bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Just curious as to how often you empty your catch cans, would be interesting to know if the more power/boost you running for engine and low/medium power dictates how quick it fills up? Or am I wrong.

Dosent seem long ago since I emptied it when it was half full and dont really drive it that often, but when i do it gets given proper boost, must be no more than a couple of hundred miles at a guess. (Half/1/3 full again)

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Get it on a return to sump

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

I would but have you seen what it looks like? Not sure if id like that going into sump

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Yeah I've it mate, it's harmless enough just a bit of vapour that emulsifies a bit, no biggie.
Near enough all the sprint and hillclimb boys I know do it, plus loads of the TA gang.
If it was an issue in confident they wouldn't do it, bearing in mind some of these cars are run by top end tuners.
Would certainly make your life easier

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Deffo make life easier its a farce tbh, ill look into it joe

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

You can get a fitting to go on where your sump plug goes, then plumb the return to that.
That's a simple way of doing it.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Yeah I've read about the sump plug fitting kit, saves drilling and welding new hole.
Thanks

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

I think it depends on the engine.
Bearing in mind I push my engines very hard.

On say a big power 2.5 I had that made good power and drank the oil I returned it to sump.

Say on the 2.1 I have in at the moment which uses relatively little then I have it not returning to sump. As when the catch can gets full, it is full of the gunky stuff.

So I would say you could go either way and it is down to how a particular engines oil system behaves/uses its oil.

Alan Jeffery

You're always going to get more breather gases when you are running big cylinder fills, it's just the volume. I tend to go for closed breathers for road cars, and keep the one way valve (PCV) in the loop. If you feed the breathers into your tank, then take the gas back into the PCV, you'll end up with less gunk in the tank. The gunk is just the effect of condensation of course. Certain cars have a tendency to leak oil through the turbo ring seals, in which case feeding the breather back into the inlet pipe will introduce a slight vac in the crankcase and hence the core housing and improve the issue.

Cambs_Stuart

iTrader: (3)

Interesting thread. I've just ordered a catch can, after cleaning my intercooler and finding some oil residue in there. I was going to go for a closed system, retaining the pcv and feeding the (nice, clean and de-oiled) air back to the turbo inlet. But no return to sump yet, as I wanted to see how much the catch can collects and what I find in there.

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Using a good quality catch can and configuring it correctly is half the battle.
My new one I designed is large capacity 2L with some trick innards I came up with, seems to work well on my rather heavy breathing 2.5 that only does track work

Paben

iTrader: (5)

I wouldn't want the gooey gunk that collects in my catch can to be directed back to the sump. But perhaps cars used a lot on track don't have this problem.

Cambs_Stuart

iTrader: (3)

Paben, how would you describe your driving style? Do you do much track work? is your car a daily driver?
I'm wondering if you get more "Junk" or emulsified oil if the car is driven conservatively for short distances and more condensation forms. Perhaps if the car is driven harder then you get more oil and less margarine?
I am making this up off the top of my head with no prior experience so everyone please feel free to correct me.

Alan Jeffery

With road cars you get the constant cold starts and runs at low revs. It's why I like to try a separate system for road and track cars. Sadly some of you chaps out there can't make your mind up!

Paben

iTrader: (5)

The car does no track work and it's not a daily driver. It's driven a couple of times a week, never short distances and I don't hang about in it either.
It seems to me that a cold metal catch can is likely to suffer from internal condensation when combined with hot oil-mist gasses so the resulting emulsion is almost inevitable.
Perhaps there is a case for positioning the catch can close to the engine to keep it warm? Mine lives by the passenger side wing so is as far from the engine as it could be.
There was a thread on 22b recently where a plastic catch can cured the emulsion problem.

Alan Jeffery

Yep, I could go along with that...

Cambs_Stuart

iTrader: (3)

So based on that a closed system with no return to sump would be the best set up for a daily drive road car?

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Take into account how often you change your oil

Emptying catch cans is a pain

Alan Jeffery

That's what Subaru do! The trouble comes when you're running 500 bhp..

Cambs_Stuart

iTrader: (3)

I'll do the catch can this weekend. 500 bhp may take a little longer.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

I'm running a 2.0 with 2 bar running through it so my guess is that the engine is working hard, tbf on good sunny days I'll take it to work which is 10-15mins drive so mostly not warmed up fully till I get to work (short journeys) and other times I'll take it for a good thrashing.
I'll take a picture of the stuff when I empty it, but last time it was quite runny liquid, not thick or gunky. More like flat looking Coca Cola.
IMO it looks too wrong to put back in engine, maybe others turn out a bit different?

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

So at that level or near, best to return to sump?

Alan Jeffery

You may need to start thinking about it! Personally I'd say a track car should always have that, and a fast road car may have to do that.

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Ive gone with return to sump on my new build, With the oil returning to the pan the nasties get burnt up going back through the hot system. The remains wont stay in the can for long so shouldnt emulsify like they they do in a non return can.

Plus big power/high boost motors can push out 1/2 litre of oil or more on hard launches.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

I'm thinking I may need to as for a toy that only gets used frequently it fills up quick, when I empty it I'm gonna log the mileage and see how many miles it takes to fill then I'll think of return to sump.
Obviously I'll change oil early.

I'm ready to change oil already and probably only done 1k if that.

edsel

iTrader: (2)

Im running a V2 RA making 320. It wasnt until I had my first "spirited" drive that I noticed smoke on start up the following day, the throttle body and FMIC pipes had a lot of oily residue inside.
Paul finch recommended a baffled three port catch can which I bought from OBP. If I do a open pit lane track day I usually end up collecting around 1/4 litre of muck. On the road I just check the can as I would the engine oil level and empty accordingly.
I'm with non return to sump school of thought, I cant see how the vapour residue can be anything but damaging going back into the sump.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

I have two baffled catch cans, head breather/crankcase breather back to turbo inlet pipe.
The head can never takes anything. The crankcase can gets about a third full of oil after 4 launches at the Pod but trackdays very little and road use not a drip.
I used to get some gunk in the crank breather can when the car was used more for short journeys i.e. going to work but not now with mainly longer runs.
Trev

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

I have a return to sump set up, car is built for the track but gets a lot of use on the road, never noticed anything wrong with the oil when doing oil changes etc, as dubzy has said it all gets burnt off (if there is anything to get burnt off) and I think because it gets left in a can it looks worse rather than if it did return to sump, as long as you are getting the car fully to temp when you use it you will be fine, but if you use your car like a taxi for lots of short journeys then best use a closed or non return to sump set up

jazzyjembreaze

iTrader: (11)

^
This
Only used for short periods or the engine just takes a stroll, your cans are more likely to be filling with condensate , so as said VTA

Cambs_Stuart

iTrader: (3)

I've done a bit of reading:

http://www.maintenanceresources.com/...lysis/oa-m.htm

And

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...engine&f=false

Which makes me think getting the "gunk" out of the engine is as important, if not more so if you drive it like it's a taxi. Based on this, if I do find a lot of condensation in the catch can I'll just siphon it out and not go for a return to sump.