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14 August 2002, 06:10 PM
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You could get a very recent 'old shape' Scoob for that money - or possibly even a new shape car.
New shape is slightly heavier and therefore slower - but has a better chassis and is probably faster point to point.
Within each model year they are all much the same performance - except for the imported Japanese versions that are significanty quicker - mmmmmmmm - quicker!
Trout
New shape is slightly heavier and therefore slower - but has a better chassis and is probably faster point to point.
Within each model year they are all much the same performance - except for the imported Japanese versions that are significanty quicker - mmmmmmmm - quicker!
Trout
14 August 2002, 06:26 PM
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RB5 WR Version - fantastic buy - if you can find a good one - buy it!
Imports are cheaper than UK models of similar age - they suffered from depreciation when the bubble burst a couple of years ago. There are a few Sti Vs knocking about - excellent condition - pay between 13,000 and 18,000 for a decent one.
Trout
Imports are cheaper than UK models of similar age - they suffered from depreciation when the bubble burst a couple of years ago. There are a few Sti Vs knocking about - excellent condition - pay between 13,000 and 18,000 for a decent one.
Trout
14 August 2002, 07:49 PM
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Could you knock the caps off please
then we get to business
Right,
Owning a scoob just isnt about buying it, it is an expensive car to run, 2 services per year and a large fuel bill to boot (along with somewhat inflated insurance premiums
) are a few of the down sides (servicing can sometimes cost upto 500 quid, they are 6 month or 7.5k miles, which ever comes first).
Fuel....
If your running a UK car then they can run either 95ron (normal unleaded) or 97+ ron (super unleaded or optimax which is 98.6 ron) these give better performance and better economy so are worth the extra quid or two that actually evens out over the cost of a tank of unleaded
Jap imports can only be run on Super unleaded or Optimax, preferably with octane booster as the ecu is mapped to run 100 ron fuel, something that isnt available to us in the UK, if you run unleaded in these cars your engine will eventually give up the ghost and go bang.....
Pro's and cons...
Pro's
Uk cars have a dealer network
parts for uk cars are more freely available than that of its japanese grey import counterpart.
Insurance is cheaper on uk cars
UK cars hold their value better than the jap counterparts.
Jap imports have lots more goodies on them, ie climate control etc
Jap imports are more powerful thus giving better performance
Cons.
Uk cars are not of the best spec.
Jap imports wont be touched by the UK network
Parts are harder to source for jap imports but there are speciallists who can do this for you
Jap import insurance is on average upto 50% higher than a uk car.
There are alot of smashed/crashed scoobs out there
There are lots of stolen scoobs out there
Scoobs have a following, unfortunately of the wrong type [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img] They are called car thieves [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
Scoobs car expensive to run.....
There that covers most things
Tony
PS, CAPS button is on the left hand side of your keyboard
then we get to business
Right,
Owning a scoob just isnt about buying it, it is an expensive car to run, 2 services per year and a large fuel bill to boot (along with somewhat inflated insurance premiums
) are a few of the down sides (servicing can sometimes cost upto 500 quid, they are 6 month or 7.5k miles, which ever comes first).Fuel....
If your running a UK car then they can run either 95ron (normal unleaded) or 97+ ron (super unleaded or optimax which is 98.6 ron) these give better performance and better economy so are worth the extra quid or two that actually evens out over the cost of a tank of unleaded
Jap imports can only be run on Super unleaded or Optimax, preferably with octane booster as the ecu is mapped to run 100 ron fuel, something that isnt available to us in the UK, if you run unleaded in these cars your engine will eventually give up the ghost and go bang.....
Pro's and cons...
Pro's
Uk cars have a dealer network
parts for uk cars are more freely available than that of its japanese grey import counterpart.
Insurance is cheaper on uk cars
UK cars hold their value better than the jap counterparts.
Jap imports have lots more goodies on them, ie climate control etc
Jap imports are more powerful thus giving better performance
Cons.
Uk cars are not of the best spec.
Jap imports wont be touched by the UK network
Parts are harder to source for jap imports but there are speciallists who can do this for you
Jap import insurance is on average upto 50% higher than a uk car.
There are alot of smashed/crashed scoobs out there
There are lots of stolen scoobs out there
Scoobs have a following, unfortunately of the wrong type [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]
They are called car thieves [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]Scoobs car expensive to run.....
There that covers most things
Tony
PS, CAPS button is on the left hand side of your keyboard
14 August 2002, 09:28 PM
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If u gave me 15K, there isn't much doubt in my mind that I would buy a mint STi V5 1999/2000 model (with 17 inch wheel and retuned suspension).
Apart from high insurance I see no other drawbacks. Forget what magazines like EVO say, they are great mags but easily influenced by manufacturers who obviously don't want us to import cars and undercut them.
Trust me, you will not be disappointed. Magnificant car which makes an average driver feel gifted.
Apart from high insurance I see no other drawbacks. Forget what magazines like EVO say, they are great mags but easily influenced by manufacturers who obviously don't want us to import cars and undercut them.
Trust me, you will not be disappointed. Magnificant car which makes an average driver feel gifted.
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15 August 2002, 09:43 PM
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first sorry about the caps& thanks for the replys. just checked out some import prices which makes it very tempting there seem to be alot of these cars around so is the fuel & parts such a big problem ? or should i just keep my m3. my head hurts
15 August 2002, 09:55 PM
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I've only earned an import impreza and found the servicing much cheaper than UK dealer servicing would be... Nothing went wrong with my car that would have been covered by a warranty anyway. Would I have another, yes if I wanted a fairly fast point to point car civilised enough to use daily I'd look for a midly modified STI5 for around £13k (seen a couple of good ones at this price!).
There are other cars I enjoy more... There are few other cars as well rounded, but I prefer my GTR
As for UK cars, they are about 10-20% cheaper to insure, UK dealers charge a small fortune to service, other costs are comparable though (similar MPG, depreciation etc), the only difference is 208-218bhp standard vs 276bhp standard and some all important extra revs to play with
Jon
There are other cars I enjoy more... There are few other cars as well rounded, but I prefer my GTR
As for UK cars, they are about 10-20% cheaper to insure, UK dealers charge a small fortune to service, other costs are comparable though (similar MPG, depreciation etc), the only difference is 208-218bhp standard vs 276bhp standard and some all important extra revs to play with
Jon
15 August 2002, 11:12 PM
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serena: My STI 4 (which I've had since new, since May 98) has covered 62K miles now. It's going better than ever.
So far I've only had to replace:-
Clutch - at 34K miles when I had a load of tuning done and it took the power to >300BHP which seems to be max for standard STI clutch (348actually)
Battery - packed in about 2 weeks ago
Cylinder Head Gasket packed in at 55K miles (I had the same problem on my Escort Cosworth before the Imprezza, with funnily enough the same miles on it)
Lambda sensor packed in at 57K miles.
Other than that for a car that puts out 348BHP I think that it's been remarkably reliable.
It's always been serviced on or ahead of schedule and I always use SuperPlus or Optimax. I've never used octane booster though, as the car has been setup for 97+ Octane fuel.
They are heavy on juice though, even on a good run I am lucky to get 25mpg, but I've been as low as 8mpg on a 'spirited run'.
Edited to say that Lambda sensor had packed in, but I forgot about that.
[Edited by Sheepsplitter - 8/16/2002 9:29:36 AM]
[Edited by Sheepsplitter - 8/16/2002 9:30:23 AM]
So far I've only had to replace:-
Clutch - at 34K miles when I had a load of tuning done and it took the power to >300BHP which seems to be max for standard STI clutch (348actually)
Battery - packed in about 2 weeks ago
Cylinder Head Gasket packed in at 55K miles (I had the same problem on my Escort Cosworth before the Imprezza, with funnily enough the same miles on it)
Lambda sensor packed in at 57K miles.
Other than that for a car that puts out 348BHP I think that it's been remarkably reliable.
It's always been serviced on or ahead of schedule and I always use SuperPlus or Optimax. I've never used octane booster though, as the car has been setup for 97+ Octane fuel.
They are heavy on juice though, even on a good run I am lucky to get 25mpg, but I've been as low as 8mpg on a 'spirited run'.
Edited to say that Lambda sensor had packed in, but I forgot about that.
[Edited by Sheepsplitter - 8/16/2002 9:29:36 AM]
[Edited by Sheepsplitter - 8/16/2002 9:30:23 AM]
16 August 2002, 12:24 AM
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Ok, some points to take note of
UK cars are not the slowest of vehicles in the world, look even slightly modified they will keep up with the jap imports (i know ive done it )
Yes jap imports are quicker in standard form, you may also find that you buy one thats been run on unleaded fuel with a 3 month warranty and 4 months later your buying a new engine.... hi say bye to 5k....
I'll say this and keep on saying this.... A uk car is a safer option, they are tunable to around 280bhp and for not alot of money either yes they can also take that sort of power but if you want a jap import just make sure the owner knows the history, ie if it was a jap import you wont, if its a first registered in the uk then you will (hopefully) but its a tricky world out there, it will cost you dear if you get it wrong
Tony
UK cars are not the slowest of vehicles in the world, look even slightly modified they will keep up with the jap imports
(i know ive done it )Yes jap imports are quicker in standard form, you may also find that you buy one thats been run on unleaded fuel with a 3 month warranty and 4 months later your buying a new engine.... hi say bye to 5k....
I'll say this and keep on saying this.... A uk car is a safer option, they are tunable to around 280bhp and for not alot of money either
yes they can also take that sort of power but if you want a jap import just make sure the owner knows the history, ie if it was a jap import you wont, if its a first registered in the uk then you will (hopefully) but its a tricky world out there, it will cost you dear if you get it wrong Tony
16 August 2002, 08:18 AM
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Serena,
my import is currently at 80K miles and still going strong, only thing I have had to have done is change the coils. She still runs like the first day I got in her...still smiling..Alot!
my import is currently at 80K miles and still going strong, only thing I have had to have done is change the coils. She still runs like the first day I got in her...still smiling..Alot!
16 August 2002, 08:59 AM
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Well, Grabber, there is some interesting prejudice in this thread that does not make a lot of sense.
I have an Sti - it is a shade more to insure - but all Scoobies are expensive to insure.
I presume that Tony is Richards brother as he can keep up with STis in his 'normal' Scoob....
In reality - what do you want.
If you want a standard car that is fairly rapid - comfortable - reliable - then buy a UK car - for your budget you could get a very recent used Euro Import - or a late classic car.
If you want performance and a are prepared to mod - then either a UK car or an Sti will ultimately give you around the same power. Both have been modded externally to 340+ bhp.
In terms of the cost of doing this - it is nowhere near the £10,000 Mr Burns is talking about - it can be done much more cheaply and safely. Although people have been known to spend more and get less - others spend a lot less and get a lot more - as they know what they are doing.
However - if you go this route with a UK car - you will lack the uprated suspension of the Sti - and not get aircon. Oh and remember 4-door STi has ABS - 2-door Sti does not.
Finally in terms of reliability - my car has been heavily modified for 40,000 of its nearly 50,000 miles - it is an import.
One thing has gone wrong - the rear wiper is squeaky.
Two other things have gone wrong due to my tuning/driving - I needed to replace the third gear sprocket - due to bad track driving - and a sensor (MAF) has died due to the use of an induction kit.
In terms of getting parts - there is no difference to getting UK parts and many Scooby dealers are now much happier to help than in the past.
In the end it is up to you - all Scoobies are good - UK cars are good - imports are good - they are different....what is it you want and what do you need?
Trout
I have an Sti - it is a shade more to insure - but all Scoobies are expensive to insure.
I presume that Tony is Richards brother as he can keep up with STis in his 'normal' Scoob....
In reality - what do you want.
If you want a standard car that is fairly rapid - comfortable - reliable - then buy a UK car - for your budget you could get a very recent used Euro Import - or a late classic car.
If you want performance and a are prepared to mod - then either a UK car or an Sti will ultimately give you around the same power. Both have been modded externally to 340+ bhp.
In terms of the cost of doing this - it is nowhere near the £10,000 Mr Burns is talking about - it can be done much more cheaply and safely. Although people have been known to spend more and get less - others spend a lot less and get a lot more - as they know what they are doing.
However - if you go this route with a UK car - you will lack the uprated suspension of the Sti - and not get aircon. Oh and remember 4-door STi has ABS - 2-door Sti does not.
Finally in terms of reliability - my car has been heavily modified for 40,000 of its nearly 50,000 miles - it is an import.
One thing has gone wrong - the rear wiper is squeaky.
Two other things have gone wrong due to my tuning/driving - I needed to replace the third gear sprocket - due to bad track driving - and a sensor (MAF) has died due to the use of an induction kit.
In terms of getting parts - there is no difference to getting UK parts and many Scooby dealers are now much happier to help than in the past.
In the end it is up to you - all Scoobies are good - UK cars are good - imports are good - they are different....what is it you want and what do you need?
Trout
16 August 2002, 10:13 AM
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Davyboy was selling his euro-import MY01 WRX for some really low value. I think it was 13k. You would have enough change left over to get it decatted and a boost controller fitted.
16 August 2002, 10:24 AM
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C'mon,
we all know that all STi's have forged pistons etc
so their engines are much better than all the rest and the fact is, is that only the V-Limiteds look like they have the strongest block etc, we all know that P1's (ie STi V type R's) use exactly the same pistons as a uk turbo....
So, for pound for pound power increase, a UK car is actually better than its japanese counterpart
But saying that.....
If you wanted a 100% safe 350+BHP you will be looking at 10k+, 5k for an engine rebuild with uprated internals and a close deck block, front mounted intercooler, uprated brakes and suspension, Hybrid turbo and a decent ECU like a GEMS.... look 10k spent
Tony
we all know that all STi's have forged pistons etc
so their engines are much better than all the rest and the fact is, is that only the V-Limiteds look like they have the strongest block etc, we all know that P1's (ie STi V type R's) use exactly the same pistons as a uk turbo....So, for pound for pound power increase, a UK car is actually better than its japanese counterpart
But saying that.....
If you wanted a 100% safe 350+BHP you will be looking at 10k+, 5k for an engine rebuild with uprated internals and a close deck block, front mounted intercooler, uprated brakes and suspension, Hybrid turbo and a decent ECU like a GEMS.... look 10k spent
Tony
16 August 2002, 10:43 AM
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Serena
I've had my STI V from new, there were 55 miles on the clock when I bought it. Its now done 59,000.
The only problems I've had are :
Rear drops replaced as one broke
Dump Valve replaced as it broke
New Battery
New central locking controller (the original was knackered by the alarm being incorrectly wired I've been told)
Other than that 60,000 miles of extremely enjoyable ownership
Paul
I've had my STI V from new, there were 55 miles on the clock when I bought it. Its now done 59,000.
The only problems I've had are :
Rear drops replaced as one broke
Dump Valve replaced as it broke
New Battery
New central locking controller (the original was knackered by the alarm being incorrectly wired I've been told)
Other than that 60,000 miles of extremely enjoyable ownership
Paul
16 August 2002, 10:47 AM
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Davyboy was selling his euro-import MY01 WRX for some really low value. I think it was 13k. You would have enough change left over to get it decatted and a boost controller fitted.
16 August 2002, 11:24 AM
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Tony,
if you are going to do a proper rebuild and sort - it will be more than 10k.
Why do you think Stis do not have forged pistons - all the STi V pistons I have seen are forged? And it is the same engine as the P1. Also - there is no such thing as a Phase II closed deck block - unless you have one made and very few people know how to do it properly. Much cheaper to uprate the head studs and wire ring it.
There are plenty of cars, both UK and Sti, running around with 330-360 bhp without going internal - and with a high degree of longevity - both on road and on track - maybe you just had a bad experience...
...in fact one of these cars - with around 345bhp and over 70,000 miles on the clock was just clocked at 166.6mph at Elvington
Anyway - it is all beside the point - obviously you know best and we should all scrap our STis now - Grabber - you heard it here first - don't buy an STi
On a serious note - if you are not into all this tuning mullarky - get yourself an RB5 WR spec - if you get a good one you love it.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 8/16/2002 11:28:15 AM]
if you are going to do a proper rebuild and sort - it will be more than 10k.
Why do you think Stis do not have forged pistons - all the STi V pistons I have seen are forged? And it is the same engine as the P1. Also - there is no such thing as a Phase II closed deck block - unless you have one made and very few people know how to do it properly. Much cheaper to uprate the head studs and wire ring it.
There are plenty of cars, both UK and Sti, running around with 330-360 bhp without going internal - and with a high degree of longevity - both on road and on track - maybe you just had a bad experience...
...in fact one of these cars - with around 345bhp and over 70,000 miles on the clock was just clocked at 166.6mph at Elvington
Anyway - it is all beside the point - obviously you know best and we should all scrap our STis now - Grabber - you heard it here first - don't buy an STi
On a serious note - if you are not into all this tuning mullarky - get yourself an RB5 WR spec - if you get a good one you love it.
Trout
[Edited by Trout - 8/16/2002 11:28:15 AM]
16 August 2002, 11:58 AM
#24
Or you could just buy a bog standard 280BHP STi5 TypeRA V-Limited and have all the extras as standard. This is the 4 door version. You could get the 2 door TypeR which is almost as quick/identical, but lacks the quickrack.
You want a fast car, buy one of these. You have no need to mod them.
Incedentally, the fastest Impreza on the handling course at the recent top10 shootout at elvington was the above car, mine.
The STi5 TypeRA V-Ltd does not have a closed deck block, it does has the forged pistons and revs to 8200rpm. It also comes with all the toys like centre diff control, intercooler sprays, big brakes, big drievshafts, front and rear LSD, Quickrack, Auto Aircon, Electric mirrors/windows, Sports seats, alloy boot and bonnet, larger intercooler, carbon fibre strut brace, close ratio gearbox, roof vent etc etc.
The STi typeR/RA are much quicker out of the box than a UK turbo, they are higher spec. If you dont want to spend £1000's on mods yet want a quick impreza, this is what you need.
You want a fast car, buy one of these. You have no need to mod them.
Incedentally, the fastest Impreza on the handling course at the recent top10 shootout at elvington was the above car, mine.
The STi5 TypeRA V-Ltd does not have a closed deck block, it does has the forged pistons and revs to 8200rpm. It also comes with all the toys like centre diff control, intercooler sprays, big brakes, big drievshafts, front and rear LSD, Quickrack, Auto Aircon, Electric mirrors/windows, Sports seats, alloy boot and bonnet, larger intercooler, carbon fibre strut brace, close ratio gearbox, roof vent etc etc.
The STi typeR/RA are much quicker out of the box than a UK turbo, they are higher spec. If you dont want to spend £1000's on mods yet want a quick impreza, this is what you need.
16 August 2002, 12:42 PM
#27
hehe sti v UK thread I like it
At the end of the day a standard UK car is a bloody quick, good handling, well specced car compared to anything else on the road at the same price! The sti's of course are quicker, lighter etc etc, but how fast do you need to really go, unless youre a trackday warrior?
I'll save my pennies on insurance, fuel, dealer warranty and stick with the UK for now, and mod it to 280-300bhp before I sell it
At the end of the day a standard UK car is a bloody quick, good handling, well specced car compared to anything else on the road at the same price! The sti's of course are quicker, lighter etc etc, but how fast do you need to really go, unless youre a trackday warrior?
I'll save my pennies on insurance, fuel, dealer warranty and stick with the UK for now, and mod it to 280-300bhp before I sell it
16 August 2002, 01:42 PM
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Bioforger,
what get's me about the UK v STi debate is that for some reason Uk owners always have to go on about bad imports are - you don't get Sti owners going on about how underspecced/slow/poorly suspended UK cars are
Trout
what get's me about the UK v STi debate is that for some reason Uk owners always have to go on about bad imports are - you don't get Sti owners going on about how underspecced/slow/poorly suspended UK cars are
Trout
16 August 2002, 02:19 PM
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Trout, your spot on, how many times do you see adverts, stating that it's not a grey import as if that's bad...
what 280bhp, air con, better suspension, brakes more toys etc is bad I don't understand....or rather I do,
we are "goverened" by clever manufacturers who inturn govern car insurance companies & servicing centres etc...we all know how it works, but things do appear to be changing, just too slowly as usual.
shunty (MY95 UK, but 280 bhp)
what 280bhp, air con, better suspension, brakes more toys etc is bad
I don't understand....or rather I do, we are "goverened" by clever manufacturers who inturn govern car insurance companies & servicing centres etc...we all know how it works, but things do appear to be changing, just too slowly as usual.
shunty (MY95 UK, but 280 bhp
)