TurboFreak

I sold my P1 5 years ago (looking at prices now wish I hadn't) but was on 3rd engine in just 3 years so it had to go.
I have gone through a few fast cars since, including a 600+bhp Nissan R35, by far the fastest car I've owned but......
Not even the Skyline R35 put a smile on my face like the old scooby.
Now driving a Jag XKR 5.0 V8 supercharged 510bhp, lovely car but no fun to drive.
So at the classic car show last weekend I saw a couple of RB320.... and the urge to buy another scooby returned
I also like the 330s, so my question to you scooby fans is...
Which is the better car? and which would be better as long term investment, I know they are both limited editions.
Is there any other scoobys I should consider?
Any views and opinions greatly appreciated.

TurboFreak

Right, researching what's out there and found Cosworth got involved and there are 75 CS400 scoobies.
Now as my issue with Subaru has been unreliable engines the CS400 with forged engine etc done by Cosworth could be the way to go.
Any thoughts or if someone has a CS400 for sale I would like to hear from you

Vxr2010

firstly the rb320 for me , the cs400 they come up on ebay every so often , around 30k or so , i saw one with a cracked liner so not infallible , but also a favourite scooby of mine 👍

TurboFreak

There is one with very low mileage but dealer is asking over £49k ... about £10k over the top?
And it's red which in my opinion not the best colour

+Doc+

RB320 will be the better investor.
330S is the better daily driver.
IMHO

JdmSti2006

RB320 but seats are a must have, still will go jdm for fun,hawk or r205 instead cosworth, any limited edition will lost a value if You mod it,2.5l forged or not it will blow sooner than later anyway

EddScott

I prefer the saloons to the hatches so my buy of the two would be the RB.

I would ask though what you want out of ownership? If it's resale later on then a nice RB320 is likely to hold its value better.

If you're more likely to daily it, the 330S is younger so more likely to cope with daily use better.

If you want a more "raw" experience and it's not a daily I'd be more inclined to look for a Spec C or similar. ( I have a Spec C Type RA and an Evo 9GT and the Spec C is way more agressive). They should also hold their value well too.

TurboFreak

The idea is to have a daily drive (I don't do many miles as semi retired), in a car that's fun to drive but also a future classic. (long term investment)

The Nissan GTR was a reliabe 200mph 0-60 in under 3 seconds car that had almost everything, but never put a smile on my face like my old P1

I sold the GTR a few months ago and now have the XKR, it's a fantastic well built quick classy car which I can probably sell for 5K more than I paid for it, but it's no fun to drive and 510bhp with rear wheel drive just means you really can't use the power.

I am restoring an Austin Healey 3000 and have a Pilgrim AC Cobra that is 5.5ltr V8 which simply wants to kill you if you don't treat it with respect... so that's my 'raw experience'.

My concern with Subaru flat 4 engines is reliability, which is why the CS400 with a Cosworth built forged engine interests me, along with rarity factor as research states only 50 of the 75 stayed in UK.

MrRtm

You can't mention a cobra and not post pictures come on now :-P

I'd say the rb but that's personal taste and personally I didn't buy a car with the idea of ever selling it, hence why my first scooby is in the garage in bits ready to be rebuilt with the kids over however many years haha

adam.pah

As EddScott said above, go with a spec c (an RA if you can find one at a reasonable price). You will not be disappointed! My standard Blob RA is hands down the best impreza I've driven and I've owned and driven plenty with 400+ bhp. The RB320 is a good looking car but you need £6k in the bank for when the engine goes (and it will) and it's not as sparky as a JDM 2.0 twin scroll. Go with a JDM Blob/Hawk spec c for the best out and out driving experience or the hatch Spec c/R205 for a bit more refinement.

It looks like you're not a million miles away from me so if you are swinging past south-east essex at any point, let me know and we can take the RA out for a drive.

TurboFreak

5.5ltr chevy V8

BIGEMP

iTrader: (13)

Hi Send Munk(his username) a shout on here as he has a lovely silver cosworth Hatch which i think he is selling and he is in Sussex as well.

Scrap that he sold it a few weeks ago

adam.pah

Here is an interesting test comparing the a single scroll vs twin scroll turbo. https://dsportmag.com/the-tech/twin-...-great-divide/
I currently own both a single scroll and twin scroll and the twin scroll feels much faster point to point, even though it has less power and weighs more.

MrRtm

That is a thing of beauty, lovely car mate, always reminds me of twin town haha

TurboFreak

Yes AC Cobra was on my 'bucket list' so have finally built one.

It does look and sound fantastic... but totally impractical toy just for British summer.

And the other slight problem is with around 350bhp through rear wheel drive, no PAS, no Traction Control, no Airbags.... it simply wants to kill you, but great fun

evil.soup

iTrader: (1)

My money would go on this if I had the budget. For me, its the sweet spot of the last 15 years and is the best of road and race combined. Prices are starting to rocket as well, plus its JDM so less worry in terms of engine life etc.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-det...02111109430538

The Joshua Tree

What about an R205, they hold good value and are somewhere inbetween a 330S but closer to the CS400 than the 330S.

salsa-king

Not sure who told you that info, the 330s was never a Limited Edition car.

only about 197 were ever sold/registered according to HOWMANYLEFT . com

and about 150 stil about.


Mines been on SORN since June 2020.


but prices are going mental for them.


If mine was FS, it's offers over £31k now

TurboFreak

JDM import with little more than 300bhp and with the 2.0 flat4 engine that I have no confidence from experience with my P1 which was only mildly tuned to 310bhp but was on 3rd engine in 10,000 miles!
I don't think the R205 engine is forged, if it is then it certainly would be a car to consider.

TurboFreak

Technically not limited edition but with so few sold and only 150 on the road they might as well be.

salsa-king

when you think how many 22b's are still around and the price they fetch lol

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

P1's were notorious for engine failure, and their failures have no connection with jdm 2l engines from 2010. Although maybe not as good an investment as a CS400, I believe the R205 is at least the equal of a CS400 as a driver's car.
A daily impreza, as an investment is an oxymoron. It will only be an investment if it's low miles, sought after, and a garage queen. As pointed out, the 330s isn't a limited edition, and it's only sought after in the minds of 330s owners. Drive one, then drive a jdm or CS400 and you will understand.
As others have said, although not necessarily a better car, an RB320 is a good investment, as is a Cosworth or R205.....just dont drive it much.
If I hadn't driven my 19500 mile yellow spec C hatch 6 years ago, it would have appreciated by now. Instead, I've had 6 years and 40000 miles of awesome ownership in a car that just needed a map, actuator, 3 port bcs, fpr and panel filter to achieve 357bhp, and it's maybe lost £4k over that time. Just dont think it will be an investment as a daily.
It would be a R205, facelift hatch spec C, or CS400 for me, no question; many of my fellow spec C owners have come from earlier spec Cs or 400hp+ classics and wouldn't go back.

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

You can't compare a 22B with a 330s. That's crazy talk.

Gambit

iTrader: (6)

if youre getting a hatch just make sure it has the recaros as the other seats inc the cosworth seats (retrmmed sti seats) are poor imo

The easiest way to describe it - with the recaros you sit in them, with the others you sit on them

330s desirable only for the seats imo - For a daily, id take a facelift hatch over a 330s and i own a 330s

TurboFreak

Do you know what was done to improve this engine from 2010? I see so many ads for with lowish mileage scoobies with rebuilt engines, both 2ltr and 2.5ltr to me the engines are still an issue.

When I bought my P1 the car had been standing for a year but the engine was a recon unit with only 3,000 miles on it, but out of guarantee.. it lasted about 4000 more miles then big ends started knocking.

I bought a good engine (from club member on here actually) checked it over, new cambelt, water pump etc etc but importantly fitted an uprated oil pump as advised the issue was poor oil pressure to rear bearings on these flat 4s that was a problem.

But about 5,000 miles and exactly same problem, knocking rear big end again, so engine number 3 or sell car?

I now wish I had bit the bullet and paid for a good quality forged engine and kept car.

adam.pah

P1 had an open deck engine and, as Hedge mentioned, they messed about with the fuelling. A quick search of this forum will tell you all you need to know.
The newage (exl. UK Hawk) and JDM hatch STi cars have the semi-closed deck EJ207, some earlier cars (bug & early blob) have forged pistons whereas the later ones have hypereutectic pistons (as far as I'm aware). All of the EJ207 variants are capable of running 400bhp reliably. I posted in this thread about the difference in the twin scroll vs single scroll already, maybe you missed it.
The CS400 engine is the only forged production engine. If I remember correctly, Cosworth only warrantied the engine for 36k miles or 3 years which was both surprising and concerning at the time.

To go back to you original post:

Which is the better car?
- 330 is more refined with a better chassis. RB320 is 'probably' more engaging to drive. What are you looking for?

Which would be better as long term investment?
- RB320 (but be mindful that both have the chocolate 2.5 engine)

Is there any other scoobys I should consider?
- Yes, a few. I already posted that earlier in the thread.

hedgecutter

iTrader: (5)

Didn't the P1 have an octane canister in the fuel tank, because the mapping had areas within it that were inadequate?
Both 2l and 2.5l have the same pistons by the time the 2.5l was introduced, so either may suffer Ringland failure. However, the 2.5l seems to have more issues with heads lifting/ gasket failure, not always easy to detect early on, hence later catastrophic failure.
Obviously buying an already forged car is the answer, but only by a recognized quality builder; I've heard of plenty of forged failures too.
Subaru recommend checking oil every fill up, but who does that? I think a car that has had regular oil changes at not more than 5k miles, preferably 3k, with a fsh from all owners is far more important.
In general, the Impreza community didn't warm to the introduction of the UK hatch, and initially it was pretty sloppy and uninspiring; however, the jdm versions are very different, particularly the spec Cs/R205 ( and UK facelifted version). The revised group N bushings, specific shocks and quick rack make the jdms a very different beast. Check out the Evo mag review describing them as "borderline psychotic " All the negativity over the hatch introduction left it overlooked and under rated, but it really isn't the case once the initial weaknesses were addressed; however, that lack of popularity means they have never become that sort after.
Gambit is bang right about the Recaros; they transform the experience.
And as Joshua has mentioned in his search for a hatch, finding one that is clean underneath is hard, often due to uncaring multiple owners.
Of course I'm biased as an owner of a jdm hatch, but I would only replace my jdm with another spec C, R205 or the later S206 variations, because they are so great to drive.

NOSSY_89

Yep they were essentially Type Rs speced for the UK market, dccd removed for ABS, JDM tail lights changed to house fog light etc. They weren't mapped for UK fuel and instead had the octane booster added. Thing is it should have been good for many, many miles but like most things stated amount vs real word are two different things.

I think, and this is just my opinion these cars are no longer daily drivers when compared to the euro stuff out there. You get far more for your money. Subarus just aren't good value for money, you buy them because you're an enthusiast, not because you want to dip your toes in and try them out.

My options based on what you have said would be RB 320 or R205.

I think mileage is also going out the window with limited cars. Just look at normal Type Rs no one cares any more its a 2dr scooby.

TurboFreak

I do prefer the look of the hatch, with 4 exhaust pipes as rightly or wrongly it doesn't seem as 'boy racer' as the big single exhausts, just my opinion.

My R35 GTR and the XKR I drive now that replaced the GTR obviously have 4 exhaust pipes.

After 1 year ownership of both above cars I could sell for £5,000 more than I bought them for, so I think you can buy a quick fun car and maybe make a few quid.

But what I am after now is something rare enough to be reliable fun and hopefully increase in value over future years of ownership.

I am still looking for right car, at the moment if a low mileage black CS400 came up for sale I think it would be hard to resist.

Also I always join owners clubs for my cars, and can say with all honesty have found this one the most helpful, so thanks.

NOSSY_89

Think you have narrowed down your decision then. Looks like its going to be a hatch. There is a CS400 on sale in red for about £50k. Have a look at the R205s.