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I bought my car road mapped by Bob Rawle which when I bought it I was given the Print out of 440bhp with 315lb Torque. This was down to a Faulty AVCS sensor. Bob mapped the car and the guy I bought it off never took it back to have its second map once the issue was resolved.
I then bought the car and had it mapped by bob who then gave me extremely smiliar BHP of 442 with 415lb torque so a health increase in torque.
However, I recently took a potential buyer out in the car and he reckons it is not running 440bhp, I dont know if this is just to try bring the price down but it got me thinking. Apparently Duncan Graham said "It cant be running 440 on a TMIC". Whereas Bob who I know is very much a respected and knowledgeable guy
told me the top mount is good for up to 450.
Its now making me start to doubt the car is running the power that it is, if thats the case, many people are getting the incorrect figures? The car has been running great and I really did feel the difference after the map was tweaked but now I do not know if the 440 is accurate or not.
Attached the pictures before and after, before had high bhp but low torque and after it really did liven the car up.
Its a road map, he inputs the car weight, his and my weight in and it does the calculations through whatever program he uses. Many people use him and recommend him.
HTA71 Ball Bearing Turbo from Owen Developments 1050cc Injectors Lightened Flywheel Xtreme Clutch Afterburner Raptor 5 Inch exit with 3 inch Decat RCM Induction Kit/Trumpet Samco Red Hoses
This is the power stuff that I am aware of
Yeah I think I will just take it to surrey rolling road as I only live 10 mins from there.
Just it seems madness everyone says how great it is having him road map if the figures are not correct
Can't fault a map based off the numbers it makes. Can have a BS map & make more numbers on dyno but car wont start or be laggy or loads of other issues
I'd want a map done on dyno but completed on road in perect world. But if choosing either / or. Then for me its road map every time.
I had a HTA 71 & it made about 450 on E30 blend @ 1.9bar boost on my 2.0 sti so i'd say 410 will be a good figure for that turbo the road dyno claimed 480ish but defo wasn't
i had road dyno number of 427 read 397 dyno ponies on pump fuel @ 1.6 bar
iv had more subaru's mapped by bob than most people and have found his figures to be very accurate and iv had my car on the rollers after to check things and the numbers always matched up
have also ran 450 on a top mount without much issue
Last edited by domino46; 02 June 2021 at 05:52 AM.
I agree with Domino. My Bob Rawle map was very accurate when it went on the rollers. I also take what Duncan says and totally discard it based off of my own personal experience. Interestingly I think Duncan's Fozzy was running over 450 on a TMIC!
These cars can feel very different depending on the set up. A really laggy setup can feel brutal when the turbo comes to life and sticks all the power down in a 2k rpm range but in the real world the car will be slower than something with a much smoother delivery over a wider band, even though they have similar power. At the end of the day, this guy is telling you it's not making that power based on what?? You have the print out there to show it and Bob's software has proven to be accurate. If he doesn't like the car then he should jog on, plenty more buyers out there...
The potential buyer is just saying that based on their experience and trying to knock the price down - as said above, if they are used to a laggy setup with 440 then that will feel faster that yours even if yours would out drag it as your power comes in smoother/sooner.
The turbo is capable of the power
TMICs can run 450bhp - they will get hotter quicker on longer pulls or sat in traffic but still possible
Bobs graphs are pretty good usually, mine was within 2% when tested.
Get booked in to confirm it and let us know how you get on.
Last edited by The Hoff; 02 June 2021 at 09:43 AM.
The potential buyer is just saying that based on their experience and trying to knock the price down - as said above, if they are used to a laggy setup with 440 then that will feel faster that yours even if yours would out drag it as your power comes in smoother/sooner.
The turbo is capable of the power
TMICs can run 450bhp - they will get hotter quicker on longer pulls or sat in traffic but still possible
Bobs graphs are pretty good usually, mine was within 2% when tested.
Get booked in to confirm it and let us know how you get on.
If the car makes within 2% of claimed figures i will pay for the dyno run myself.
These BS numbers are based off a tonee of guesswork.
I agree with Domino. My Bob Rawle map was very accurate when it went on the rollers. I also take what Duncan says and totally discard it based off of my own personal experience. Interestingly I think Duncan's Fozzy was running over 450 on a TMIC!
These cars can feel very different depending on the set up. A really laggy setup can feel brutal when the turbo comes to life and sticks all the power down in a 2k rpm range but in the real world the car will be slower than something with a much smoother delivery over a wider band, even though they have similar power. At the end of the day, this guy is telling you it's not making that power based on what?? You have the print out there to show it and Bob's software has proven to be accurate. If he doesn't like the car then he should jog on, plenty more buyers out there...
What's accurate tho.
Bet it certainly didn't make what he says or more
Will be same with anyone else with his guesstimates of power
Not a single car will make what he claims or above so it's overreading nonsense
Get it on a trusted set of rollers & go from there.
Like i says if it makes 440bhp at such little boost from tht turbo on pump fuel on a stock 2.0 i will pay for run myself lolol
Yeah it is not stock it has had some power mods done to it as stated in another post. I am not here claiming what it is or is not doing I was just asking for peoples opinion. You don't have to start telling everyone how they are wrong and you are right, I am just looking for advice, not an arguement.
And yes the advice is it get it on the rollers. When I do I will post up some figures
Will be same with anyone else with his guesstimates of power
Not a single car will make what he claims or above so it's overreading nonsense
Get it on a trusted set of rollers & go from there.
Like i says if it makes 440bhp at such little boost from tht turbo on pump fuel on a stock 2.0 i will pay for run myself lolol
As you know, dyno's are all different and a lot can depend on the ambient temps, etc. You can easily see 5% difference from one to another.
Bob said mine made 457 at 1.75 bar on our run. It then made 448 at 1.6 bar on the rollers. So I'd say he may have even underestimated it tbh.
I'd suggest those figures make it fairly accurate but everyone has an opinion...
At the end of the day, even rolling roads BHP figures aren't always correct. Seen people go to one rolling road and get BHP figures. Then go to another place and there different. BHP doesn't mean much, for me it's how the power is delivered. Much prefer road map.
Originally Posted by Proudyy
Yeah I think I will just take it to surrey rolling road as I only live 10 mins from there.
Just it seems madness everyone says how great it is having him road map if the figures are not correct[/color]
Well put Adam, I love a laggy setup, my wrx import was insane at overtaking, dumped all the power down in a 2k rev range. Was abit embarrassing if you pulled off from a junction in the wrong gear and was so laggy. But worth it for that brutal power burst, non of my mates had experienced anything like it.
But to others, they wouldn't like it at all. And much prefer a well balanced rev range. No good for city driving.
Originally Posted by adam.pah
I agree with Domino. My Bob Rawle map was very accurate when it went on the rollers. I also take what Duncan says and totally discard it based off of my own personal experience. Interestingly I think Duncan's Fozzy was running over 450 on a TMIC!
These cars can feel very different depending on the set up. A really laggy setup can feel brutal when the turbo comes to life and sticks all the power down in a 2k rpm range but in the real world the car will be slower than something with a much smoother delivery over a wider band, even though they have similar power. At the end of the day, this guy is telling you it's not making that power based on what?? You have the print out there to show it and Bob's software has proven to be accurate. If he doesn't like the car then he should jog on, plenty more buyers out there...
Will be same with anyone else with his guesstimates of power
Not a single car will make what he claims or above so it's overreading nonsense
Get it on a trusted set of rollers & go from there.
Like i says if it makes 440bhp at such little boost from tht turbo on pump fuel on a stock 2.0 i will pay for run myself lolol
my cars made there power figures on the rollers a few times without any issues , multiple cars , different rollers and still got very similar figures , granted not exactly the same every time but within expectable perimeters
I like how you can guess peoples BHP just by a few internet posts and be more accurate than someone using software that they are very experienced with lol ,, you must be some kind of wizard with subarus to know exactly how every car performs without even seeing it in person or knowing its full story
you do realise that even the rolling roads need to have data input into them before your runs to make sure they read right ?? so they must be just guessing aswell then lol
Last edited by domino46; 03 June 2021 at 07:12 AM.
my cars made there power figures on the rollers a few times without any issues , multiple cars , different rollers and still got very similar figures , granted not exactly the same every time but within expectable perimeters
I like how you can guess peoples BHP just by a few internet posts and be more accurate than someone using software that they are very experienced with lol ,, you must be some kind of wizard with subarus to know exactly how every car performs without even seeing it in person or knowing its full story
you do realise that even the rolling roads need to have data input into them before your runs to make sure they read right ?? so they must be just guessing aswell then lol
Thing that matters most is the weight being input on those pretend laptop dynos
Can bet you right now that the weight being input would have been well off as cars are never the same as factory quoted
Yes every dyno is different because there are so many variables but at least most are calibrated
who calibrates a laptop dyno 🤣🤣
Absolute nonsense guesswork.
Be as well basing it off a dragy number or terminal speed on the quarter mile.
Temp, ambient pressure & how hard it's strapped down can all fudge numbers on a dyno they are by no means the perfect tool for the job but alot more common and i laugh at anyone telling me bhp based off a laptop calculation.
Can tell you right now that turbo wont be making that power at that boost on pump fuel.
For sake of 60 quid go get a real rolling road figure.
Or verify it with the exact same software he uses by taking your car to a weighbridge & use an accurate gos to ensure its done on a flat road
Anybody who uses a gps based timer knows how much a road that "looks" flat can be on a slope.
You dont need to be an expert to use Virtual Dyno software hahahah. Thats the one he uses. Its a joke.
Download it and have a go yourself. Headwind - tailwind - absolute utter horse dung numbers it spits out.
Well put Adam, I love a laggy setup, my wrx import was insane at overtaking, dumped all the power down in a 2k rev range. Was abit embarrassing if you pulled off from a junction in the wrong gear and was so laggy. But worth it for that brutal power burst, non of my mates had experienced anything like it.
But to others, they wouldn't like it at all. And much prefer a well balanced rev range. No good for city driving.
A car making 500bhp for the last 1500 rpm would get smoked by a car running 450 from 4k up
Power under the graph is what makes a fast car. Unless ur ratios are perfectly suited to your powerband
I had a sti that made power for about 2k rpm & was dead for more than half the rev range. Terrible to drive & when modern golfs make power from below 3k its borderline embarassin.
All these "fast" cars need to get some true acceleration figures to back them up because apart from any serious drag motors most of them i see run laughable times
Not 0-60 thats just a traction excersice
62-124mph or 100-200kmh is the modern performance mark.
most these imprezas will be doing it in double figures hahaha
As you know, dyno's are all different and a lot can depend on the ambient temps, etc. You can easily see 5% difference from one to another.
Bob said mine made 457 at 1.75 bar on our run. It then made 448 at 1.6 bar on the rollers. So I'd say he may have even underestimated it tbh.
I'd suggest those figures make it fairly accurate but everyone has an opinion...
Yeah it is not stock it has had some power mods done to it as stated in another post. I am not here claiming what it is or is not doing I was just asking for peoples opinion. You don't have to start telling everyone how they are wrong and you are right, I am just looking for advice, not an arguement.
And yes the advice is it get it on the rollers. When I do I will post up some figures
Go download that joke software he uses called virtual dyno & try it urself & see just how silly it is
Need weight to be exact not guessed off what oem quote & last time 2 passengers weighed themselves at gym
So many obvious reasons it will be wayy off
Temps, air pressure, tyre pressures, wind resistance & countless others
Sort of software you take your wing off & gain some BHP hahahaha
Folk act like your looking for a fight just because you disagree with them. If your willing to ask questions about something then at least be bothered enough to research things associated with it.
Virtual Dyno is a free software & the numbers being given can be manipulated just as easily as a normal dyno can.
However most dyno places you visit didn't tune your car so they have no reason to lie to you.
When your tuner says yea mate your car's fast
Its like when your mum says your the most handsome guy on earth hahahah
Independant dyno is only way to get a fair number. I don't even tell them who tuned it as they may hold a grudge or be beat mates with guy
Get a vid too soo that if it reads 500 bhp we can see it climp 2ft up the rollers haha
Folk act like your looking for a fight just because you disagree with them. If your willing to ask questions about something then at least be bothered enough to research things associated with it.
Virtual Dyno is a free software & the numbers being given can be manipulated just as easily as a normal dyno can.
However most dyno places you visit didn't tune your car so they have no reason to lie to you.
When your tuner says yea mate your car's fast
Its like when your mum says your the most handsome guy on earth hahahah
Independant dyno is only way to get a fair number. I don't even tell them who tuned it as they may hold a grudge or be beat mates with guy
Get a vid too soo that if it reads 500 bhp we can see it climp 2ft up the rollers haha
100% mate....I no you know what your talking about like lots of people on here so I’d definitely listen 👍👍
01 June 2021, 09:37 PM
Bob Rawle Road Map Figures
