'Braking' News!
01 February 2021, 03:50 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
'Braking' News!
We wish to gain the thoughts of forum users with regards to any EBC Brakes products you have used. Whether the feedback is positive or negative, We want to hear from you.... No sales or advertising in the forums, just assistance.
01 February 2021, 05:03 PM
#5
As a small British firm you deserve support. It's great to see you active on social media and sponsoring motorsport. However you have a job to do to change the perceptions of your brand among experienced drivers, few of whom consider EBC to be a serious option. Among this group it is more likely that EBC will be dismissed as a brand for beginners and people who don't know better.
I've had mixed results myself with EBC products: a set of Green pads which worked ok on a Porsche, Reds which again were "ok" on a BMW and a set of Yellows on a hawkeye which were diabolical, absolutely appalling. I've not touched EBC products since and will not recommend them to others.
There are lots of people like me out there. I know that EBC regularly change their compounds. The first task is to ensure the product is up to scratch. The harder job is to convince people like me. that EBC deserves recognition in a very competitive market full of extremely good brands.
I've had mixed results myself with EBC products: a set of Green pads which worked ok on a Porsche, Reds which again were "ok" on a BMW and a set of Yellows on a hawkeye which were diabolical, absolutely appalling. I've not touched EBC products since and will not recommend them to others.
There are lots of people like me out there. I know that EBC regularly change their compounds. The first task is to ensure the product is up to scratch. The harder job is to convince people like me. that EBC deserves recognition in a very competitive market full of extremely good brands.
The following 3 users liked this post by plenty:
01 February 2021, 08:25 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Only experiance i have had with EBC brakes was someone coming flying past narrowly missing me and a ditch as we slowed down to take a turn after thier brakes cooked, whether they were the right compound for the application i don;t know.
But as above, i'm going to be looking a fast road setup brmebo fitment for a 500bhp hawk and afraid EBC isn't on the possible option list.
But as above, i'm going to be looking a fast road setup brmebo fitment for a 500bhp hawk and afraid EBC isn't on the possible option list.
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02 February 2021, 10:28 AM
#8
Same here I'm afraid, I had the Orange pads in my K sport BBK conversion front and rear on my Spec C. Never got on with the pads at all on the road, you just never felt confident using them at all.
On track they were even worse, after just 1-2 laps the brake judder from them was unbearable.
Just my honest experience of them.
On track they were even worse, after just 1-2 laps the brake judder from them was unbearable.
Just my honest experience of them.
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02 February 2021, 01:47 PM
#9
The OP is doing the same on every car and bike forum,
Shame you have never taken the feedback you ask for and sort your products,
The fact you are being slated on all the forums I have seen you on so far should be enough to tell you that your products arent up to the job.
Shame you have never taken the feedback you ask for and sort your products,
The fact you are being slated on all the forums I have seen you on so far should be enough to tell you that your products arent up to the job.
02 February 2021, 04:40 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
I've inherited a set of yellow stuff pads on a car I bought, and the pads were fine for fast road, good feel, consistent and didn't fade when pushing. Now I can't comment on long term or track use but so far they're doing a good job and I'll keep them.
Based on feedback from people on here, many of which have way more experience than me, I wouldn't consider ebc for my Impreza.
Based on feedback from people on here, many of which have way more experience than me, I wouldn't consider ebc for my Impreza.
The following 2 users liked this post by scoobaholic:
02 February 2021, 05:07 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
I remember years ago the local push bike shop had a whole display of EBC brake pads. In the back workshop that nobody saw of course because nobody was interested in them even with a picture of the world champion on the packaging. Can't say I'd consider EBC's for any car, performance or otherwise.
02 February 2021, 05:10 PM
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Without knowing the exact details of the product and application, I cannot comment on this one but thanks for taking the time to reply.
02 February 2021, 05:11 PM
#13
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Thanks for your comments, It is always good to hear comments, good or bad, but with ever changing products hopefully We can at least try to change some opinions.
02 February 2021, 05:14 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
An honest opinion is all We can ask for, good or bad. Our products are regularly changing and improving and hopefully if you ever wanted to try them again, We could arrange this. Thanks for your comments anyway.
02 February 2021, 05:21 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Hi, Thanks for taking the time to provide some valuable and relevant feedback, it is always good to receive genuine comments, good or bad. We are constantly updating our products and compounds and If you would be interested in trying some of our newer products, drop us an email at forumadministrator@ebcbrakesuk.com
02 February 2021, 05:22 PM
#17
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
As a small British firm you deserve support. It's great to see you active on social media and sponsoring motorsport. However you have a job to do to change the perceptions of your brand among experienced drivers, few of whom consider EBC to be a serious option. Among this group it is more likely that EBC will be dismissed as a brand for beginners and people who don't know better.
I've had mixed results myself with EBC products: a set of Green pads which worked ok on a Porsche, Reds which again were "ok" on a BMW and a set of Yellows on a hawkeye which were diabolical, absolutely appalling. I've not touched EBC products since and will not recommend them to others.
There are lots of people like me out there. I know that EBC regularly change their compounds. The first task is to ensure the product is up to scratch. The harder job is to convince people like me. that EBC deserves recognition in a very competitive market full of extremely good brands.
I've had mixed results myself with EBC products: a set of Green pads which worked ok on a Porsche, Reds which again were "ok" on a BMW and a set of Yellows on a hawkeye which were diabolical, absolutely appalling. I've not touched EBC products since and will not recommend them to others.
There are lots of people like me out there. I know that EBC regularly change their compounds. The first task is to ensure the product is up to scratch. The harder job is to convince people like me. that EBC deserves recognition in a very competitive market full of extremely good brands.
02 February 2021, 07:17 PM
#18
I have a lot of sympathy for what you must have to deal with in your job. Being on the receiving end of grief online is no fun.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
02 February 2021, 07:22 PM
#19
Scooby Regular
I’m sure I remember ebc from the old days. Maybe they just need to catch up as all the reviews look awful.
02 February 2021, 08:04 PM
#20
Scooby Regular
I remember EBC being one of the companies that actually did off the shelf brake pads for my Tarox calipers. Contacted them to find out more information and response was very quick. Looking at reviews it seems Good, Bad, Good. That batch seems to have really done damage to the reputation but on the new stuff reviews seem to be very positive. I went a different direction with my brake set up so can't comment on how good they are now.
It might be worth putting in an ad campaign acknowledging the issues and that you have changed. Don't get me wrong there are people putting out positive reviews but there are a much larger audience who won't touch the pads at all due to past experience. You can see from the comments here alone. Having the colour coordination for different pads is a really good idea, track, fast road etc.
It might be worth putting in an ad campaign acknowledging the issues and that you have changed. Don't get me wrong there are people putting out positive reviews but there are a much larger audience who won't touch the pads at all due to past experience. You can see from the comments here alone. Having the colour coordination for different pads is a really good idea, track, fast road etc.
03 February 2021, 08:14 AM
#22
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I have a lot of sympathy for what you must have to deal with in your job. Being on the receiving end of grief online is no fun.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
03 February 2021, 08:15 AM
#23
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
03 February 2021, 08:18 AM
#24
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I remember EBC being one of the companies that actually did off the shelf brake pads for my Tarox calipers. Contacted them to find out more information and response was very quick. Looking at reviews it seems Good, Bad, Good. That batch seems to have really done damage to the reputation but on the new stuff reviews seem to be very positive. I went a different direction with my brake set up so can't comment on how good they are now.
It might be worth putting in an ad campaign acknowledging the issues and that you have changed. Don't get me wrong there are people putting out positive reviews but there are a much larger audience who won't touch the pads at all due to past experience. You can see from the comments here alone. Having the colour coordination for different pads is a really good idea, track, fast road etc.
It might be worth putting in an ad campaign acknowledging the issues and that you have changed. Don't get me wrong there are people putting out positive reviews but there are a much larger audience who won't touch the pads at all due to past experience. You can see from the comments here alone. Having the colour coordination for different pads is a really good idea, track, fast road etc.
03 February 2021, 08:22 AM
#25
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I have a lot of sympathy for what you must have to deal with in your job. Being on the receiving end of grief online is no fun.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
The solution is actually quite simple. If the products are good enough, then the customers and the positive word of mouth will come. It will take longer for EBC as you must first turn around perceptions of a brand that are unfortunately tainted by earlier products that weren’t up to scratch. But you will get there as long as you make good products.
.We are now producing improved products and We appreciate there were 'bumps in the road' some years ago and this is why We are now hoping to be more active on forums and see if We can change these opinions, from genuine EBC users.
03 February 2021, 08:23 AM
#26
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
03 February 2021, 12:25 PM
#27
Scooby Regular
How often have the compounds been changed and is there an easy way to differentiate before purchase? You can release new "better" compounds all the time but if sellers are still selling the bad compounds to people then this won't be helping your case for improvement. In my opinion the better compounds should be very easily identifiable for example having the year in the name ie Yellowstuff2020. At the moment I could place an order for Yellowstuff pads and get anything.
03 February 2021, 01:30 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Hi, Thanks for your message. The compound is constantly being updated and I have passed your date comments onto the relevant team for their perusal. Our stock turnover should not allow old compound stock to be sent out for popular vehicles and if you always order direct from us, this should alleviate any such issue.
03 February 2021, 02:45 PM
#29
Scooby Regular
I'm not sure all this talk of 'constantly updating' pad compounds really helps. The impression I get with EBC is that there's no clear path of development or intention. This is an issue because every new pad is labelled 'best ever' or 'this is our track pad' followed by the exact same story/pitch the next time a new pad comes out. The first time I used EBC was Red Stuff (the 'track' pad at the time) in a pair of AP 5200 calipers on my Vectra to replace the worn out DS2500's back in c2005. They lasted very little time before I put new DS2500's back in. Now these are a solid, consistent and good all round pad if ever there was one and have continued to be so over the last 15 years of using them on and off.
Move forward to about 2014 and I install some Bluestuff NDX pads in the OEM Subaru 4 pots and matched them in the rear. They were poor cold, very good once they had temperature in them and then fell off a rather scary performance cliff when they got too hot after about ten minutes of hard road driving (some track pad). I was given them for very little cash by a friend which is what swayed me, but they weren't on the car for long before I went with the APs.
I fitted a set of AP brakes with a set of half worn DS2500 pads which were solid and high performing, but with budget a definite consideration at the time I got hold of some Mintex M1166 pads to replace them. I loved these things but they delaminated from the backing plate after 6 months and, budget still an issue, settled on the new at the time Orangestuff pads as they could be had for less than £70 which was an absolute bargain. I liked these and had them matched with the Bluestuff at the back. They worked well, gave reasonable cold bite, worked well hot and didn't fall off a cliff as the Bluestuff had done (I'm guessing caliper and disc size did help here). These lasted 30k miles so when the time came to replace them along with discs all round I was happy to replace them with the same despite the pads being much more expensive at c£120 for the fronts and c£90 for the rear, and therefore much closer in price to some of the alternatives such as the DS2500. And here's the rub (and my issue with constantly evolving pad compounds); these ones aren't nearly as good as the originals. They don't have the same cold bite and they fall off the cliff way more quickly. Not dramatically like the Blues but they just fade away much more rapidly than those original pads. Where before I would have had no hesitation in recommending the Orange Stuff I couldn't now, partly because their performance isn't up to scratch, even more so given the price increase, but also the total lack of consistency between batches. I wish now I had gone for DS2500 and paid the extra as there was very little in it, or one of the alternatives as there are many around a similar price point of £250-300 a set.
This is my impression...
Red Stuff - how many iterations of this have there been? This was originally the performance compound.
Yellowstuff - 'our new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...
Bluestuff - 'our new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound. It's now called BS NDX and is our 'new, new, new pad.
Orangestuff - 'our new, new, new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...see where I'm going with this? Every new pad is sold as a track pad which somewhat undermines that credential (what does it even mean anyway) which is why I think the below would be useful.
Of course there's now RP-1 and RP-X in the mix too too. What I find frustrating with EBC products (aside from the inconsistent performance between batches of the same product, whether by design or process inconsistency) is that there is very little clear data available on each of the pads, and that the range is rather bewilderingly and unnecessarily complicated. There are no graphs of friction against temperature, or charts which grade each pad as 1-10 against benchmark areas such as 'cold', 'bite', 'fade resistance' etc. This would help users to actually identify the pad most suitable for their use case, assuming of course the claimed performance is consistent batch to batch and stands up to the claims. Data allows people to make informed choices and compare product to product. Despite my issues I do also suspect that some people probably just end up with the wrong pads because of a lack of information on which to base their decisions. Most of the blurb under each of the pad compound types is pretty meaningless and could be used interchangeably across the range.
Hopefully this is of use and actually gives something meaningful for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
Cheers.
Move forward to about 2014 and I install some Bluestuff NDX pads in the OEM Subaru 4 pots and matched them in the rear. They were poor cold, very good once they had temperature in them and then fell off a rather scary performance cliff when they got too hot after about ten minutes of hard road driving (some track pad). I was given them for very little cash by a friend which is what swayed me, but they weren't on the car for long before I went with the APs.
I fitted a set of AP brakes with a set of half worn DS2500 pads which were solid and high performing, but with budget a definite consideration at the time I got hold of some Mintex M1166 pads to replace them. I loved these things but they delaminated from the backing plate after 6 months and, budget still an issue, settled on the new at the time Orangestuff pads as they could be had for less than £70 which was an absolute bargain. I liked these and had them matched with the Bluestuff at the back. They worked well, gave reasonable cold bite, worked well hot and didn't fall off a cliff as the Bluestuff had done (I'm guessing caliper and disc size did help here). These lasted 30k miles so when the time came to replace them along with discs all round I was happy to replace them with the same despite the pads being much more expensive at c£120 for the fronts and c£90 for the rear, and therefore much closer in price to some of the alternatives such as the DS2500. And here's the rub (and my issue with constantly evolving pad compounds); these ones aren't nearly as good as the originals. They don't have the same cold bite and they fall off the cliff way more quickly. Not dramatically like the Blues but they just fade away much more rapidly than those original pads. Where before I would have had no hesitation in recommending the Orange Stuff I couldn't now, partly because their performance isn't up to scratch, even more so given the price increase, but also the total lack of consistency between batches. I wish now I had gone for DS2500 and paid the extra as there was very little in it, or one of the alternatives as there are many around a similar price point of £250-300 a set.
This is my impression...
Red Stuff - how many iterations of this have there been? This was originally the performance compound.
Yellowstuff - 'our new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...
Bluestuff - 'our new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound. It's now called BS NDX and is our 'new, new, new pad.
Orangestuff - 'our new, new, new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...see where I'm going with this? Every new pad is sold as a track pad which somewhat undermines that credential (what does it even mean anyway) which is why I think the below would be useful.
Of course there's now RP-1 and RP-X in the mix too too. What I find frustrating with EBC products (aside from the inconsistent performance between batches of the same product, whether by design or process inconsistency) is that there is very little clear data available on each of the pads, and that the range is rather bewilderingly and unnecessarily complicated. There are no graphs of friction against temperature, or charts which grade each pad as 1-10 against benchmark areas such as 'cold', 'bite', 'fade resistance' etc. This would help users to actually identify the pad most suitable for their use case, assuming of course the claimed performance is consistent batch to batch and stands up to the claims. Data allows people to make informed choices and compare product to product. Despite my issues I do also suspect that some people probably just end up with the wrong pads because of a lack of information on which to base their decisions. Most of the blurb under each of the pad compound types is pretty meaningless and could be used interchangeably across the range.
Hopefully this is of use and actually gives something meaningful for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
Cheers.
The following 2 users liked this post by ST-X:
03 February 2021, 03:34 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I'm not sure all this talk of 'constantly updating' pad compounds really helps. The impression I get with EBC is that there's no clear path of development or intention. This is an issue because every new pad is labelled 'best ever' or 'this is our track pad' followed by the exact same story/pitch the next time a new pad comes out. The first time I used EBC was Red Stuff (the 'track' pad at the time) in a pair of AP 5200 calipers on my Vectra to replace the worn out DS2500's back in c2005. They lasted very little time before I put new DS2500's back in. Now these are a solid, consistent and good all round pad if ever there was one and have continued to be so over the last 15 years of using them on and off.
Move forward to about 2014 and I install some Bluestuff NDX pads in the OEM Subaru 4 pots and matched them in the rear. They were poor cold, very good once they had temperature in them and then fell off a rather scary performance cliff when they got too hot after about ten minutes of hard road driving (some track pad). I was given them for very little cash by a friend which is what swayed me, but they weren't on the car for long before I went with the APs.
I fitted a set of AP brakes with a set of half worn DS2500 pads which were solid and high performing, but with budget a definite consideration at the time I got hold of some Mintex M1166 pads to replace them. I loved these things but they delaminated from the backing plate after 6 months and, budget still an issue, settled on the new at the time Orangestuff pads as they could be had for less than £70 which was an absolute bargain. I liked these and had them matched with the Bluestuff at the back. They worked well, gave reasonable cold bite, worked well hot and didn't fall off a cliff as the Bluestuff had done (I'm guessing caliper and disc size did help here). These lasted 30k miles so when the time came to replace them along with discs all round I was happy to replace them with the same despite the pads being much more expensive at c£120 for the fronts and c£90 for the rear, and therefore much closer in price to some of the alternatives such as the DS2500. And here's the rub (and my issue with constantly evolving pad compounds); these ones aren't nearly as good as the originals. They don't have the same cold bite and they fall off the cliff way more quickly. Not dramatically like the Blues but they just fade away much more rapidly than those original pads. Where before I would have had no hesitation in recommending the Orange Stuff I couldn't now, partly because their performance isn't up to scratch, even more so given the price increase, but also the total lack of consistency between batches. I wish now I had gone for DS2500 and paid the extra as there was very little in it, or one of the alternatives as there are many around a similar price point of £250-300 a set.
This is my impression...
Red Stuff - how many iterations of this have there been? This was originally the performance compound.
Yellowstuff - 'our new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...
Bluestuff - 'our new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound. It's now called BS NDX and is our 'new, new, new pad.
Orangestuff - 'our new, new, new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...see where I'm going with this? Every new pad is sold as a track pad which somewhat undermines that credential (what does it even mean anyway) which is why I think the below would be useful.
Of course there's now RP-1 and RP-X in the mix too too. What I find frustrating with EBC products (aside from the inconsistent performance between batches of the same product, whether by design or process inconsistency) is that there is very little clear data available on each of the pads, and that the range is rather bewilderingly and unnecessarily complicated. There are no graphs of friction against temperature, or charts which grade each pad as 1-10 against benchmark areas such as 'cold', 'bite', 'fade resistance' etc. This would help users to actually identify the pad most suitable for their use case, assuming of course the claimed performance is consistent batch to batch and stands up to the claims. Data allows people to make informed choices and compare product to product. Despite my issues I do also suspect that some people probably just end up with the wrong pads because of a lack of information on which to base their decisions. Most of the blurb under each of the pad compound types is pretty meaningless and could be used interchangeably across the range.
Hopefully this is of use and actually gives something meaningful for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
Cheers.
Move forward to about 2014 and I install some Bluestuff NDX pads in the OEM Subaru 4 pots and matched them in the rear. They were poor cold, very good once they had temperature in them and then fell off a rather scary performance cliff when they got too hot after about ten minutes of hard road driving (some track pad). I was given them for very little cash by a friend which is what swayed me, but they weren't on the car for long before I went with the APs.
I fitted a set of AP brakes with a set of half worn DS2500 pads which were solid and high performing, but with budget a definite consideration at the time I got hold of some Mintex M1166 pads to replace them. I loved these things but they delaminated from the backing plate after 6 months and, budget still an issue, settled on the new at the time Orangestuff pads as they could be had for less than £70 which was an absolute bargain. I liked these and had them matched with the Bluestuff at the back. They worked well, gave reasonable cold bite, worked well hot and didn't fall off a cliff as the Bluestuff had done (I'm guessing caliper and disc size did help here). These lasted 30k miles so when the time came to replace them along with discs all round I was happy to replace them with the same despite the pads being much more expensive at c£120 for the fronts and c£90 for the rear, and therefore much closer in price to some of the alternatives such as the DS2500. And here's the rub (and my issue with constantly evolving pad compounds); these ones aren't nearly as good as the originals. They don't have the same cold bite and they fall off the cliff way more quickly. Not dramatically like the Blues but they just fade away much more rapidly than those original pads. Where before I would have had no hesitation in recommending the Orange Stuff I couldn't now, partly because their performance isn't up to scratch, even more so given the price increase, but also the total lack of consistency between batches. I wish now I had gone for DS2500 and paid the extra as there was very little in it, or one of the alternatives as there are many around a similar price point of £250-300 a set.
This is my impression...
Red Stuff - how many iterations of this have there been? This was originally the performance compound.
Yellowstuff - 'our new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...
Bluestuff - 'our new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound. It's now called BS NDX and is our 'new, new, new pad.
Orangestuff - 'our new, new, new, new track pad'. Wait, we've updated the compound...see where I'm going with this? Every new pad is sold as a track pad which somewhat undermines that credential (what does it even mean anyway) which is why I think the below would be useful.
Of course there's now RP-1 and RP-X in the mix too too. What I find frustrating with EBC products (aside from the inconsistent performance between batches of the same product, whether by design or process inconsistency) is that there is very little clear data available on each of the pads, and that the range is rather bewilderingly and unnecessarily complicated. There are no graphs of friction against temperature, or charts which grade each pad as 1-10 against benchmark areas such as 'cold', 'bite', 'fade resistance' etc. This would help users to actually identify the pad most suitable for their use case, assuming of course the claimed performance is consistent batch to batch and stands up to the claims. Data allows people to make informed choices and compare product to product. Despite my issues I do also suspect that some people probably just end up with the wrong pads because of a lack of information on which to base their decisions. Most of the blurb under each of the pad compound types is pretty meaningless and could be used interchangeably across the range.
Hopefully this is of use and actually gives something meaningful for you. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss further.
Cheers.