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Ok so after removing the engine I started to disassemble starting by looking in the sump obviously and what a mess.
The big ends had gone, taking a conrod with it and also snapping the rear of the piston. In the engine I found various metal, oil seal ring from piston, the conrod bent and in bits and also various damage to the block, the total extent is unknown yet.
i even had to bend the plate in the sump to remove it as the conrod had battered it. Pics attached.
so basically I bought this car as a project know OMG that it was probably big ends but not this bad.
my questions if anyone can help are
from the pics is it even possible to save this cdb
if I don’t save it what is the most viable option
what other damaged is likely caused ( crank looks scored)
if I can save it what would you recommend I do to the block.
i have decided I really want to save this car as it looks like it has been abused and I want to take it back to standard spec so no big power just not sure if it’s possible with this engine with regards to cost? Would love to be able to use the original engine with obviously new internals.
can the powers that be advise? Surely there have been worse than this?
also I think the piston is stuck in the cylinder
Last edited by Gills; 05 September 2019 at 11:40 PM.
I personally would source another engine and get it rebuilt , the amount of damage makes me think it was abused and not looked after so what other damage has been done , my crank on one had a very light scoring was polished on another the bottom end had recently gone/started to go and was slightly rattling so new crank put in
block will need to be properly measured and assessed to find out if its salvageable, just a quick look is unlikely to give you an answer other than 'yeah its scrap mate' if the damage is really bad.
It’s done a good job of it!
Like been said you need to split block and see what cylinder liners are like. I wouldn’t hold much hop out for them tho! Have heads got Away with out being damaged?
I thought you said it only knocked on let off ? Lol
Remember what Hustlersalvage said in your previous thread chap, it's a super fandango fully forged strongest engine in the world so just replace a couple of bearings, a new rod and then bolt it back together. Good for 400 all day long.
Yes I know it’s hard to tell from pics I’m going to crack block open ASAP to see the extent of damage.
is there any tolerance on how bad the liners can be so they can be bored? Also would need different size pistons I’m presuming?
The engine did only only tap on Rev down that’s why I can’t work it out it must have been just the loose metal hitting as the conrod was loose inside I just pulled it out.
if it is salvageable what would I need to do with regards to crank and pistons, obviously I would need conrods aswell.
the heads seem to be fine but will know more when I remove them, what do I look for on the heads?
can we we just not be a bit civil, I’m genuinely asking for advice and help, I know everyone has there own experiences and opinions which is fine. At the end of the day that’s what we all have the discussions for if we all said the same thing then there would be no need for forums.
any recommendations on where to go once all stripped and the extent of damage is know would be much appreciated
Advice from me would be strip it all the way down lay it out on table and work out what’s screwed unfortunately crank has gone which is dearest part. Don’t go for a skimmed one go for new or un ground used.
Check the heads make sure it hasn’t picked up any debris and hit them.
If heads are ok it’ll save you some money hopefully block might be ok although there’s a very small chance. CDBs are quite expensive but it is genuinly the only engine I’d put back in it just so the car is original. If not explore other options with it which I can’t really comment on as past the classic I’m back to basics on some of the newer models.
Not going to pull your thread down mate for some one who had to put a thread up cause his wipers didn’t work ... LOL but will comment on how to rebuild a engine.... that he’s never done or when presented with facts runs back to his little hole to try peddle crap on here.
Wont bite anymore promise .... probably
Last edited by Hustlersalvage; 06 September 2019 at 06:50 PM.
some damage will be obvious , some bits will be worn out and much more difficult to tell , you could take it to a good engine builder and see what they say , my concern was to bend a con rod is pretty bad , they say after a nuclear war only con rods and **** roaches would be left lol
Lol yeah I heard they were pretty indestructible, trying to build a picture of what the plan would be worst case if I can salvage the block and I keep seeing 92.5mm pistons and 93mm.
would this mean that I would get the cylinders bored to suit? I’m also confused with the whole striker thing can anyone explain this to me just so I can get my head around it i.e. if the pistons are slightly bigger is that a striker essentially?
Deoendant on if and how the cylinder is damaged it might be possible to bore the cylinder by a few mm, increasing its capacity hence the larger piston diameter.
as long as any damage can be taken by the rebore then your good to go, send it get it re bored by the pistons and kit, everything is going to need replacing so go the full shaaabang on it and put it all back together exactly the same way you would anyway.
It is a good upgrade and is highly rated
but you need to get that engine in bits in the back garden and jet washed n cleaned properly to ckecknit for cracks. As said a good engineers will do that for you anyway but I’d do it my self as I like to know now lol.
70 to 80 k miles upwards , if it’s needs a rebuild it’s well worth getting a re bore done as the bores will be worn and prone to not being straight , if you mean stroker and not striker , it’s a combination of different pistons and con rods plus maybe even crank , it basically means piston have more movement up and down in the bore so in effect you get bigger cc , a stroker on a 2 litre can give you from memory between 2.1 to 2.3 ? litres , ive heard they are quite a good mod on a 2 litre , as the strength on a 2 litre engine but the capacity heading towards a 2.5 , and a 2.5 in the same tune as a 2 litre has a lot more foot pound than a 2 litre , hope that makes sense
Is the engine under any sort of warranty ? Long shot I know.
Have the gaskets you’ve removed looked old?
it is entirely possible to blow a engine in 12000 mile by way I’d just be really annoyed if I paid money people want for a rebuild and it blew on me!
I think fact that it’s been run (still can’t work out how that engine was running) has made it a whole lot worse then it probably was too start!
Get it stripped mate mate can’t remember if top of my head which order you so head bolts in and make sure you’ve got some one stood on it or stood on stand when your doing them! When heads are off it’s a lot easier to handle!
Is the engine under any sort of warranty ? Long shot I know.
Have the gaskets you’ve removed looked old?
it is entirely possible to blow a engine in 12000 mile by way I’d just be really annoyed if I paid money people want for a rebuild and it blew on me!
I think fact that it’s been run (still can’t work out how that engine was running) has made it a whole lot worse then it probably was too start!
Get it stripped mate mate can’t remember if top of my head which order you so head bolts in and make sure you’ve got some one stood on it or stood on stand when your doing them! When heads are off it’s a lot easier to handle!
To be honest it has all come apart really easy even the turbo bolts, you can tell it hasn’t been together long.
i think it was built by an owner in their workshop, I have lots of photos Etc of the build, but I did notice that when the oil pump was re fitted it has also been sprayed silver with the block so I don’t think it’s uprated 12mm.
i do have a video but it won’t let me upload here, it started ok and was a little lumpy, very smokey though, the only noise was mostly a tap on Rev down this is why I can’t work out how there is so much damage but wasn’t too bad running?
All exhaust gaskets look nearly new, inlet came off ok etc.
i can send a video over WhatsApp if anyone is curious ? Pm me and will do so.
its astonishing that it ran to be fair as it didn’t even turn over for long to start.
i can try and find the order online but if anyone has the order to remove and install head bolts would save me some good time?
I can can upload a video if someone can advise on how to do this but as an attachment it says it’s the wrong format
the possibly warranty as above but now it’s stripped maybe a no go plus was it a poor build in the first place to fail as it has , if it’s repairable i would start from the beginning as if it was never re built ie getting it bored , a minimal re bore and a few cc it will reduce compression in theory as more space in the bore but as you will more than likely get forged pistons any way you are not likely to ever notice a few extra cc , there are engine rebuilds and engine rebuilds depends on builder and budget used , a subaru dealer has a 2.5 in with cracked ring lands they would only change the pistons nothing else , so basically putting a piston that has a known weakness back into a bore possibly worse for wear due to a damaged piston not good , i don’t know where you are based but down south is subaru4u or richard at fb tuning , or paul finch who is from what i’ve heard the dogs dangly bits when it comes to rebuilding , you should be able to drop engine off with him or ship to him if you are not local , sorry to be doom and gloom the amount of damage on yours worries me on the rebuild side but who knows it could be fine , don’t skimp on a rebuild use a good subaru rebuilder not a local garage
the possibly warranty as above but now it’s stripped maybe a no go plus was it a poor build in the first place to fail as it has , if it’s repairable i would start from the beginning as if it was never re built ie getting it bored , a minimal re bore and a few cc it will reduce compression in theory as more space in the bore but as you will more than likely get forged pistons any way you are not likely to ever notice a few extra cc , there are engine rebuilds and engine rebuilds depends on builder and budget used , a subaru dealer has a 2.5 in with cracked ring lands they would only change the pistons nothing else , so basically putting a piston that has a known weakness back into a bore possibly worse for wear due to a damaged piston not good , i don’t know where you are based but down south is subaru4u or richard at fb tuning , or paul finch who is from what i’ve heard the dogs dangly bits when it comes to rebuilding , you should be able to drop engine off with him or ship to him if you are not local , sorry to be doom and gloom the amount of damage on yours worries me on the rebuild side but who knows it could be fine , don’t skimp on a rebuild use a good subaru rebuilder not a local garage
Ok so it probably isn’t going to make much difference with slightly bigger pistons and yes they will be forged. I think it was a very basic rebuild to be honest in someone’s garage.
i am planning on doing the rebuild myself as I have done 2 before but we’re no where near this bad.
i will be very meticulous in the build and will all be done properly, the only thing I would need to do is get a machine workshop to carry out that work.
i May post a thread on the projects page once all opened up so we can see the progress.
once it’s apart I can then sort through what the plan would be with regards to the block and any other damaged sustained, also a parts list of what I would need for the full rebuild.
Just caught up and want to clarify a few points from above.
Liners:
There are not liners in a CDB. It’s a solid single piece of aluminium.
Stroking:
A 2.0 is usually stroked to 2.1 with an EJ25 79mm throw crank shaft (EJ20 is 75mm), standard length rods and “stroker” pistons. The stroker pistons differ from standard ones by having the wrist pin location 2mm closer to the crown face. This takes in the 2mm extra throw on the crank and stops the piston hitting the valves at TDC. Important point here is that if you do go that route you’ll need to get your block machined to accept the EJ25 crank which has end thrust bearing rather than centre which your CDB will originally have been. If you apply the same theory to the EJ22 you get 2.3 like the one Arch is selling.
lol i’m in herts too , paul finch can machine things for you , if it’s in the budget i would consider a 2.1 stroker but it’s not critical , good luck with the rebuild , i could probably rebuild one but for me it’s time and confidence to do it , not teaching sucking eggs don’t forget to adjust valve clearance plus arp or the like head bolts , i will pm you the area i’m in could be neighbours lol
Ok so an update, got one head off looks ok no visual damage but will need to get it checked, the piston that was smashed inside the block is also out to reveal damage.
im very surprised there was not more to be honest, the bore actually looks good and still has original honing, the damaged area is where the conrod has been hitting the bore in 2 places and also snapping off an oil squirter.
please see pics guys and advise if possible if I can get this bored ?
I think i can can safely say this is Ringland failure and big possibly at the same time?
Also so can someone confirm these are forged pistons? I.e standard Cracked and fallen to pieces. Is this forged? The remains You can also see the damage to bore and crank from con rod Not much left of the piston
I’d say yes pal but if you’ve a engineers near you they’d give you a much better answer.
That is the worst engine failure iv seen espeacilly with the car still running!
Keep uodated with which direction your going in mate engine rebuild wise
I’d say yes pal but if you’ve a engineers near you they’d give you a much better answer.
That is the worst engine failure iv seen espeacilly with the car still running!
Keep uodated with which direction your going in mate engine rebuild wise
Yes will do, going to get all in total pieces tomorrow and then clean all to see any damage.
do you know if these pistons are the forged standard ones?
The lettering on them is meant to show wether there forged or not pal either way there going in bin!
Biught a 93 with a cdb in last night that I’m going to pull engine on and rebuild although Won’t be starting on it to end of week. And will be as and when get chance to have a go at it.
Realky intrested to see how much you get prices back at if you bore it and upgrade it
so so I have seemed advice and have made a decision on which way the build is going to go.
the cdb is ok but would have to be for a stroker not standard pistons, for what I want it for and the cost involved this is not viable for me so the block will be up for sale soon.
i have managed to get hold of a scdb which I’m going to rebuild and with the aim of 400-450 bhp tops as I know that’s their limit.
im starting a list of parts I would need to upgrade but parts are a bit sketchy on capability and reliability so what I have so far is.
walborogh fuel pump, 255 is this enough? injectors 750cc? turbo ? Which size for quickest spool? Oil pump, which size or manufacturer? bearings, I’m presuming acl racing? im presuming clutch aswell?
i already have,
fmic, apexi ecu, headers and full exhaust system.
i think this would be enough for the goal but what are your thoughts?
I know the gearbox isnt isn’t good enough but that’s another project when it pops
05 September 2019, 11:38 PM
Wow just wow
they do have a steel sleeve for the rings to run against but not a separate liner.
