for me to travel at the moment but i am sure i will do next year.
Matt
Is it the standard discs ?
I use Mintex 1155, with std discs which work very well on my CTR (exactly same set up as ITR).
My brother has just bought a Teg and i am in the process of buying some grooved discs which would help for both of us, if you would be intrested let me know as i might get a better discount for three sets.
I am surprised they took such a hammering, i came back from the ring and did not encounter problems. Were you running slicks ?
Glad you had a fun day, its a bit to far for me to travel at the moment but i am sure i will do next year.
Matt
16 July 2001, 03:47 PM
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yep -1155's, though i've just bought some mardi gras disks with the competition pads (1177's ?). And i use dot 5.1 fluid. First time i've had any brake problems...
A brief run through the circuit, although I'm not sure if this'll be of any use as they've got a half dozen or so configurations they can use - from full oval to go-kart track.
Anyway out the pits and onto the oval, on a flying lap you've been through a chicain but are still doing 100+ when you have to brake for a 3rd gr left 180 hairpin, it falls away from you - bit like goddards at donnington. Go deep, miss the first apex then clip the second, running right out on exit. Short run (getting back over to the left) to a 90 right hander which turns up a short hill - easy to go in too fast here, immediatly followed by blind turn in to a 90 right.
Run out only to half way on exit coz you want to get hard over right for a left followed by a right - i can take that section pretty much flat in 3rd if i get the first blind right hander correct. Out of the last right, let the car settle, then hard brake and into another left 180 turn, this one quite flat and wide, although again I miss the first apex going deep and run over the second on exit. Short run up to 4th gr, slight brake, down to 3rd a fast left hander that you can power from just after entry holding the apex for a while then flat out to the other side.
Short run and then a very slow 180 right hairpin, down to second. The track is very wide on exit so I could never work out whether to hold the apex for a while or just boot it and head out to the far side of the track early. Reminded me of the Melbourne loop at donnington - whatever you did felt crap. Anyway, up through 3rd and 4th along a straight. Slight brake into 3rd and power through a flat 90 right which runs very wide on exit.
Flat in fourth through a kink up to a left 180 2nd gear hairpin. This one takes you out onto the oval. On the Oval, up wide to start with then as it begins to turn you come right down to the bottom. As your speed increases you come out the corner and the car starts running up towards the wall. I was getting about 115 - 120 going under the timing lights. Brake to get some weight over the front (but leave it in fourth) and turn into a chicain which you can straight line over the kerbs.
You're now on the exit of the pit lane, so start again....
Don't know if thats any use
jon
A brief run through the circuit, although I'm not sure if this'll be of any use as they've got a half dozen or so configurations they can use - from full oval to go-kart track.
Anyway out the pits and onto the oval, on a flying lap you've been through a chicain but are still doing 100+ when you have to brake for a 3rd gr left 180 hairpin, it falls away from you - bit like goddards at donnington. Go deep, miss the first apex then clip the second, running right out on exit. Short run (getting back over to the left) to a 90 right hander which turns up a short hill - easy to go in too fast here, immediatly followed by blind turn in to a 90 right.
Run out only to half way on exit coz you want to get hard over right for a left followed by a right - i can take that section pretty much flat in 3rd if i get the first blind right hander correct. Out of the last right, let the car settle, then hard brake and into another left 180 turn, this one quite flat and wide, although again I miss the first apex going deep and run over the second on exit. Short run up to 4th gr, slight brake, down to 3rd a fast left hander that you can power from just after entry holding the apex for a while then flat out to the other side.
Short run and then a very slow 180 right hairpin, down to second. The track is very wide on exit so I could never work out whether to hold the apex for a while or just boot it and head out to the far side of the track early. Reminded me of the Melbourne loop at donnington - whatever you did felt crap. Anyway, up through 3rd and 4th along a straight. Slight brake into 3rd and power through a flat 90 right which runs very wide on exit.
Flat in fourth through a kink up to a left 180 2nd gear hairpin. This one takes you out onto the oval. On the Oval, up wide to start with then as it begins to turn you come right down to the bottom. As your speed increases you come out the corner and the car starts running up towards the wall. I was getting about 115 - 120 going under the timing lights. Brake to get some weight over the front (but leave it in fourth) and turn into a chicain which you can straight line over the kerbs.
You're now on the exit of the pit lane, so start again....
Don't know if thats any use
jon
16 July 2001, 04:11 PM
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I was there too in my Type RA and thats pretty accurate to how I found it.
There was no cones as the circuit is so new and nobody felt confident enough to tell anybody what line to take, so we all had to make it up a bit as we went along.
The Downhill hairpin after the banking/chicane is a barsteward on the brakes - this circuit ate mine alive and I put new pads and discs on sunday - the corner after is great although some Skylines were having problems. As Jon says, the next corner is too easy to carry too much speed into - I lost it 2 or 3 times.
The hairpin Jon relates as being similar to the Melbourne loop at Donington is very hard to feel quick at, although my gearing in 2nd was perfect and I managed to overtake alot of people coming out of there.
The only other thing was the confidence to put yr foot down on the banking - I was doing 120/125 mph by the afternoon sessions but was very unsure.
I found it great fun but just take spare pads with you !!
There was no cones as the circuit is so new and nobody felt confident enough to tell anybody what line to take, so we all had to make it up a bit as we went along.
The Downhill hairpin after the banking/chicane is a barsteward on the brakes - this circuit ate mine alive and I put new pads and discs on sunday - the corner after is great although some Skylines were having problems. As Jon says, the next corner is too easy to carry too much speed into - I lost it 2 or 3 times.
The hairpin Jon relates as being similar to the Melbourne loop at Donington is very hard to feel quick at, although my gearing in 2nd was perfect and I managed to overtake alot of people coming out of there.
The only other thing was the confidence to put yr foot down on the banking - I was doing 120/125 mph by the afternoon sessions but was very unsure.
I found it great fun but just take spare pads with you !!
16 July 2001, 05:20 PM
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itr - no, not slicks I was on yoko A539's with about 0.5mm tread left. I used slicks a couple of times, but took them off coz I was concerned about wear on the car. However, I could only manage 3 or so laps on the yoko's before I was sliding all over the place. So i'm thinking about going back to slicks again unless anyones knows how you can make your road tyres last (i'm upping pressure by 10% too)
Trigger - banking, yep v. frightening. I went out with an instructor (who had some very strange ideas...); he was telling me to plant it from the hairpin to the timing lights, which i did. Once i'd done it a couple of times it was ok, but first time wasnt fun.
The same guy said "its ok if you loose it, you'll just bounce off the wall and slide down the track". er... right, thanks mate...
And...
when I was getting understeer on the way into a corner he was telling me to put more lock on and nail it, cause that would pull the nose round. mmm.... i'm no SDB, but thats not how I understand it...
jon
Trigger - banking, yep v. frightening. I went out with an instructor (who had some very strange ideas...); he was telling me to plant it from the hairpin to the timing lights, which i did. Once i'd done it a couple of times it was ok, but first time wasnt fun.
The same guy said "its ok if you loose it, you'll just bounce off the wall and slide down the track". er... right, thanks mate...
And...
when I was getting understeer on the way into a corner he was telling me to put more lock on and nail it, cause that would pull the nose round. mmm.... i'm no SDB, but thats not how I understand it...jon
16 July 2001, 08:10 PM
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Let me know what the 1177 pads are like, eat those disks !!! If they are good i think i will fit them at my next Trackday. I take it they are stricktly track use only. I use the 1155 on the road all the time.
Are those Discs Heat Treated Brembos ?
Just an idea which i have done, remove the splash plate behind the discs, it feeds more cold air to the discs, the pads don't seem to go off so quick nowadays or it could just be me driving like a wuss. also on the tegs if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help. Dick at Mardi Gras did it for a friend of mines Teg, but drilled holes in the bumper.
Have you tried Dunlops cut slick, very grippy, but not as hard wearing as full race slicks. Also as a road/track tyre i find the RE010's top for grip and wear.
I have tried Toyo T1's and SO2's great on track for 50 miles then they melt and get very slidey. Im driving round on some very worn SO2's, going around a roundabout has never been so much fun.
Are those Discs Heat Treated Brembos ?
Just an idea which i have done, remove the splash plate behind the discs, it feeds more cold air to the discs, the pads don't seem to go off so quick nowadays or it could just be me driving like a wuss
. also on the tegs if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help. Dick at Mardi Gras did it for a friend of mines Teg, but drilled holes in the bumper. Have you tried Dunlops cut slick, very grippy, but not as hard wearing as full race slicks. Also as a road/track tyre i find the RE010's top for grip and wear.
I have tried Toyo T1's and SO2's great on track for 50 miles then they melt and get very slidey. Im driving round on some very worn SO2's, going around a roundabout has never been so much fun.
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16 July 2001, 10:11 PM
#8
Thanks to the easytrack chaps for a great day on a new circuit, it was a lot of fun.
I didn’t have any problems at all with the traffic thankfully, everyone without exception got out of the way as soon as they realised I was approaching, which was nice
. The only place this didn’t happen easily was on the banked Oval section, but then again there really was only one line through there with all the **** on the track so I didn’t expect anything else really. I did pass a few round the outside there but they made room to allow it, I was very concious of the **** just off line, get in that and your in the wall for sure.
The track is a bit of a jeckyl and hyde affair. Very hard on the brakes compared to most other places.
Basic rundown for me was exit the very tight exit of the infield second then flat in 2nd, 3rd, 4th throughout the banking drifting towards the wall on exit at around 130MPH then 5th hitting 145MPH before braking hard for the chicane at the 150 mtr board. Dropping to 4th then full throttle from about 50 yards before the chicane taking that dead straight using the entire kerb on the right. Keeping it flat right through the left-hand sweeper, avoiding the wet patch on the track transition point that stayed there all day, strange that one?? Let it drift out to the wall keeping it flat in 4th till the limiter (140) which was conveniently also the braking point for the very tight double 90 left to start the infield.
The infield could be driven in 2 styles I found, both equally fast. You could either drive it quickly, neatly and smoothly which was easy on the tyres or you could drive it like a complete head case, keeping the wheels spinning for a huge amount of time through the corners. At first I was doing the former to learn the track properly but after lunch I just went into headcase mode and spent the afternoon melting my tyres and grinning a lot.
I found I could take the 3rd corner in the infield, the uphill 80 blind right, all the way through the left/right fast kink with the rears spinning, brake for the downhill double 90 left then nail it through there completely sideways through both 90’s in one huge power slide then off up the hill. The next corner, a long constant radius lefthander I was taking in 3rd at first but I found it nicer to take in 4th later on. I found this corner was very easy to run wide on the exit of, it had a strange feel from the front through there, the grip levels dropped off late in the exit. It was then a case of heavy braking from around 120 for the tight righthander.This was a right pain to get correct, I eventually found it was quicker to make this very late turn in and straigtline the exit heading for the outer barrier then turn late away from the barrier, if I didn’t do that it was just a case of very low traction as the car tried to roll on the rear and slide wide. The next right hander was fairly hard braking but you could let the car run very wide on exit and make the exit plus right kink that followed one very long full throttle ark, nice corner that one when you got it right. Then it was hard braking and down to 2nd for the left hander back onto the oval. That corner was the pits, I never got it right all day, or at least it felt crap with the off camber exit.
As to when it was wet. I normally love driving in the wet but that was just atrocious. It was like driving on diesel, no fun at all. Thank god it dried out is all I can say.
as to driving a scoob round there, a standard one brake wise is in BIG trouble. This has to be the hardest track on brakes in the UK, even harder than donington GP circuit.
The infield is a bit mickey mouse, especialy for a bigger car like a scoob i would think. It is a lot of fun, i prefer faster flowing corners though. The tight stuff is OK for a while but there is only so much rubber on my rear tyres and they took a hell of a pounding, the are now slicks.
I didn’t have any problems at all with the traffic thankfully, everyone without exception got out of the way as soon as they realised I was approaching, which was nice
. The only place this didn’t happen easily was on the banked Oval section, but then again there really was only one line through there with all the **** on the track so I didn’t expect anything else really. I did pass a few round the outside there but they made room to allow it, I was very concious of the **** just off line, get in that and your in the wall for sure.The track is a bit of a jeckyl and hyde affair. Very hard on the brakes compared to most other places.
Basic rundown for me was exit the very tight exit of the infield second then flat in 2nd, 3rd, 4th throughout the banking drifting towards the wall on exit at around 130MPH then 5th hitting 145MPH before braking hard for the chicane at the 150 mtr board. Dropping to 4th then full throttle from about 50 yards before the chicane taking that dead straight using the entire kerb on the right. Keeping it flat right through the left-hand sweeper, avoiding the wet patch on the track transition point that stayed there all day, strange that one?? Let it drift out to the wall keeping it flat in 4th till the limiter (140) which was conveniently also the braking point for the very tight double 90 left to start the infield.
The infield could be driven in 2 styles I found, both equally fast. You could either drive it quickly, neatly and smoothly which was easy on the tyres or you could drive it like a complete head case, keeping the wheels spinning for a huge amount of time through the corners. At first I was doing the former to learn the track properly but after lunch I just went into headcase mode and spent the afternoon melting my tyres and grinning a lot.
I found I could take the 3rd corner in the infield, the uphill 80 blind right, all the way through the left/right fast kink with the rears spinning, brake for the downhill double 90 left then nail it through there completely sideways through both 90’s in one huge power slide then off up the hill. The next corner, a long constant radius lefthander I was taking in 3rd at first but I found it nicer to take in 4th later on. I found this corner was very easy to run wide on the exit of, it had a strange feel from the front through there, the grip levels dropped off late in the exit. It was then a case of heavy braking from around 120 for the tight righthander.This was a right pain to get correct, I eventually found it was quicker to make this very late turn in and straigtline the exit heading for the outer barrier then turn late away from the barrier, if I didn’t do that it was just a case of very low traction as the car tried to roll on the rear and slide wide. The next right hander was fairly hard braking but you could let the car run very wide on exit and make the exit plus right kink that followed one very long full throttle ark, nice corner that one when you got it right. Then it was hard braking and down to 2nd for the left hander back onto the oval. That corner was the pits, I never got it right all day, or at least it felt crap with the off camber exit.
As to when it was wet. I normally love driving in the wet but that was just atrocious. It was like driving on diesel, no fun at all. Thank god it dried out is all I can say.
as to driving a scoob round there, a standard one brake wise is in BIG trouble. This has to be the hardest track on brakes in the UK, even harder than donington GP circuit.
The infield is a bit mickey mouse, especialy for a bigger car like a scoob i would think. It is a lot of fun, i prefer faster flowing corners though. The tight stuff is OK for a while but there is only so much rubber on my rear tyres and they took a hell of a pounding, the are now slicks.
17 July 2001, 12:16 AM
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I get my RE010's from Tyres Northampton, i have just ordered 8, if you want some it might reduce the cost down a little more. Im just awaiting the price.
Option Motorsport in Silverstone, £110 +VAT each. I guess at that price slicks are not that much more expensive. Best thing is no wheel changing. I managed to get a cracking deal for my slicks £30 each and they were hardly used. Thanks again Mr Felstead.
Good luck with the ducting.
Let me know next time you go to Donnington, i am well overdue a visit.
Matt
Option Motorsport in Silverstone, £110 +VAT each. I guess at that price slicks are not that much more expensive. Best thing is no wheel changing. I managed to get a cracking deal for my slicks £30 each and they were hardly used. Thanks again Mr Felstead.
Good luck with the ducting.
Let me know next time you go to Donnington, i am well overdue a visit.
Matt
17 July 2001, 12:54 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Type R:
<B>
...
if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help.
[/quote]
This is a novel idea - REMOVING fogs to go faster...
<B>
...
if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help.
[/quote]
This is a novel idea - REMOVING fogs to go faster...
17 July 2001, 08:43 AM
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John F - Your powersliding was excellent to witness - glad I wasnt in the car when you went into mad nutter mode.....
Jon H - I am sure that kind of technique for the banking is right in a Nascar but in a road car that you hope to drive home ? I dont think so !
As I said before you have to take spare pads as whatever you have on they will be gone by the end of the day - and I usually do atleast 2 trackdays on my pads. I didnt find the infield too tight for the scooby, but I suppose if I had a Westie or similar it would make most cars feel huge and overweight !!
Thanks you guys for making it a good day - see you soon
Jon H - I am sure that kind of technique for the banking is right in a Nascar but in a road car that you hope to drive home ? I dont think so !
As I said before you have to take spare pads as whatever you have on they will be gone by the end of the day - and I usually do atleast 2 trackdays on my pads. I didnt find the infield too tight for the scooby, but I suppose if I had a Westie or similar it would make most cars feel huge and overweight !!
Thanks you guys for making it a good day - see you soon
17 July 2001, 09:53 AM
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thanks for the corner by corner track guide guys, looking at the curcuit map we are racing on this weekend, it is the same one.
Pretty glad the racecar has a beefy vented AP brake setup and a wimpy top speed of 110mph - and outbraking people into corners is one of my favourite bits of racing, sounds like Rockingham will be a blast!
dela
Pretty glad the racecar has a beefy vented AP brake setup and a wimpy top speed of 110mph
- and outbraking people into corners is one of my favourite bits of racing, sounds like Rockingham will be a blast!dela
17 July 2001, 10:45 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Type R:
<B>Let me know what the 1177 pads are like, eat those disks !!! If they are good i think i will fit them at my next Trackday. I take it they are stricktly track use only. I use the 1155 on the road all the time. </B>
i only use the car for trackdays, w/e blasts and trips to scotland, so they'll stay on all the time. If they really are a problem on the road then i'll change them back
<B> Are those Discs Heat Treated Brembos ? </B>
no idea - i think they're heat treated honda disks, but i've got faith in dick richards to get it right...
<B> also on the tegs if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help. Dick at Mardi Gras did it for a friend of mines Teg, but drilled holes in the bumper. </B>
Nice one - guess what i'll be up to this weekend ?
<B> Have you tried Dunlops cut slick, very grippy, but not as hard wearing as full race slicks. Also as a road/track tyre i find the RE010's top for grip and wear. [/quote]
i couldnt get hold of 010's, so i tried RE94s (which are pants) and then went for the yoko a539. Where can you get the cut slicks ? I got my last part worn full slicks again from Mardi Gra, but as they're in silverstone and not open at the weekend its a bit of a pain in the butt going up during the week.
jon
[This message has been edited by jon hill (edited 17 July 2001).]
<B>Let me know what the 1177 pads are like, eat those disks !!! If they are good i think i will fit them at my next Trackday. I take it they are stricktly track use only. I use the 1155 on the road all the time. </B>
i only use the car for trackdays, w/e blasts and trips to scotland, so they'll stay on all the time. If they really are a problem on the road then i'll change them back
<B> Are those Discs Heat Treated Brembos ? </B>
no idea - i think they're heat treated honda disks, but i've got faith in dick richards to get it right...
<B> also on the tegs if you have the fog lights, remove them and use the space for pipes for cold air ducting. I would guess the pads are over heating and that may help. Dick at Mardi Gras did it for a friend of mines Teg, but drilled holes in the bumper. </B>
Nice one - guess what i'll be up to this weekend ?
<B> Have you tried Dunlops cut slick, very grippy, but not as hard wearing as full race slicks. Also as a road/track tyre i find the RE010's top for grip and wear. [/quote]
i couldnt get hold of 010's, so i tried RE94s (which are pants) and then went for the yoko a539. Where can you get the cut slicks ? I got my last part worn full slicks again from Mardi Gra, but as they're in silverstone and not open at the weekend its a bit of a pain in the butt going up during the week.
jon
[This message has been edited by jon hill (edited 17 July 2001).]
19 July 2001, 09:42 AM
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nope - standard "sports" road tyres, not that great either.
I'm thinking of going back to slicks for the track - i used then for a while, but became concerned about the additional stresses on the car. However the road tyres i've tried seem to fall apart too easily. The 539's are reasonably hard, have about 1mm tread and i've got them up 10% pressure over standard, yet at rockingham 2 or 3 laps in and i'd be sliding around....
jon
I'm thinking of going back to slicks for the track - i used then for a while, but became concerned about the additional stresses on the car. However the road tyres i've tried seem to fall apart too easily. The 539's are reasonably hard, have about 1mm tread and i've got them up 10% pressure over standard, yet at rockingham 2 or 3 laps in and i'd be sliding around....
jon
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