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I'm considering buying an FMIC for my blobeye. A Perrin/chevron etc is overkill and too expensive.
Japspeed can run high power and are currently very cheap on sale £288. I know they can run high power, but on a hybrid td04 wrx I'd ideally like the most efficient core I can to make the most of the setup, so ideally something mid-range like an HDI one would be best. Suppliers that I've found in the UK have HDI ones for around £700 which is way more than they used to be, and I've tried all the usual breakers and sales sites.
Does anyone have a source for a good intercooler that is more efficient than the japspeed, or knows where to buy an HDI one for cheaper? They are on ebay from HongKong, but I think after taxes etc. it will be expensive and I'm worried about returns. There's one second hand on ebay that looks a bit ropey considering the price and I'm not even sure it is genuine.
Alternatively, if someone has a setup for sale or knows of one second hand, I'd be interested.
Japspeed should be ok though, just fitment is supposed to be a bit funny.
I had a japspeed on my hawk,nothing wrong with it and fitment was ok HOWEVER the clamps were ****e and were always breaking so I replaced them all with murray clamps bought from as performance and it was fine after that.
I tried mock fitting a couple of cheaper intercoolers to my car (including a Japspeed) and didn't get on with them. The main reason was the pipework quality and routing. They aren't attached to the chassis or engine anywhere other than turbo outlet and inlet manifold, meaning there was a lot of movement with the pipework rubbing and knocking against a few areas. The way they routed round the engine bay was poor too, requiring modification to a number of things to get it to fit properly, it was also a squeeze to get a decent intake fitted without fouling the pipework (mine is a later car though). In the end I went for a Process West FMIC and just swallowed the cost and I'm so glad that I did. The quality and fitment is fantastic with it attaching to the chassis and engine in a number of areas. Well worth the extra money in my eyes.
If fabricating is your thing you could easily make a cheaper kit work, just depends on how much time you want to invest in it.
Last edited by Danjo; 03 February 2021 at 11:36 AM.
Thanks for all the responses so far, I've read and considered all of them, but have added some clarification to specific replies to help get my point across a bit better:
Japspeed should be ok though, just fitment is supposed to be a bit funny.
I've seen that, my question is whether or not this intercooler can be purchased for cheaper than £700 as posts from a few years ago talk about it being much, much cheaper. The same site has Japspeed ones for very cheap.
Originally Posted by lewisdj
I have a japspeed fmic on my hawk sti, it flows 425 bhp no problem at at all and are rated for 600 bhp
I know a japspeed one will cool air down enough for those power levels, and the build quality of the cores is fine, but with a better designed core that has less pressure drop and flows better but with the same or more efficient cooling I'm likely to be able to get a bit more power and better spool out of the setup I intend to run.
The issue I'm having seems to be that the market seems to have split into cheap and fine, or very, very expensive and very good. I'm hoping for a happy medium but £700 is still very steep and a big jump from a sub £300 japspeed or similar.
Originally Posted by Adam Rooferman Rowe
Have a used hdi gt2 core here but you would need a pipe kit.
I would potentially be interested, I'll drop you a PM.
I tried mock fitting a couple of cheaper intercoolers to my car (including a Japspeed) and didn't get on with them. The main reason was the pipework quality and routing. They aren't attached to the chassis or engine anywhere other than turbo outlet and inlet manifold, meaning there was a lot of movement with the pipework rubbing and knocking against a few areas. The way they routed round the engine bay was poor too, requiring modification to a number of things to get it to fit properly, it was also a squeeze to get a decent intake fitted without fouling the pipework (mine is a later car though). In the end I went for a Process West FMIC and just swallowed the cost and I'm so glad that I did. The quality and fitment is fantastic with it attaching to the chassis and engine in a number of areas. Well worth the extra money in my eyes.
If fabricating is your thing you could easily make a cheaper kit work, just depends on how much time you want to invest in it.
That's good feedback, thank you. I am reasonably handy but would rather plug and play as it is my daily driver and I've also got a house I'm constantly renovating and a track car I built from a bare shell. On a daily I'd rather have higher quality components that just work- I don't want to keep pulling over because a pipe is knocking etc.
I guess another question for me to ask then is has anyone fitted an HDI/Hybrid intercooler lately and what was the pipework like on it?
If I'm spending £700 instead of £288 on a japspeed one the answer really needs to be fit with no issues and forget.
Last edited by RetroPug; 03 February 2021 at 12:05 PM.
I was running a Toyo intercooler on my classic and this is a direct comparison to the HKS pipework I have. Welds are much cleaner but then look at the price difference. When we all mention fitting its more so making sure alignment is correct before tightening up everything, this is a bit more involved but thought it was easy enough as I was running an induction kit. Pipes on most kits will need some sort of finish whether its powder coat or something else.
My concern is the flow through the core- It is all well and good saying that the Japspeed kits are fine, but they're now going through the process of replacing all their intercoolers with ones with redesigned cores with vanes in them to direct air more uniformly across the core. The GC8 version of this is for sale already, the newage one is planned in a couple of months.
I am planning to run an Andy Forrest hybrid TD04, so I don't need "fine", I need something that is efficient but also well designed in terms of flow otherwise my throttle response will be poor.
"It works at this BHP" is too simplistic. Any huge core that's in airflow will cool air enough for that.
My concern is the flow through the core- It is all well and good saying that the Japspeed kits are fine, but they're now going through the process of replacing all their intercoolers with ones with redesigned cores with vanes in them to direct air more uniformly across the core. The GC8 version of this is for sale already, the newage one is planned in a couple of months.
I am planning to run an Andy Forrest hybrid TD04, so I don't need "fine", I need something that is efficient but also well designed in terms of flow otherwise my throttle response will be poor.
"It works at this BHP" is too simplistic. Any huge core that's in airflow will cool air enough for that.
You just said it yourself, but the huge core gets the job done, and for the price thats exactly why people buy it. Running 300 or 500bhp it makes no difference the core does the job. If you want efficiency then get your wallet out lol. Also the stock topmount meets your requirements so why change it or if you want the extra head room go for a STI top mount if you have something else.
In terms of drive ability thats down to how the car is mapped. If your car is feeling laggy with a front mount then its down to the map. Speaking from experience.
You just said it yourself, but the huge core gets the job done, and for the price thats exactly why people buy it. Running 300 or 500bhp it makes no difference the core does the job. If you want efficiency then get your wallet out lol. Also the stock topmount meets your requirements so why change it or if you want the extra head room go for a STI top mount if you have something else.
In terms of drive ability thats down to how the car is mapped. If your car is feeling laggy with a front mount then its down to the map. Speaking from experience.
I am trying to get my wallet out- I've started a thread on where to buy a good mid-range intercooler that has had more design put into it than a Japspeed at £288 but doesn't cost £1600 like a Perrin does, and also to discuss their performance and design at various price points.
Imagine a big, mostly solid block of aluminium with spaghetti-like voids in it for an intercooler- like the tunnels in an ants nest. If the air is travelling through this very obviously restrictive block, it will spend a long time in there and get as cold as the aluminium, which will be cold. However, throttle response will be bad and the engine won't rev up as quickly as it will struggle to pull in enough air. You have to have some restriction to airflow to achieve a reasonable amount of cooling, so the cooling effect is not the only concern- the flow through the system is also important- it is a tradeoff. The mapping is not relevant to how restrictive the intake tract is. So, a restrictive core (bare in mind they're tften universal and just a chosen size that easily fits) and pipework might offer decent cooling, decent power and response, but a better designed system might offer similar cooling with less restriction, or more cooling with the same restriction.
As I am planning on a hybrid TD04, I probably need decent cooling and low restriction. I'm considering a FMIC because of heatsoak, and because now that I've spent £200 on an STI scoop and undertray, I'll need another £200 for an STI topmount if I can even find one which is rapidly approaching the budget of a midrange FMIC setup. Yes, a Japspeed might work, but if I can get another 5-10hp or way better response out of a different system for a reasonable amount more but not £1600 then I'd love to hear it, or a few more hp over an STI topmount for a similar budget perhaps, with the added benefit of little heatsoak.
So, some feedback on what FMIC setups are available and what kind of performance they offer would be great. For example, are Mishimoto's intercooler setups actually well-designed in terms of their performance and flow, or are they relatively cheap products sold at a high margin that seem good because they cost a lot? Has anyone switched intercooler setups and gained/lost power?
I am trying to get my wallet out- I've started a thread on where to buy a good mid-range intercooler that has had more design put into it than a Japspeed at £288 but doesn't cost £1600 like a Perrin does, and also to discuss their performance and design at various price points.
Imagine a big, mostly solid block of aluminium with spaghetti-like voids in it for an intercooler- like the tunnels in an ants nest. If the air is travelling through this very obviously restrictive block, it will spend a long time in there and get as cold as the aluminium, which will be cold. However, throttle response will be bad and the engine won't rev up as quickly as it will struggle to pull in enough air. You have to have some restriction to airflow to achieve a reasonable amount of cooling, so the cooling effect is not the only concern- the flow through the system is also important- it is a tradeoff. The mapping is not relevant to how restrictive the intake tract is. So, a restrictive core (bare in mind they're tften universal and just a chosen size that easily fits) and pipework might offer decent cooling, decent power and response, but a better designed system might offer similar cooling with less restriction, or more cooling with the same restriction.
As I am planning on a hybrid TD04, I probably need decent cooling and low restriction. I'm considering a FMIC because of heatsoak, and because now that I've spent £200 on an STI scoop and undertray, I'll need another £200 for an STI topmount if I can even find one which is rapidly approaching the budget of a midrange FMIC setup. Yes, a Japspeed might work, but if I can get another 5-10hp or way better response out of a different system for a reasonable amount more but not £1600 then I'd love to hear it, or a few more hp over an STI topmount for a similar budget perhaps, with the added benefit of little heatsoak.
So, some feedback on what FMIC setups are available and what kind of performance they offer would be great. For example, are Mishimoto's intercooler setups actually well-designed in terms of their performance and flow, or are they relatively cheap products sold at a high margin that seem good because they cost a lot? Has anyone switched intercooler setups and gained/lost power?
Ive just received my mishimoto FMIC and first impressions are that it is a quality item that’s backed up by a lifetime warranty.
Seems really well thought out even comes with relocation brackets to get everything out of the way, a new coolant overflow reservoir and two silicone couplers which are used depending on what turbo you have installed.
the kit runs straight out of the turbo rather than into a 90 degree elbow not sure what difference that makes.(the Perrin and the japspeed both have this)
I’ll see what difference it makes when it goes back for a new map.
Ive just received my mishimoto FMIC and first impressions are that it is a quality item that’s backed up by a lifetime warranty.
Seems really well thought out even comes with relocation brackets to get everything out of the way, a new coolant overflow reservoir and two silicone couplers which are used depending on what turbo you have installed.
the kit runs straight out of the turbo rather than into a 90 degree elbow not sure what difference that makes.(the Perrin and the japspeed both have this)
I’ll see what difference it makes when it goes back for a new map.
Pic of mine fitted to show pipe work route
fairly easy to fit, all i had to alter was slightly enlarge hole where it goes through inner wing and a small area of metal removed where it comes into bottom of engine bay on passenger side. It will fit without any alterations but i wanted a bit of clearance so the pipes couldn't rub on any thing.
Thank you for all the information. I think for now I'm going to stay with a top mount, mainly as the car is my daily driver and I'm not running a big turbo. I'd rather have fewer custom parts etc. on it that can fail.
I might revisit this in the future if I upgrade further or it becomes a weekend toy.
STI topmounts are proving quite difficult to get hold of at the moment though!
Last edited by RetroPug; 12 February 2021 at 12:23 PM.
Thank you for all the information. I think for now I'm going to stay with a top mount, mainly as the car is my daily driver and I'm not running a big turbo. I'd rather have fewer custom parts etc. on it that can fail.
I might revisit this in the future if I upgrade further or it becomes a weekend toy.
STI topmounts are proving quite difficult to get hold of at the moment though!
Have you asked mattyB@mbdevelopments in the traders section?
Just an idea, could you run a water/meth injection kit to lower intake temp and still run the standard tmic?
Kits can be had for a reasonable price.
I think @lockheed runs a water/meth kit so may be able to shed some light on it if that's a route you want to consider...
@RetroPug sorry can't recall your proper name but you asked about an HDi and I do have a lead as to UK stock at better costs than you mentioned at the time but maybe its no longer of use.........??
Have you asked mattyB@mbdevelopments in the traders section?
Of course. They sell as they come in and it's a case of seeing a new breaker being put up pretty much when it happens. There's the odd hawkeye one for sale but if I am sticking with a TMIC I'd prefer a larger blobeye one as I already have a blobeye STI scoop & undertray.
Originally Posted by adam.pah
Just an idea, could you run a water/meth injection kit to lower intake temp and still run the standard tmic?
Kits can be had for a reasonable price.
I think @lockheed runs a water/meth kit so may be able to shed some light on it if that's a route you want to consider...
Honestly, on a daily driver I really don't- I just don't think it is worth the cost, hassle and additional failure points etc. to run a hybrid td04 on a WRX.
If I do run a top mount I'll get a turbo blanket and just accept that sat in traffic it warms up, and that shielding it from heat sources such as the turbo will slow that down a fair bit.
I have also spoken to Alyn about the HDI ones. There are just too many bad experiences with mishimoto online for me to ignore quite frankly.
02 February 2021, 06:57 PM
FMIC Sourcing
