Selhurst Scooby

I have had some running issues which threw out an error code P0172 which was tricky to resolve, but after cleaning the MAF she is now running as she should be.
The one thing that I can no longer find is the MAP that I had installed by a well known mapper. I have been in contact with the mapper and he is happy to look into this issue but he's not particularly local to me so I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar problem and how they fixed it!

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

I love the "well known mapper" phrase, it does raise a smile, it makes them sound like some secret tribe who's name cannot be mentioned like Hamlet!

So, what do you mean you cannot find your map?

Are you using software that shows the ECU codes or are you assuming you can see it?

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

if your car runs, then ya Map is still there lol

1509joe

iTrader: (2)

Maybe its in the glove box

Selhurst Scooby

Ok, so to be clear, I used to be able to use sport# to activate the custom MAP from the centre console, you would notice a significant change in the engine response

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

If it as occurred since the remap and the fault code problem I would speak to your Unicorn and get them to fix it.
Have you cleared the fault code?

Selhurst Scooby

fault code appeared 3 times but now all good...I plan to visit mr Unicorn but I just wondered if there was a simple fix...

Don Clark

So from the use of "sport#" we are talking 2008 STI Hatch or later.
With certain fault codes the car will go into a semi-limp mode at which time you cannot select Sport# (to prevent damage to the engine)
from the owners handbook

Selhurst Scooby

Thanks Don, you are correct (of course) we are talking about a 2010 hatch.
The car seems to drive fine, without hesitation etc, but since the last code P0172 was thrown (system too rich) she has behaved herself, there have been no black clouds of smoke and the exhaust tips have remained clean.
It is of course feasible that she is in "semi-limp mode" but I have taken her to three garages (2 with knowledge of subarus) who can find nothing wrong, but what you suggest makes perfect sense....
I just need to get it looked at....

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

I have a p0172 fault code have put in two genuine front oxygen sensors as it was advised the new sensor fitted may be faulty
Still have the fault code no boost leaks and a new afm still the fault code
My car has never been right since it was mapped and then mapped again
Our conclusion based on all diagnostic tests
Is it’s Bob Rawles map or the ecu can’t cope with the mods I’m running
Spoke to scoobyclinic who advise a syvecs who also is saying the standard ecu is struggling
So saving the penny’s for a syvecs and a trip to the clinic in the new year

SmurfyBhoy

What you tying to do that "ECU" is strugling

Sounds like usual salesman patter

Folk run silly power, flex fuel the lot on stock ecu.........

Syvecs is the daddy no doubt

Just curious as to what exactly it is "struggling" with

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

The car has been mapped by bob twice
The car was inspected by him a 3rd time
It’s running like a bag of **** misfiring jerking etc etc
P0172 fault code
Had issue with 4 bar map sensor o ring not sealing correctly fixed still p0172 two genuine Subaru o2 sensors fitted new afm no boost leaks no wiring issues to and from ecu
Injectors tested and are perfect
The front sensor is not reading at all no switching between open and closed loop

We conclude it’s mapping or the ecu is somehow struggling with bolt on mods
But when you dare question a mappers capability’s I mean it couldn’t possibly be something they’ve done
And my car was running like a mouses heart prior to mapping
I’m now in a position we’re it needs a 3rd map and after paying 550 for first map and 250 for second map I’m not inclined to spend anymore money on the oem ecu

I’d rather take the plunge and fit syvecs and use a different mapper
They seam to be a taboo on here we’re you can’t mention names
I’ve had a lot of performance cars and have been to many specliasts
And I’ve come to the stark realization once they have your money they’re not interested

SmurfyBhoy

I would find a decent tuner who doesn't want to rip you off 1st of all

Paying for a 2nd map from same tuner after not happy with 1st surely should be fixed FoC ?

Id also try a new tuner capable of working with stock ECU before forking out over 2k on a syvecs

What mods you running on what car ?

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

I was told there was a boost leak from an intercooler pipe that’s why it needed the second map
Even though the car was running like **** immediately after the first map
I had fitted myself hks induction kit
Hks fmic
Owens turbo
Decaf downpipe
Invidia n1 exhaust
Act clutch and flywheel


Murray Motorsport fitted my supplied parts on day of mapping as follows
Run fuel pump 340
I’d1000cc injectors
Perrin 4 bar map sensor
Grimspeed 3 port boost solenoid

I’m going to try scoobyclinic next bit that’s not 100 definite
They never tried to sell me a syvecs ecu to be fair
I’m going go syvecs next for peace of mind
Who is the best mapper in the uk?
Can anyone answer that question straight up?
No bull**** no politicians answer because that’s the person I want to go to

Selhurst Scooby

By comparison, I'm running a virtual standard unit with upgraded cat back and air filter. The car was running fine pre and post mapping (2015) and only recently threw out this P0172 code TBH it runs fine but I can't be 100% sure if its running in a "limp mode" and frustrating that I don't have sport# option when I want to play...
I used a different mapper but due to the time between code and map it would be wrong to mention names (he has offered to take a look but I'm not that local to him) as I'm not convinced it its the map, more the ECU? but I'm not an expert and finding reliable advice with these cars is sometimes very difficult. Raggy keep posting how you get on & if I hear anything I will update.
Anyone else suffered a similar problem with a hatch or later please post...

SmurfyBhoy

1st of all if u had boost leak why was it not running like **** when u arrived.

Nothing there should be too crazy for stock ecu,

Id personally recommend Andy Forrest he did mine on stock turbo and on upgraded turbo never had an issue,

I have since visited another tuner to get Carberry Rom who has got my car running faster still although it took a few visits to get it spot on,

So Andy F if your not looking to break records and want it to run spot on after the first map in all conditions just like a stock car, although i bet if i asked him for a kill map like i have now he could easily sort that too.

I just wanted Carberry Rom for the launch control as i can adjust its rpm myself with laptop.

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

It was running terribly when I went back a second time and again after I took it home
Thanks for all the advice definitely some things to consider

domino46

never had any issues with bobs mapping on any of my motors and my hatch is running 530bhp on the standard ecu and runs sweet ,, have used other mappers and never been happy until I used bob ,, that was about 10-15 years ago and about 30+ Subarus lol

Bob Rawle

Hi Gary :-) ..

For all this reading gary has a JDM hatch, his ecu is actually more capable than the one I had in my own Hawkeye that runs circa 600 bhp .. the suggestion to change ecu's is nonsense if the justification is lack of capability .. but obviously its nice to be able to sy "I have a Svecs"

I have had extensive communications with him over a number of months stretching back to June, the last was on the 6th of September.

On the 3rd of september gary sent me this ...

Hi bob apologies for lack of update
We narrowed fault with car down to Perrin 4 bar map sensor
The mechanic said in live data the sensor was reading 1bar pressure dropping off when driving
He put his own vacuum into the manifold and the car was running sweetly
His conclusion was the sensor wasn’t sitting correctly in the manifold
He removed sensor put in a new o ring refitted drove the car was perfect
However following day back to Normal poor start running no rev above 2000 rpm
Put vacuum
Back into the manifold car runs perfect again
Any idea he reckons the sensor is not faulty but for some reason it looks like it’s not sitting correctly sealing in the manifold

Thanks bob
Gary


Sent from my iPhone

So the next email from him related to over heating, he had a mishimoto radiator installed and the cooling fans were not cutting in ... probably not plugged in I suggested !

Final email about the lambda, his mechanic had decided that the ecu must be faulty ... he sent this ...

Hi bob as always thank you for the response
I fitted genuine Subaru sensor both times 22641a500 confirmed by 2 different dealers
As correct part number I have only ever used these sensors
A possibility? I have fitted a miltek decat downpipe it’s been recommended to me to fit the upstream sensor lower down in the front pipe away from the turbo the front pipe has two fittings for the sensor one higher up than the other
The lambda from cold is in open loop when it reaches temperature it’s not switching to closed loop
Can provide graph with data if you need it?
We conclude the car requires aftermarket ecu and set up?
Another question if I may, is the front Subaru sensor up to the task ? Do I need a wideband sensor?
My mechanic reports if the ecu is not reading the sensor the ecu is faulty or the software is the issue one or the two?

My reply ....

Gary I said IF I did not suggest you had …

If you are talking about the UP pipe, between headers and turbo, there is no second position for the lambda, it would be in the collector, if talking about the down pipe, jthat bolts off the back mob the turbo, then the position immediately behind the turbo is the correct one

The front sensor is not a true wide band. Its more than adequate for the intended task allied to the factory ecu. But its not a true wideband.

You don’t just change a sensor, ia true wide band would not work with the factory ecu. You need a compatible sensor and ecu

But I don’t think your mechanic understands the ecu well enough to comment on what may or may not be happening. The JDM ecu takes a long time before it starts to use the lambda system, it only uses it OFF boost just to say not on boost. How long have you waited to see if it starts to work. You should take him for a drive for an hour with his equipment plugged in and then see if its working or not

Good luck regarding an ecu change, you will need a bit of a big budget given your car is a drive by wire … the Syvecs is the only real option for it and that will cost you around £2600 all told inc mapping etc

bob

Just so everyone understands and doesn't misinterpret Gary's posts which I am sure were not meant to be malicious

When it comes to the closed loop off boost lambda control the JDM version of the hatch ecu takes considerably longer to actually start using it compared to the European (UK) version

cheers

Bob

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Can you come to cork and fix my car bob?
I was told this was impossible
The front lambda isn’t reading Open to closed
As you know you have mapped it twice and plugged into it a third time and my car is a dead duck
We have carried out all the checks you asked for to be done
It’s a mapping issue I have all our messages on file but it’s a bit childish to be coping
And pasting in here when we need to get to the bottom of why my car drove to murray Motorsport in perfect health and after 2 maps is a dead duck horrendous won’t start won’t drive
I ask again when can we organize for you to fix my vehicle?

Bob Rawle

Hi Gary, at my age I am well past childhood ... :-)

Truth is fact .. nothing like letting people see what is said ... six weeks after your last email and my reply you spark up in here ... what does that say about you ? I have my opinion

Given what was wired into your footwell at the outset I think you are best looking there :-) .. I am willing to help anyone ... spent four hours today rewiring a legacy to run an AlcaTek after a single turbo conversion without any notice at significant inconvenience to myself but it got the job done.

I will post the rest of the emails up as well one by one when I think fit ... I have nothing to hide or nothing I want to hide here

Like I say I have and always will help anyone wherever I can but there are limits ... on mapping the car was fine, when I looked at it after the car was fine, no starting issues at all

It was far from in perfect heath as you well know .. lol ..

First mapped July 2016 ... front lambda failed at end of mapping session

Looked at again in October 2016 .. you reported a "stutter" at part throttle which was due to lack of ecu learning from the lambda not working .. check and adjusted FOC (apart from £50 travel cost) .. lambda still not working

Checked yet again at a subsequent visit again at no charge and nothing noted except lambda still not working properly

You cant map a fault into life Gary ... I would make a fortune if I could ... lol

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

I’m not following
The car was in perfect health the first day you mapped it
After mapping I had a hestitation between 2.5k and 3k when asked about this you said the sensor failed during mapping then you blamed the hks dump valve I had the dump valve removed and the pipe welded shut
Poor starting and jerking horrendous running you mapped it again
Still the same issues
It came back a 3rd time were you informed me the brand new lambda sensor I replaced was faulty
I ran with that and purchased a second one then tested the sensor you said was faulty and low and behold the heater element is working perfect on the sensor
I collected the car a 3rd time and it took 40 seconds for it to start
All the same issues still apparent

Now let’s back up I spend 550 pound for a map 250 for second map
Done a round trip 4 times of 500 miles with 4 days off work two lambda sensors at 882 euro for both
On top of this I’m paying my mechanic by the hour to do all the checks you have asked to be done on the car whilst dismissing it was anything map related

The truth of the car is my car is literally dead I cannot drive it I cannot sell it I can hardly start it
I ask for a third time are you willing to fly into cork airport to rectify the issues with my vehicle
Or can you post up my map so I can get someone to have a look at the file and get some honest help instead of you taking pot shots on here might be more helpful if you can tell me how your going to help rectify the issues with the car as a result of your map?

Bob Rawle

gary get real ... you have dug a big hole for yourself !

have a good life I have spent hours on emails with you offering advise and input to help with problems including the ones that have NOTHING to do with me

I didn't tell you the lambda sensor was faulty at the third check I told you its was "not working" and "could" be still faulty ... big difference !!
very descriptive words .. great on the keyboard ... lol

careful you don't hit something when going in reverse ... lol

get some one to read your map ... I could even if I hadn't mapped it ... you paid me to map your car .. not for the map ... that never happens and never will .. no workman every gives his tools away .. lol

If you keep going I will see you legally just to say you are completely out of order and behaving like a .. well I wouldn't be so rude !

Bob Rawle

To be correct you didn't bother to be present at the third check so those words were through Murray Motorsport

For clarity ..

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Bob your ego is out of control all the lols I’m glad you find this so funny
I’m certainly not laughing . I’m the person left holding the baby .
I wasn’t present the third time because the car was at murray Motorsport 8 weeks by the time you came over and living 250 miles away it’s not like I can be there in 5 mins.

How very convenient my lambda failed at the end of the first session so you could collect your 550 pound tell me if my car was riddled with so many faults as your pointing out why did you map it at all ?

So this is the way one of the best so called mappers behaves just blame the car and wash your hands?
I hope this is a lesson to members on the forum don’t be afraid to speak up
And it’s plain for all to see what Bob Rawle does when issues arise it’s beyond disgraceful

I am a paying customer I am quite entitled to voice my opinion for a service I received that was below par to say the least

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

Did you change the front 02 and inspect the wiring then ?

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Yes changed the sensor in August 16 mapped again
Still no reading I was told by bob the front lambda was faulty as he tested it and my brand new sensor I purchased from Subaru had subsequently failed within 4 month period and less than 1000 miles driving
Ok I ordered and paid for another put that sensor in we tested the 4 month old sensor when we removed it and there was contuinty in the element
It was then sudgested I check the wiring we did no fault with wiring
I’m still on here trying to find a resolution
I am willing to pay for bob to fly over and put him in a hotel seems fair right
Doesn’t seem fair to take 800 pounds tell me two lambdas are blown and run with the money?

SmurfyBhoy

How long did your £550 map take to complete ?

What i do not get is if you had faulty lambda

Was 1st map running bad as it was left in a state whereby fitting new sensor would fix this ?

Did you not get any lamda codes EML ?

Why did you pay so much for 2nd visit if only fault was an o2 sensor ?

If it takes so long to start using lambda then how does it drive during this period cold start etc ?

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Po172 every time
Also I was then told it had a boost leak from an intercooler pipe that needed fixing and I would have to pay for the second map I was told you could map a car with a boost leak and not even know it and the car would only show symptoms of this down the road of that was another 250

Yes I was told during the first map the sensor failed at the end of the mapping session and a new lambda would rectify any issues I may have driving home and to stay off boat until I could acquire a new sensor

The car could take 30 to sixty turns to fire splutter and flood a lot of times my mechanic had to come to my house to get it going it running very very rich
I was told to check various things by bob which we have done
There is nothing else it could be but his map

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

They first map took around an hour and a half out driving it
We’re all the other cars before me we completed in far lass time I was thinking all wasn’t right with the car it turned out I was correct