P1 isnt THAT fast !!!! is it worth the money ?
22 July 2002, 04:01 PM
#1
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Perhaps someone can explain the difference, apart from the looks, that a P1 has over a 280bmt jap import ? I know the gearing is spread out more but that dont help you beat Porsches off the lights.
22 July 2002, 04:09 PM
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P1 is a Type R with UK spec suspension, Gearbox, etc so not really any different, certainly not worth the extra money over a Type R imho
22 July 2002, 04:42 PM
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Most important thing for me was the warranty and a trackstar.
Preferr the bodykit on a P1 as well. And my dealer wouldn't touch an import with a barge pole. Had a car in his yard for ages. Told me it'd had an engine warning light come on and they wouldn't fix it (or couldn't). Put me off quite quickly.
Preferr the bodykit on a P1 as well. And my dealer wouldn't touch an import with a barge pole. Had a car in his yard for ages. Told me it'd had an engine warning light come on and they wouldn't fix it (or couldn't). Put me off quite quickly.
22 July 2002, 05:06 PM
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you dealer is obviously as in idiot as it runs the same fault codes as the UK cars.
trackstar can be retro fitted as can UK P1 suspsension which is so good that many P1 owners take it off!
Body kit? a badly painted front skirt, and an ugly wing that is worse looking than the sti 5 wing it replaces!
trackstar can be retro fitted as can UK P1 suspsension which is so good that many P1 owners take it off!
Body kit? a badly painted front skirt, and an ugly wing that is worse looking than the sti 5 wing it replaces!
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22 July 2002, 06:11 PM
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Lol P1 rear wing looks the dogs bollocks IMHO - in fact my favourite style spoiler. As for the rest of the bodykit - well it all blends to make the best looking scoob so they did something right.
And no I dont have one but they are most definetely my favourite model.
Simon.
And no I dont have one but they are most definetely my favourite model.
Simon.
22 July 2002, 06:39 PM
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I bought one last week and after the initial shock of spending ££££££'s getting it I now use it every day and haven't looked back.
More fun than a large selection of jelly covered Hampsters down your trousers!!!! Oooppps did I say that out loud?
More fun than a large selection of jelly covered Hampsters down your trousers!!!! Oooppps did I say that out loud?
22 July 2002, 07:15 PM
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Lets put it like this, as a family we have now had a lot of Impreza turbos between us (its well into double figures). They have been of all different shapes and sizes.
As far as the P1 is concerned it's my opinion you need the big brakes and wheels to enjoy it to its absolute fullest (but not everyone would agree with me there), so the price as new was very difficult to justify. Now that you can pick up a minter for early twenties there is absolutely no question in my mind as to which is the best Impreza to buy. Of course if you can afford a P1 you can afford any Impreza you want (possibly excepting the 22B) so that probably says it all as the choice has not been influenced by any non-driving factors, like buget.
However, I am sure that some individuals will by a P1 over another Impreza for reasons of prestige (what a shame-it shouldn't be allowed). Maybe not dissimilar to buying a Type R over an RA though??.
At the end of the day all Imprezas shine in different circumstances. My mate's got an STi RA which is probably the biggest buzz of all Imprezas, in the right conditions. Its also the biggest nightmare when in the wrong conditions (and he won't mind me saying so either.
I have not known a single Impreza yet that wasn't a fantastic car.
(Sorry for the rant - its been one of those days)
As far as the P1 is concerned it's my opinion you need the big brakes and wheels to enjoy it to its absolute fullest (but not everyone would agree with me there), so the price as new was very difficult to justify. Now that you can pick up a minter for early twenties there is absolutely no question in my mind as to which is the best Impreza to buy. Of course if you can afford a P1 you can afford any Impreza you want (possibly excepting the 22B) so that probably says it all as the choice has not been influenced by any non-driving factors, like buget.
However, I am sure that some individuals will by a P1 over another Impreza for reasons of prestige (what a shame-it shouldn't be allowed). Maybe not dissimilar to buying a Type R over an RA though??.
At the end of the day all Imprezas shine in different circumstances. My mate's got an STi RA which is probably the biggest buzz of all Imprezas, in the right conditions. Its also the biggest nightmare when in the wrong conditions (and he won't mind me saying so either.
I have not known a single Impreza yet that wasn't a fantastic car.
(Sorry for the rant - its been one of those days)
22 July 2002, 07:32 PM
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I thought the rent a quote wallies would be present in this thread, and indeed it seems they are.
I have owned both the type R and now have a P1. I didnt get on with the sti, mainly due to the wayward handling, and the stories at the time of the version 5 engine going AWOL. I therefore traded into a P1 and have felt totally comfortable with my purchase. Yes the brand new P1 cost me £11500 more than the s reg typeR. But for my money I was getting an "official" car with a proper warranty, (just try and claim for a new engine for a sti5 with an insurance backed warranty company) a car more suited to UK roads,(its totally different to drive from the typeR) and a car thats much better looking IMHO
So it all boils down to what you want in the end. I know I am totally happy with my decision. If youre not a power slide fanatic,not too worried about paying a little more (yes it is a little when u take everything into account) and want a car with a proper warranty that is suited to uk roads get a P1.
I have owned both the type R and now have a P1. I didnt get on with the sti, mainly due to the wayward handling, and the stories at the time of the version 5 engine going AWOL. I therefore traded into a P1 and have felt totally comfortable with my purchase. Yes the brand new P1 cost me £11500 more than the s reg typeR. But for my money I was getting an "official" car with a proper warranty, (just try and claim for a new engine for a sti5 with an insurance backed warranty company) a car more suited to UK roads,(its totally different to drive from the typeR) and a car thats much better looking IMHO
So it all boils down to what you want in the end. I know I am totally happy with my decision. If youre not a power slide fanatic,not too worried about paying a little more (yes it is a little when u take everything into account) and want a car with a proper warranty that is suited to uk roads get a P1.
22 July 2002, 08:39 PM
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Just to back up my mate TUR8Os comments above I can honestly say that if you have the money for a P1 then yes, spend it. I have an STI RA which should be pretty much identical in performance to the two-door STI type Rs. The main point is that the P1 has an STI engine, but Prodrive has tinkered with it to run on the fuel available in this country, which is of a lower octane than that in Japan. The STI's may well produce 280bhp on 100-octane fuel, but the best you're going to find over here is 98-octane Shell Optimax. This takes the power output of a standard STI engine down by a few BHP unfortunately, whereas the P1 still produces 280bhp on normal Super unleaded fuel (97-octane).
The main point is that TUR8O in his P1 is WITHOUT DOUBT slightly quicker in a straight line when over speeds of about 100mph, up till then there's not enough in it to call. Thats a P1 standard other that a decent air filter and de-cat exhaust (and a tarty mesh grille
) and an STI RA with similar mods running both running on Shell Optimax fuel. Somebody will now probably tell me that my STI is older or some 555hite, but that is what we have found in numerous attempts.
And as for handling in the wet, unless you take a change of kegs when you go driving, stick with the P1...
[Edited by Harps WRX - 7/22/2002 8:41:05 PM]
The main point is that TUR8O in his P1 is WITHOUT DOUBT slightly quicker in a straight line when over speeds of about 100mph, up till then there's not enough in it to call. Thats a P1 standard other that a decent air filter and de-cat exhaust (and a tarty mesh grille
) and an STI RA with similar mods running both running on Shell Optimax fuel. Somebody will now probably tell me that my STI is older or some 555hite, but that is what we have found in numerous attempts.And as for handling in the wet, unless you take a change of kegs when you go driving, stick with the P1...
[Edited by Harps WRX - 7/22/2002 8:41:05 PM]
22 July 2002, 09:18 PM
#15
I really dont understand all this nonsense about typeR/RA's being dificult to drive in the wet, they aren't. I think the problem here is people read magazine articles and what the writer says becomes gospel, half the writers dont know how to drive, so if a car is a bit more of a challenge to get max performance out of (ie to really ring its neck you need some skill because its limits are very high), it becomes a dificult car. If its detuned and easy to drive (has lots of numbing, take it to the limits and it just understeers), then its awesome. How many P1 owners have uprated the suspension, how many have had the geometries changed to sharpen them up? hundreds!
The basic facts are that the P1 is a detuned STi5 TypeR, it doesnt have a quickrack, it doesnt have the uprated driveshafts, it doesnt have the centre diff controlled box, it doesnt have the bigger rear diff, it doesnt have the close ratio box, it doesnt have the 2 pot rear brakes, it doesnt have the Intercooler sprays etc etc. Out of the box the TypeR/RA is a pretty docile handling car, its not over firm or nervous, it has much higher performance limits and if you choose to push those limits then if you dont have any skill, you will find it harder to cope, but thats at a point where the P1 would have long ago started to drop off in performance.
The main advantage to a P1 is the ABS and waranty, to have the ABS you cant have a centre diff control or Intercooler sprays. Thats the choice prodrive made, they basically dumbed down the car and charged you for the priveledge.
The basic facts are that the P1 is a detuned STi5 TypeR, it doesnt have a quickrack, it doesnt have the uprated driveshafts, it doesnt have the centre diff controlled box, it doesnt have the bigger rear diff, it doesnt have the close ratio box, it doesnt have the 2 pot rear brakes, it doesnt have the Intercooler sprays etc etc. Out of the box the TypeR/RA is a pretty docile handling car, its not over firm or nervous, it has much higher performance limits and if you choose to push those limits then if you dont have any skill, you will find it harder to cope, but thats at a point where the P1 would have long ago started to drop off in performance.
The main advantage to a P1 is the ABS and waranty, to have the ABS you cant have a centre diff control or Intercooler sprays. Thats the choice prodrive made, they basically dumbed down the car and charged you for the priveledge.
22 July 2002, 09:19 PM
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I owned an RA.
Then my friend got a P1 (he had to go one better) and let me tell you that the P1 is a weapon. An absoloute weapon.
The RA was quick...but down anything other than a straight road it will not touch the P1.
Neither will much else. A Skyline has given him some difficulties, as has an EVO 6.
Porsches are just dust. Admittedly they have a little more power...in a straight line. But seriously....round the countryside, it is lighter and less wallowy than ******* 911 GT.
I love P1s. I wish I could afford one.
Then my friend got a P1 (he had to go one better) and let me tell you that the P1 is a weapon. An absoloute weapon.
The RA was quick...but down anything other than a straight road it will not touch the P1.
Neither will much else. A Skyline has given him some difficulties, as has an EVO 6.
Porsches are just dust. Admittedly they have a little more power...in a straight line. But seriously....round the countryside, it is lighter and less wallowy than ******* 911 GT.
I love P1s. I wish I could afford one.
22 July 2002, 09:58 PM
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Adam M - Mate your missing the point in your desperation to take the p1ss out of my car......I like all of those bits. Thats why I bought one. It's called a package. I didn't want to buy a car and change the suspension or add a tracker. I wanted to buy it all from one place. I love my P1. I've had 3 scoobs and a TVR now and it's definately the best.
Try not to be so mocking when you post. It's not nice.
Out of interest what do you own?
Try not to be so mocking when you post. It's not nice.
Out of interest what do you own?
22 July 2002, 10:26 PM
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John,
I am not quoting magazines, don't ever believe the hype they talk and never will. I have driven miles in both a friends P1 and my RA on A roads and B roads, it's just about all we spend our weekends doing. On a wet A road, with a little more concentration the RA is as quick as a P1. I'm afraid to say on B roads, at least the ones I drive, there is no way you can make a standard RA keep up with a standard P1 WR. It is bouncing, tracking every camber and basically not transmitting to me enough feel for the road. In contrast, the P1 just takes it all in its stride on the suspension, and I can immediatly drive someone elses P1 quicker than my own car in these conditions. Can't be bothered to go into P1/STI comparison because life's too short, just thought I'd offer my own opinion to the guy asking.
By the way, a P1 is the only other car I'd swap mine for. And I would miss the tail happy rawness of the RA.
I am not quoting magazines, don't ever believe the hype they talk and never will. I have driven miles in both a friends P1 and my RA on A roads and B roads, it's just about all we spend our weekends doing. On a wet A road, with a little more concentration the RA is as quick as a P1. I'm afraid to say on B roads, at least the ones I drive, there is no way you can make a standard RA keep up with a standard P1 WR. It is bouncing, tracking every camber and basically not transmitting to me enough feel for the road. In contrast, the P1 just takes it all in its stride on the suspension, and I can immediatly drive someone elses P1 quicker than my own car in these conditions. Can't be bothered to go into P1/STI comparison because life's too short, just thought I'd offer my own opinion to the guy asking.
By the way, a P1 is the only other car I'd swap mine for. And I would miss the tail happy rawness of the RA.
22 July 2002, 11:19 PM
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No one is stopping you fitting P1 suspension to an RA if that what you want. Just because the P1 suspension has been soften for UK roads doesnt mean its the best suited for all occasions, soem road yes other no. As John said the P1 map was tweaked to run on UK fuel but this doesnt mean it has more power than an STI5/6 on 97/98RON all the RR results seem to suggest there isnt much in it. Poeple have this idea that a P1 is the ultimate impreza I am afraid that title belongs to the 22B (eh adam 
). I nealry brought a P1 but I decided on an RA (in P1/22B/74F/new rally/sonic blue) which is quicker in gear and saved myself 9K for insurance and mods . Each to his/her own though and the P1 IMHO is still a great piece of kit just not as keenly priced.
Cheers
ChrisP
). I nealry brought a P1 but I decided on an RA (in P1/22B/74F/new rally/sonic blue) which is quicker in gear and saved myself 9K for insurance and mods . Each to his/her own though and the P1 IMHO is still a great piece of kit just not as keenly priced.Cheers
ChrisP
22 July 2002, 11:36 PM
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I drove P1, and then drove a TypeR, I loved the rear wheel bias of my R and then I can dial in the diff and have a go kart...
I really like the P1 colour & looks, but after buying my TypeR for 16K brand spanking, i can afford to do it in tartan if I wanted with the money I saved.
I really like the P1 colour & looks, but after buying my TypeR for 16K brand spanking, i can afford to do it in tartan if I wanted with the money I saved.
22 July 2002, 11:40 PM
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John.
Im not quoting magazine articles when i say that the type R was skittish in the wet, i had one, as im sure that we have discussed before! I use my car every day and in all weather types. Im simply saying that the P1 is better suited to the uk roads and weather conditions rather than a typeR which basically is a road car set for track use. You have to be 100 % wary when driving at a rapid pace on a wet B road. Not all of us are racing drivers, and i for one was never happy with the handling of a typeR. Call me a big jessie that should have experimented more and possibly have forked out for expert tuition, I can take it lol.
In retrospect i made a mistake in buying the typeR. Thats not to say it wasn't a lovely car, it was. However in the P1 i know i can drive more faster and more safely along the same roads as i could in a typeR. I would be willing to bet that a my00 with ppp driven against a typeR on a wet twisty would easily keep up, if the drivers were of the same quality. Having said that on a track the typeR would waste it. So why did i buy a P1 instead of a my01 with ppp? good question........ Im a sucker for the blue colour, big wing and gold wheels!
BTW im sure there arent hundereds of P1 owners running different suspension, if there are ive yet to meet one in the flesh.
Im not quoting magazine articles when i say that the type R was skittish in the wet, i had one, as im sure that we have discussed before! I use my car every day and in all weather types. Im simply saying that the P1 is better suited to the uk roads and weather conditions rather than a typeR which basically is a road car set for track use. You have to be 100 % wary when driving at a rapid pace on a wet B road. Not all of us are racing drivers, and i for one was never happy with the handling of a typeR. Call me a big jessie that should have experimented more and possibly have forked out for expert tuition, I can take it lol.
In retrospect i made a mistake in buying the typeR. Thats not to say it wasn't a lovely car, it was. However in the P1 i know i can drive more faster and more safely along the same roads as i could in a typeR. I would be willing to bet that a my00 with ppp driven against a typeR on a wet twisty would easily keep up, if the drivers were of the same quality. Having said that on a track the typeR would waste it. So why did i buy a P1 instead of a my01 with ppp? good question........
Im a sucker for the blue colour, big wing and gold wheels!BTW im sure there arent hundereds of P1 owners running different suspension, if there are ive yet to meet one in the flesh.
23 July 2002, 10:08 AM
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My 2p worth......
when mine (STI V 4 door) was std suspesnsion wise, bar a set of Eibachs, 3 Scoob friends (2 Type R owners, one P1 WR) comented at how well it handled and how much more composed it felt down country lanes than theirs......
As std a P1 will have finer tuned geometry than the imports/std uk cars and willfeel more responsive, turn in better etc etc. If these imports have less than ideal geometry, they're gonna feel worse no matter what.
when mine (STI V 4 door) was std suspesnsion wise, bar a set of Eibachs, 3 Scoob friends (2 Type R owners, one P1 WR) comented at how well it handled and how much more composed it felt down country lanes than theirs......
As std a P1 will have finer tuned geometry than the imports/std uk cars and willfeel more responsive, turn in better etc etc. If these imports have less than ideal geometry, they're gonna feel worse no matter what.
23 July 2002, 10:27 AM
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craig I disagree on the grounds that type rs more often than not have a quick rack which does wonders for the steering feel, but alas not the turn in.
This can be mostly sorted by geometry.
Medders,
my post was not meant to sound antagonistic, and I am sorry if it offended you. I dont agree with your need to get everyhting cleanly sorted out and handled in a one-stop shop but I can appreciate why you do.
I am just as pleased to see a P1 on the road as any other impreza, but the marketing hype that pulled in a lot of new owners making them believe they had the ultimate impreza is what annoyed me.
I remember some guy pulled me in behind me and was really excited about having bought a P1. He was quick to point out that it was the ultimate impreza and was by far the fastest and was going to show my car a clean set of heels.
I dont understand this, they are all pretty much 280 with similar torque and similar weight, where do people think this increased performance comes from.
The P1 is a great car, but I agree completely with JohnF. They started with a great car and took all the good bits off. Admittedly the final car is a great package and handles beautifully and is well composed, but it isnt exciting and alive in the same way as a quick rack, r180 shod, manual diffed type R.
The warranty does not validate the price premium. you can buy a version wrx type r and spend 500 on suspension. you then have a car which only differs from the P1 in its wheels, rear wing and front splitter, and that baby will cost you about £13,000 all in. With the money you save you can have a few engine builds if you need them and buy the spoiler and splitter and wheels if you really feel left out!
Either way medders, it was not meant to wind you up, and as I said, I am sorry if it did.
and by the way I drive a STi 4 Type R (kinda).
This can be mostly sorted by geometry.
Medders,
my post was not meant to sound antagonistic, and I am sorry if it offended you. I dont agree with your need to get everyhting cleanly sorted out and handled in a one-stop shop but I can appreciate why you do.
I am just as pleased to see a P1 on the road as any other impreza, but the marketing hype that pulled in a lot of new owners making them believe they had the ultimate impreza is what annoyed me.
I remember some guy pulled me in behind me and was really excited about having bought a P1. He was quick to point out that it was the ultimate impreza and was by far the fastest and was going to show my car a clean set of heels.
I dont understand this, they are all pretty much 280 with similar torque and similar weight, where do people think this increased performance comes from.
The P1 is a great car, but I agree completely with JohnF. They started with a great car and took all the good bits off. Admittedly the final car is a great package and handles beautifully and is well composed, but it isnt exciting and alive in the same way as a quick rack, r180 shod, manual diffed type R.
The warranty does not validate the price premium. you can buy a version wrx type r and spend 500 on suspension. you then have a car which only differs from the P1 in its wheels, rear wing and front splitter, and that baby will cost you about £13,000 all in. With the money you save you can have a few engine builds if you need them and buy the spoiler and splitter and wheels if you really feel left out!
Either way medders, it was not meant to wind you up, and as I said, I am sorry if it did.
and by the way I drive a STi 4 Type R (kinda).
23 July 2002, 10:49 AM
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JonnyF and Adam - dead right, I flogged my P1 (which I had done 22k in) for a nice little grey import, because the P1, was to boring, I gave up taking it on track as it was no fun, infact it was only any fun to drive on the road at 10/10th, just like the crappy evo bags of Sh*t, they do to much for you.
An now I'm as happy as a sand lark, as I have a car that takes some skill to drive, an has all the right parts :P
PS, My P1 was pushing out 300bhp
An now I'm as happy as a sand lark, as I have a car that takes some skill to drive, an has all the right parts
:PPS, My P1 was pushing out 300bhp
23 July 2002, 11:30 AM
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I kind of felt i'd wimped out after a year with my Sti5 V-Limted. I agree competely with many of the comments here but found as a daily drive on 18's it was too hard and definitely "skittish" in the wet. So i fitted P1 suspension, adjusted geometry and i've found a dramatic improvement. Somehow, the softer suspension has "softened" the somewhat antagonistic rear diff so its a much friendlier car, and faster on bumpy/wet roads.
BUT - its still much louder, more raw and more of a handful than the P1 i drove last year. I'd get bored with the P1 as it didn't really light my fire. Probably faster, but less fun. For me, the RA's kick ***, but need a bit of sorting. And i get way more toys as John pointed out above.
Personal opinion of course!
Mind you, P1's are Crap because they don't have the electric fold-in mirrors!
Russ
BUT - its still much louder, more raw and more of a handful than the P1 i drove last year. I'd get bored with the P1 as it didn't really light my fire. Probably faster, but less fun. For me, the RA's kick ***, but need a bit of sorting. And i get way more toys as John pointed out above.
Personal opinion of course!
Mind you, P1's are Crap because they don't have the electric fold-in mirrors!
Russ
23 July 2002, 11:48 AM
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dont they?
oh my god. I had no idea!
another crushing argument
Personal choice.
ultimately had I had a warranty, I would have had much more use of my car and been much richer. but then it would be a 22B type uk not a P1.
oh my god. I had no idea!
another crushing argument
Personal choice.
ultimately had I had a warranty, I would have had much more use of my car and been much richer. but then it would be a 22B type uk not a P1.
23 July 2002, 12:45 PM
#29
In response to Zero7.....
I had an STi 5 4-door saloon. The drivetrain (Engine,gearbox etc) is IDENTICAL to the P1. I did, however, change the springs to the P1 items (on the original STi V struts) and did have the geometry setup. This improved the car, as the original springs are for the smooth tarmac of Japan, not our rutted, potholed excuses for roads.
I also had the ECU map from the P1 put in, to put any fears of running on UK fuel to bed.
With this setup the car was great. As any P1 is !!!!
Cheers
I had an STi 5 4-door saloon. The drivetrain (Engine,gearbox etc) is IDENTICAL to the P1. I did, however, change the springs to the P1 items (on the original STi V struts) and did have the geometry setup. This improved the car, as the original springs are for the smooth tarmac of Japan, not our rutted, potholed excuses for roads.
I also had the ECU map from the P1 put in, to put any fears of running on UK fuel to bed.
With this setup the car was great. As any P1 is !!!!
Cheers
