ca

Folks,

Today there has been a Safety Camera Rollout Conference in Northamptonshire. Basically a concerted attempt to get the ball rolling to blitzing the whole country with speed cameras.

The ABD were there!

From our reporter on the ground comes this ABD Special Report.

(Names have been changed to protect the guilty!)


What fun! I was 'thrown off' the premises by Chief Supt Feavyour himself, while David is still in there.

David and I stayed in Northamptonshire last night making up ABD info packs in ABD carrier bags. This morning I arrived at the venue at 08:30. Wearing suit trousers, business shirt and tie, I stood on the
road between the carpark and the reception. Anyone who walked by was challenged - "Good morning. Are you here for the safety camera
conference?" Most were. "Oh, good. Here is an information pack.

Please follow this road and the reception is on the right." I gave out around 30 packs with no refusals. Delegates were walking into the conference with ABD carrier bags - yesssssssssss!!!!!

I was passed by Gifford in a taxi, David (so as not to arouse attention
that we were together) and a senior officer in a chauferred Volvo.

Some ten minutes, and another 10 packs later, I was confronted by a senior officer aided by a civilian lady. Some paraphrasing follows:-

CS"Are you **** **** ?"
ME"No - should I be?"
CS"Oh - who are you then?
ME"***** **** - who are you?"
CS"I'm Chief Supt Feavyour of Northampton Police"
ME"And what seems to be the problem officer?"
CS"I'm afraid you'll have to stop giving out your bags and you must leave the premises."
ME"Why?"
CS"Because some companies have paid a lot of money to exhibit here and they are upset that you are giving out your information without paying."
ME"Are you sure it's not you who is upset? How much do I need to pay to carry on?"
CS"That's not the issue, you must leave."
ME"And what if I refuse? I understand that I'm allowed to make a peaceful protest. What if I refuse to leave?"
CS"Then I will wait for a complaint from the Hall and you will be evicted."
ME"Oh. so where can I stand? On the road?"
CS"If you make a nuisance of yourself you will be moved on from there too. Why don't you give me a call in the morning and we can discuss things?"
ME"Oh, so we can talk to you? I didn't realise that you wanted to talk to us."
CS"Yes, we can talk about this - give me a call, or I'll call you. Do you have a card?"
RE"No, I don't. Come over to my car and I'll get your details."

We walked over to my car and I put the packs in the boot. I produced my diary and he wrote his detials on the back page.

ME"We would be very interested to talk to you. We would like to know why you are misleading the public with your statistics - claiming to have reduced fatalities by 28% when all that happened is that they
fell to the average for the five years prior to the 1999 peak. Would you come to an ABD conference and talk to our members?"
CS"Do you have a conference arranged?"
ME"No, but we could. You never know - we might have some common ground, and if you can convince us that you are right we could call off the planned national day of protest in September!"

We exchanged pleasantries and we parted - they to the hall and me to the pub 100m down the hill, from where I walked to the main gate and carried on as before.

At this point I was joined by Nigel. We had a delightful 30 mins stopping cars and asking if they were for the conference. We handed them packs and added, "Now, as you can see there is a 5mph limit in
operation on the grounds. Please try and stick to it as there are safety camera vehicles in there."

We laughed out loud as they tried to drive within the limit. What a hoot!!

It was stated in the conference that Northans police are generating a 900% return on their camera investments!

Neil Smalley

Well done and congrats, did you get any feedback from the meeting? Anyone stop and ask you questions, or disagree with the aims of the conference.

ca

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Neil Smalley:
<B>

Well done and congrats, did you get any feedback from the meeting? Anyone stop and ask you questions, or disagree with the aims of the conference.[/quote]


I'll post more when the other ABD committee members report in. Interestingly, the Officer was disappointed to learn that the person he approached wasn't the ABD Chairman. What he didn't know whas that the ABD Chairman was sat inside, gleaning the insider information!

C

SDB

hmmmm...

I'm not totally keen on this.

I HATE the camera vans and the greed they are being positioned to suppliment, but I don't see this type of approach as giving off the professional image required for us to stand a chance of getting them to change their plans.

I CERTAINLY do not want scoobynet associated with anything which makes us look like boy racers who hate the police.

I would estimate that 99% of everyone on this board has a healthy respect, admiration and gratitude for the police (i know this is not just about the police)...

and most of us are angry at ourselves when we're done for speeding, not the officer who "did" us.

We will all lose COMPLETE credibility if we go on a "What Fun!!" crusade to cause havok and make statements without trying to go through the correct channels.

Chief Supt Feavyour (from the dialogue you posted) seems like a decent bloke doing his job, and from that same dialogue, you seemed a little agressive towards him.

Don't get me wrong.. we are all grateful for any efforts you guys put in on our behalf, but I do think that this kind of post would do more harm than good.

Just my thoughts

Simon

Neil Smalley

I think Ca was on a high from handing out the leaflets and the encounter, which maybe made it seem a little triumphalist.

I did'nt get any sense of disrepect for the police, as the chief supt was invited to a meeting.

What I did get was the outrage that the media and pressure groups were being banned from a conference where misleading information was being given as fact. Also as specified in the Canada post Northants police removed any chance of any one refuting their claims, as if alternative view points did'nt count.

Maybe my dancing smilies was a little off the mark, but i'm glad that somebody is making the voice of the law abiding, law respecting motorist heard.

Where do you draw the line from being professional and being a wimp and doing nothing?(not aimed at anyone, just a comment)?

IMHO Handing out flyers and carrier bags in a polite good humoured way is a professional way of getting a point across when you are not allowed to by any other means.

What is acceptable?(again not to anyone or to scoobynet)

Parking directly behind of camera vans? so they can't get anyone?

Flashing your headlines to warn other drivers of a speed trap?

Buying detectors/Geodesy's etc etc to avoid speed traps?

etc etc.

Believe me, i've seen more extreme suggestions to combat the war being raged against the motorist by certain councils/police forces and government members.

I would run a mile if the ABD suggested destruction of Gatso's, camera vans or non co-operation with the police. They did'nt they handed out leaflets at a conference that they were welcome to, but refused entry at the last minute.

I did'nt attend and I must confess i'm giving CA the benefit of the doubt that it was good natured, and the above is my interpretation.

Simon, I fully understand and support the Scoobynet position, but I believe the ABD need our support in their campaign, the moment they advocate an anti police stance is the moment they lose my support. Until then, let's get behind it 100%

[This message has been edited by Neil Smalley (edited 04 July 2001).]

ca

Simon,

The purpose of ABD's involvement in this conference was to highlight the fact that these cameras are being used for pure revenue purposes only.

I'm not sure where you get this 'boy racer' and 'hating the police' stuff from?

I don't agree that the tone that the ABD person took (it wasn't me by the way) was aggressive.

I think your being a little niave, Simon, if you think that these people will listen to reasoned arguement. We've been there, done that. The ABD are now stepping up a gear to highlight the true hypocrisy of the anti-car lobby.

You've suggested that you don't think this will work. In that case, what do *you* propose we do?

Today, this officer has finally agreed to talk to the ABD. Not because he wants to because he has to. Why? Because he knows we have the information (and the moral high ground) to destroy the credibility of the whole speed camera mugging system.

C

SDB

OK

All valid points, but I was only making a statement based on the tone of this thread being one of finding it all "fun" and funny... not something we take seriously..

surely if we were so upset by it all, there would be no pleasure to derive from this? It is ONLY this "fun" side of the activities which I felt obliged to distance scoobynet from.

There is nothing wrong with standing up for what you believe in, as long as the result is what you are after, not the actual protesting. From statements like "what fun", "I didn't realise that you wanted to talk to us" and "We laughed out loud as they tried to drive within the limit. What a hoot!!" could in many peoples eyes show you to be enjoying the protesting as much as trying to get a result..

that just makes you sound like rebels without a cause.

I will state again..

<B>I am ALL FOR putting efforts towards making this happen. I was ONLY making a statement based on the nature of this post</B>

I hope that's clear.. again, I thank you for your efforts and also hope you are succesful for the benefit of all of us.

Best regards

Simon

ca

Simon,

You have to put this into context.

Do you not see the irony of delegates (some senior police officers) walking into a conference arranged by the speed camera manufacturers, with a carrier bag emlazoned with the ABD logo?

Or what about an ABD person reminding drivers (some who will no doubt be very experienced civilian and perhaps police drivers) to watch the 5mph speed limit as there might be cameras about?

This officer has consistently refused to listen or enagge the ABD in serious debate. He simply sits in his office and fiddles the road accident statistics.

Remember the press were banned from this event at very short notice. Why? You tell me. I'm hoping there are going to be some interesting news items over the next few days.

You have absolutely no need to worry about the conduct of the ABD!

C

ca

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Puff The Magic Wagon!:
<B>About time the ABD arranged for a banner ad with all the advertising they've been doing on scoobynet recently

Also could be said not so winkily...[/quote]

As the ABD is not a commerical organisation, I'm afraid our resources do not stretch to such things as banner ads.

No other organisation (this includes the AA, RAC, Motoring Mags, etc..) is on the side of the motorist, like the ABD.

C

ca

This is the ABD summary/followup to this conference.


If you drive on the UK's roads then this affects YOU!!

The use of speed cameras around the country is being seriously abused and you need to know about it. Initially installed at known accident blackspots where speed was a problem, the money earning potential of these devices has lead to cash strapped councils and police forces installing them wherever they can. Even on brand new roads with no accident history.

In their armoury they have:

Gatso cameras - measure your speed by radar and take a photograph;
Truevelo cameras - measure your speed using pressure pads in the road and take a photograph
SPECCS - digital device that reads your number plate at point 'A' and again at point B further up the road then calculates your
average speed. They also have numerous hand held devices such as lasers etc.

The Association of British Drivers recently attended the Nottinghamshire
"Safety Camera Rollout - Principles and Practice" Seminar, Northants, 04/07/200.

This conference was arranged by Northamptonshire Constabulary to allow those who believe that Speed Cameras are of benefit to road safety to argue for more of these types of devices to be installed on our roads.

The audience consisted of invited Council Officers from around the country as well as key Police personnel and 'specialists'.

Interestingly the Press, whose presence was initially authorised, were suddenly excluded from the event at the last minute.

The event was sponsored by the speed camera manufacturers, Truvelo.

What follows is essentially a summary:

Roads in each county will be colour coded (red, amber or green) according to the number of accidents that occur on them. This will be based on the number of people killed or seriously injured (KSI) per 3 years and will take no account of traffic volume whatsoever. This allows very safe (and fast) roads like the A14 and M1 to be targeted whilst, for example, a minor road with a dangerous junction will be ignored.

Northamptonshire have issued 45,000 speeding tickets from fixed location Gatsos and 39,000 from mobile ones. That equates to £5,040,000 in revenue.

No information was presented on accident reduction as a result of mobile enforcement; Fixed sites claimed a 67% reduction but no figures were given.

In Northamptonshire, the "Marketing Team" for the speed camera project are trumpeting a 28% reduction in fatalities between 1999 and 2000. In reality, it was the 76 fatalities in 1999 (when the cameras were installed) that was the unusual figure. The "result" in 2000, 55 fatalities, simply reflects the average annual fatality rate in Northamptonshire over the last five years -
56 fatalities.

Civilian personnel are carrying out the speed checking activities, not police officers. They receive a piece-rate performance bonus. They are overseen by the police but an officer only needs "reasonable belief" that they are following ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers)guidelines to sign off their work.

Cameras cost £25-35k per annum each to operate.

Another clandestine national speed limit review is underway with wholesale
reductions of rural speed limits to 30mph likely.

The Northamptonshire Speed Camera Project has been very lucrative. Estimated
and actual project 1st year financial returns were respectively 526% and
"over 900%". When all expenses were considered it was still 185% net return.
The Police receive this money as Northamptonshire are one of the first
regions to trial hypothecation.

"Safety" (i.e. Speed) camera money has to be ploughed back into more "safety" cameras, not spent initially on any useful road safety measures. As one speaker pointed out: "I don't know of a scheme - apart from the Nottinghamshire SPECS example - that won't justify the [fiscal] requirements
of the County Council and the police force". (The SPECCS system on Nottingham's ring road may be removed as it is not making enough money).

Journalists were totally excluded (surprise, surprise!)

The Northamptonshire hypothecation trial is shortly to be rolled out to ALL other Counties.


Make up your own mind about how this will affect you. If you believe safe driving involves being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear and setting a speed appropriate to the road and conditions (as taught by the Institute of Advanced Motorists and Roadcraft, the Police Drivers Handbook) WHATEVER the speed limit then your days are numbered. If you see speed
limits as a guide to the type of road ahead then you've had it. The message is clear - Drive up the M1 at 85mph on a clear sunny Sunday morning and you are dangerous and you will be photographed and fined. Do so at 70mph in thick fog and heavy traffic and you are 'safe' and will not be fined.

If you wish to do something about this madness join the ABD NOW! Look up

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

About time the ABD arranged for a banner ad with all the advertising they've been doing on scoobynet recently

Also could be said not so winkily...