UK turbo VS P1 VS Honda Accord R
14 June 2001, 09:51 PM
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Keeping with the current theme of comparing cars, how does the standard turbo compare to the P1. Me and my Dad drove the P1 and it didn't seem that much punchier then the standard Turbo (which we have 
)
When choosing our new car (last year) we had 3 in mind, the Subaru, Honda Accord R, and the Alfa 156 V6.
Quickly we narrowed it down to the Scoob and Honda, I drove the Honda down the motorway, and it has THE best sounding engine EVER.
But the AWD of the Subaru just sold it to us.
Its far from standard now though (Gold 17"'s, Prodive rear wing, 3" exhaust - plus more to come!)
) When choosing our new car (last year) we had 3 in mind, the Subaru, Honda Accord R, and the Alfa 156 V6.
Quickly we narrowed it down to the Scoob and Honda, I drove the Honda down the motorway, and it has THE best sounding engine EVER.
But the AWD of the Subaru just sold it to us.
Its far from standard now though (Gold 17"'s, Prodive rear wing, 3" exhaust - plus more to come!)
15 June 2001, 09:02 AM
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Fortunate position to have driven them all, and owned two.
I chose a 156 V6 over the Accord Type R. Disagree with the Accord engine comment - the Alfa V6 (with sports exhaust on as well
) is THE best engine note this side of an Italian V8/V12. The Alfa wasn't quite as raw as the accord, but it felt faster, hendled better (did have sports suspension) better steering (feedback and front end grip), better at overcoming the FWD problem, better looks, better build quality 
far better interior.
That being said, a UK turbo is far more of a sports car than either, faster A-B, better grip, more controllable and better fun, but loses out to my old V6 Alfa in the looks/interior/engine note/'passion'/steering feedback and directness and is a nicer place to sit in traffic. Notwithstanding the pull of the Scoob over comes the above - hence why I changed the 156 for one
The P1 is a level above again. Does what the turbo does, just better. More grunt, better handling, (marginally) better interior, (marginally) better looks, more desirability/cache....but all at a price. Even at £29/30k, I think the P1 is poor VFM. My MY99 was PPP'd + downpipe, centre section, induction kit etc, and was over 10bhp and 30lb ft up on a P1, and thus quicker. I had aircon/17" wheels etc fitted and the whole thing cost around £27k. P1 is/was still a very attractive package though
In summary.
156 V6 - stunning capable all round sports saloon without any real downsides
Type R - not as all round capable as the Alfa, not as performance biased as the scoob - and still an Accord
UK Scoob - cracking bang per buck, performance biased 'ultimate' midsized sports saloon, but compromised as in everyday use
P1 - level above the UK, better in all/most areas, and at £27/28k would have been a stunner, but VFM lets it down.
Of the four - I would go UK turbo, and spend the extra on PPP and aesthetic improvements, unless mielage is high and comfort important in which case the Alfa makes a very tempting choice.
I now own none of the above - and still miss the Alfa as much if not more than the scooby
I chose a 156 V6 over the Accord Type R. Disagree with the Accord engine comment - the Alfa V6 (with sports exhaust on as well
) is THE best engine note this side of an Italian V8/V12. The Alfa wasn't quite as raw as the accord, but it felt faster, hendled better (did have sports suspension) better steering (feedback and front end grip), better at overcoming the FWD problem, better looks, better build quality far better interior.That being said, a UK turbo is far more of a sports car than either, faster A-B, better grip, more controllable and better fun, but loses out to my old V6 Alfa in the looks/interior/engine note/'passion'/steering feedback and directness and is a nicer place to sit in traffic. Notwithstanding the pull of the Scoob over comes the above - hence why I changed the 156 for one
The P1 is a level above again. Does what the turbo does, just better. More grunt, better handling, (marginally) better interior, (marginally) better looks, more desirability/cache....but all at a price. Even at £29/30k, I think the P1 is poor VFM. My MY99 was PPP'd + downpipe, centre section, induction kit etc, and was over 10bhp and 30lb ft up on a P1, and thus quicker. I had aircon/17" wheels etc fitted and the whole thing cost around £27k. P1 is/was still a very attractive package though
In summary.
156 V6 - stunning capable all round sports saloon without any real downsides
Type R - not as all round capable as the Alfa, not as performance biased as the scoob - and still an Accord
UK Scoob - cracking bang per buck, performance biased 'ultimate' midsized sports saloon, but compromised as in everyday use
P1 - level above the UK, better in all/most areas, and at £27/28k would have been a stunner, but VFM lets it down.
Of the four - I would go UK turbo, and spend the extra on PPP and aesthetic improvements, unless mielage is high and comfort important in which case the Alfa makes a very tempting choice.
I now own none of the above - and still miss the Alfa as much if not more than the scooby
15 June 2001, 09:07 AM
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P1's don't seem to be selling well at the moment. I took advantage of this yesterday and bought one
Px'd my MY99. Got to run it in for a bit, but already it feels more powerfull, better handling, and surprisingly (to me anyway) extremely smooth over roads that would jarr the turbo.
Can't wait to see what it will do above 4000rpm!
Px'd my MY99. Got to run it in for a bit, but already it feels more powerfull, better handling, and surprisingly (to me anyway) extremely smooth over roads that would jarr the turbo.
Can't wait to see what it will do above 4000rpm!
15 June 2001, 10:55 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by medders:
<B>P1's don't seem to be selling well at the moment. I took advantage of this yesterday and bought one
[/quote]
How much have they been going for - them P1 thingies?
I hear they are not selling but my dealer says they are still £31k.
If they came down £10k id have one
<B>P1's don't seem to be selling well at the moment. I took advantage of this yesterday and bought one
[/quote]
How much have they been going for - them P1 thingies?
I hear they are not selling but my dealer says they are still £31k.
If they came down £10k id have one
15 June 2001, 11:03 AM
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Jza, I got a new one for 27k. And you can get the dealer down to a really good apr on the loan as well.
It makes a change to have the upper hand when buying a new car - compared to waiting 9mnths with no chance of a discount when I bought my MY99.
It makes a change to have the upper hand when buying a new car - compared to waiting 9mnths with no chance of a discount when I bought my MY99.
15 June 2001, 11:11 AM
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Despite the opinions on this board, expressed by many, that the P1 is overpriced and the UK300 looks cack and is overpriced - Subaru have sold all the UK300s. P1s took a little longer because to insure one you have to be reasonably old, wealthy, live on your own in the sticks with a garage that has alarms, spot lights, rhino stumps, locks and razer wire.
I test drove a P1 on Monday and traded in the MY99, pick it up next week. Paid the same price as a new 330ci (26k) I'm happy with my choice - cars are always a personal choice. I saw a McRae Impreza at the Autosport show in 1995 and from that day on I had to have an impreza, that feeling hasn't changed despite test driving Alfas (agree on the beautiful engine/exhaust note), Beemers, Evo et all. Simple, personal choice.
I test drove a P1 on Monday and traded in the MY99, pick it up next week. Paid the same price as a new 330ci (26k) I'm happy with my choice - cars are always a personal choice. I saw a McRae Impreza at the Autosport show in 1995 and from that day on I had to have an impreza, that feeling hasn't changed despite test driving Alfas (agree on the beautiful engine/exhaust note), Beemers, Evo et all. Simple, personal choice.
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15 June 2001, 01:12 PM
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Medders - you got your P1 for 27k, Petoir, you got your for 26. Were these cash prices quoted from the dealer or was there some trade in deal? Were these standard P1's or did they have any of the goodies on them?
15 June 2001, 01:25 PM
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DavidG,
I traded in a MY99 with 34k on the clock.
My dealer told me that "old" shapes are like rocking horse **** at the moment, so they can't shift enough. Prices of standard ones will probably rise as a result.
Put a tiny deposit down as well.
Go and buy one. You know you want to.
Paul
I traded in a MY99 with 34k on the clock.
My dealer told me that "old" shapes are like rocking horse **** at the moment, so they can't shift enough. Prices of standard ones will probably rise as a result.
Put a tiny deposit down as well.
Go and buy one. You know you want to.
Paul
15 June 2001, 02:39 PM
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Petoir,
Right on - personal choice overcomes all, price does not always come into it I find.
What`s good for one invariably does not exactly sit with the rest. Talking of sitting, it`s just the calibration of our rears` that determines the value ? - that`s my main criteria anyway - ` feel !
That`s the main reason I`ve just changed a MY00 for a P1; if the P1 had the same power as the MY00 I would still be happy ( pro rata price of course ! )as long as it had the same ` feel ` and ` attitude `.
As for mods, not bothered on such inherently competent cars. Am fortunate to be able to put that cash into a small road *** competition car which is safe, good value and extremely challenging to drive.
After reading all the opinions on this bbs I always wonder if I have made the right choice ? - until I park my rear again.
Opinions:
Accord R - owned for a month, not happy with the engine so had a full refund.Initial impression - manic, capable and well balanced.
Integra R - fantastic all round, daily use OK, comfortable on long trips. A thrill to drive fast - yet to find anything to beat it for out and out involvement. Although Mk2 Golf GTI 16V runs it close.
MY00 Turbo - initially thought, what`s all the fuss about ? but after 13k decided that it was at it`s best in adverse conditions, even on the standard RE010`s. Excellent, smooth and effortless at speed but agricultural gearbox / clutch spoilt it on the twisty stuff.
156 V6 ( Hire car ) - glorious engine note, too soft in standard form but still capable. Thoroughly enjoyed but probably would not buy one - too much competition.
P1 - still running it in, although the wife was. Great improvement over standard car ( should be for the cash ); superb feel and much more tractable.Impression being that the electronics / programming have been done properly. Eagerly awaiting the near future !
Well, if you`ve got this far - congratulations and happy motoring!
Cheers
Right on - personal choice overcomes all, price does not always come into it I find.
What`s good for one invariably does not exactly sit with the rest. Talking of sitting, it`s just the calibration of our rears` that determines the value ? - that`s my main criteria anyway - ` feel !
That`s the main reason I`ve just changed a MY00 for a P1; if the P1 had the same power as the MY00 I would still be happy ( pro rata price of course ! )as long as it had the same ` feel ` and ` attitude `.
As for mods, not bothered on such inherently competent cars. Am fortunate to be able to put that cash into a small road *** competition car which is safe, good value and extremely challenging to drive.
After reading all the opinions on this bbs I always wonder if I have made the right choice ? - until I park my rear again.
Opinions:
Accord R - owned for a month, not happy with the engine so had a full refund.Initial impression - manic, capable and well balanced.
Integra R - fantastic all round, daily use OK, comfortable on long trips. A thrill to drive fast - yet to find anything to beat it for out and out involvement. Although Mk2 Golf GTI 16V runs it close.
MY00 Turbo - initially thought, what`s all the fuss about ? but after 13k decided that it was at it`s best in adverse conditions, even on the standard RE010`s. Excellent, smooth and effortless at speed but agricultural gearbox / clutch spoilt it on the twisty stuff.
156 V6 ( Hire car ) - glorious engine note, too soft in standard form but still capable. Thoroughly enjoyed but probably would not buy one - too much competition.
P1 - still running it in, although the wife was. Great improvement over standard car ( should be for the cash ); superb feel and much more tractable.Impression being that the electronics / programming have been done properly. Eagerly awaiting the near future !
Well, if you`ve got this far - congratulations and happy motoring!
Cheers
15 June 2001, 04:07 PM
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Old shape scoobs in DBM are currently like rocking horse poo/hen's teeth. IM gave me an amazing deal on my MY99 despite 37k miles - because they have people waiting for them. The APR on the loan is tiny in comparison even to Egg etc.
The car is bog standard (which is what I wanted) and 6 months old. If Subaru are trying to get rid of P1 stock then I stood to benefit and took full advantage. Don't forget chaps, the UK Sti if it happens is rumoured bu IM to be 240bhp. Test drive the P1, it's worth it if you can swallow the ludicrous insurance cost - it's the last of the hot old shape and a classic. Having said all that I preferred the sti 6 I drove last week but even higher insurance really put me off in the end.
The car is bog standard (which is what I wanted) and 6 months old. If Subaru are trying to get rid of P1 stock then I stood to benefit and took full advantage. Don't forget chaps, the UK Sti if it happens is rumoured bu IM to be 240bhp. Test drive the P1, it's worth it if you can swallow the ludicrous insurance cost - it's the last of the hot old shape and a classic. Having said all that I preferred the sti 6 I drove last week but even higher insurance really put me off in the end.
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