walterwhite

i've had trouble with my steering for a while, had it into multiple places, multiple times - always comes back "nothing wrong with it".

the problem is that the steering is very sloppy. the more weight or "G" you put into a corner, the more the steering and car seem to disconnect from each other.

if you push it too far the steering will feel like a totally gives way and has the sensation of slipping on ice maybe.

so... i came round a wide junction which allows you to take it without slowing down, and i 180 spun the car and ended up in a ditch! i swear this was to do with the steering problem and not a loss of traction. the car just whipped right round!!

i know nothing about cars, but is this even possible? (the 180 spin without traction loss i.e. simply skidding round)

i know i could recreate this spin just going round a good size roundabout at relatively low speeds.

ignoring the obvious "take it to a decent garage" for the moment, what do you think about this?

thanks.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

It doesn't sound like there is a problem with the steering, it sounds like you're suffering from an excess of over steer, which describes the car's reaction to a steering input from you. Assuming the tyres are all in good order and not made of plastic you might well have a suspension problem.
Where you say 'simply skidding around' is actually a result of a loss of traction on the rear.
You haven't said if the car has any suspension mods. If the rear is set up too stiff, such as a big ARB on the rear, you can induce over steer characteristics.

You really need to get it to a specialist before you end up in another ditch, possibly taking someone else along for the ride as well.

Torquemada

Sounds like the definition of losing traction. Car spins out? Then I'd say that is a loss of traction...

tyres worn?
Tyre pressures really low? (I foolishly encountered this once and was sideways at less than 30mph)

Lots of other stuff to check but I'd check those, take it to a Subaru specialist garage and not some random place and see how it is.

Failing the above, you could just possibly be the worlds worst driver?

walterwhite

i know technically it is a loss of traction. but not as the prime cause it seems in my mind.

for instance you shouldn't be able to lose significant traction (in the dry) going round a roundabout at 10mph. but it feels like i can. i get that slipping on ice sensation unless i slow RIGHT down, like 5mph.

the car has lost any sensation of the tyres biting/gripping into the tarmac when going into a corner. instead all you get is an elastic sensation rocking the steering wheel back and forth (so a scandinavian flick is impossible)

the more you push into a corner, the more the steering wheel and car are misaligned... e.g. going round a corner, i am still holding the steering wheel to the right, but the car is pointing left!

tyres are brand new (just had MOT) and it has been to a Subaru garage a few times with this problem.

when i first got the car it was amazing. i could blast through B-roads like i never thought was possible with TOTAL confidence, it felt glued to the road in the corners.

now i'm guessing i couldn't even take the same B-road at half the speed (and with EXTREME lack of confidence)

to show how bad it is, i couldn't keep up with a granny in an old corsa on this B-road. no joke, this actually happened. i would catch up with her on the straights, but i have to slow way down in the corners, and i see her white perm speed away!

no suspension mods or anything.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Sounds like ****ed up suspension or tyres, even a combination of both.


You are now describing understeer.


What tyres and suspension do you have and how quick are you going?

walterwhite

not sure of the tyres. suspension should be stock config.

it is a blob eye spec C.

i wasn't going slow exactly, but certainly not fast enough to spin in a normal car (even a corsa or some little runaround)

i should have been able in another scooby (or this one, before the problem developed) to bomb round the same corner at twice the speed and have a little (perfectly controllable) tail action... shouldn't have 180'd!

i actually have to go through corners much slower with this problem than i normally would be able to.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Yep.
To the OP, loss of cornering grip on the front = under steer, loss of cornering grip on the rear = over steer.
From the way you describe your car's behaviour it seems you have something fundamentally wrong, rather than a simple maladjustment. If it was fine when you first got it, then something has been changed or worn/broken.

walterwhite

the steering is so loose you can't even go fast enough to get to the point of grip (or lack of)

it is getting to the point now where i could rock the steering wheel left to right hard repeatedly, and the car would carry on straight forward, instead of weaving in and out like it should.

Khandaris

Do you have a quick release boss kit installed for your steering wheel?

Could be excess play in the steering wheel, so it needs to turn and 'lock' before it engages the wheel.. by the time you have panicked and turned hard, it has finally engaged and got your car all out of shape.

did you have the wheel alignment re-done when you had the new tyres put on? if not, it could be that you have positive camber on one or more of your wheels, causing you to have virtually no traction when cornering - but if its as bad as you say.. you would see this (top of wheel further out from the car than the bottom of wheel)

Lastly, it could be your track rods that are failed / failing or some component attached. Meaning your wheels arent turning together

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

If it's as bad as you say it is:
a) I wouldn't be driving it unless I was taking it for repairs, I certainly wouldn't be testing it to see where the limit is on a public road.
b) I would take it to a subaru specialist ASAP (NOT a main dealer)

walterwhite

i did take it to a very reputable place (deal only with JDM and high performance) and they said the steering the fine.

there was no time to panic, it whipped round before i knew what was going on! i used to be able to 'read' what this car was doing, there was instant feedback - now there is zero feedback.

there is immense play in the wheel. this is why i said a scandinavian flick was impossible. you would need to flick the wheel by an exaggerated amount to try one, and this would hardly be a flick. even then, the car would just twitch slightly

eggy790

iTrader: (20)

something up with the geo and suspension, post location and someone will recommend the nearest specialist for you.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

Not a scoob, but had similar and it turned out to be both bottom ball joints shot

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

It's probably not the steering then, although it may well feel like it is to you in the driving seat. You need to look at the associated components.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I'd be looking at tyres first: what, how big, and over/under inflated. I'd be interested to know what's on there...I've seen some cheap rubbish on these cars and it's lunacy.

If it's not tyres, check the rear isn't too stiff, but IS stiff enough: arb slightly larger than the front one.
You don't lift off in a corner at all do you? Lift off oversteer is a nightmare in these cars.

If not that, what about geometry settings?

1509joe

iTrader: (2)

Possible steering knuckle failure on the steering column.

gazzawrx

iTrader: (11)

This, or worn rack, tie rods or track rod ends, jack the car up and wobble the front wheels side to side and see if theres any play.

merlin24

iTrader: (1)

As above, possible partially seized steering knuckle or top strut mounts shot causing a loss of self centering on the steering.

Mick

ezesti330s

Have you checked all your springs there's nothing snapped any bushes gone off or bad rod ends or anything un towards . Had this in a old escort where the spring had snapped in the mounting cup and couldn't be seen until it popped out under load turning then reseated itself as I straightened up . Very scary !! Gutted you ended up in a ditch mate

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

Is the DCCD fewked?

walterwhite

in glasgow here... loss of self-centering steering sounds right.

i never touch the DCCD, how would i know? not knowledgeable about cars, so can't really check anything myself, to see if anything is worn or loose.

with the amount of times "the steering" has been checked, and supposedly was fine, i wondered too about associated components, something not obvious that they weren't picking up on... wish i knew more about cars, i'd be under there myself having a good look!

the tyres i have on now are crappy granted, but the problem started even when i had the Potenza RE070's on it, so don't think it is the tyres... should be impossible for any tyres to affect the handling to this degree!

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Why? They are the sole point of contact between car and road.

So...what is on now, what size and what pressures?

Neil XR

iTrader: (1)

maybe ditch finders are fitted

possible dccd isnt working or ball joints or rear trailing arm is worm or snapped

Neil XR

iTrader: (1)

where in glasgow are you taking the car for inspection

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

^^^ this.
It might seem very basic, but if you've lost your way in a problem you have to go back to basics and work your way through and you certainly can't assume the tyres are not the source of a problem.

sprigeteer

iTrader: (9)

Tyres are critical and can destroy handling especially if a mixed or worn set are on (especially front and back). Not knowing what tyres are on your car and then not thinking they are a factor is an error. Saying that, it sounds like a combination of factors are at play here, so I would start with the obvious areas as highlighted here and spend some money getting it properly looked at.

walterwhite

i understand tyres WILL affect handling in a big way.

but tyres cannot be the problem here. don't know the size, whatever the standard size is for the car, and i just had MOT so pressure should be ok.

i can lose 'traction', grip or steering (whatever the problem is) at 10mph going into a mild corner. there is more grip on ice under these circumstances with a RWD car on skinny tyres...

i can feel the steering wheel itself is loose and has tons of play.

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

By your own admission you know nothing about cars, no offence intended whatsoever.
The things you are saying seem to bear that out. Statements such as loss of control of the car without loss of traction, tyre pressure must be ok because it's had an MoT (nonsense), etc. all indicate that you are not going to be able to sort this out yourself.
Owing to your lack of knowledge you will be probably be unable to identify or check the functionality of most of what the advice here is telling you to check.
This is not criticism of you, none of us are born with the knowledge, but a bit like your car, we're going round in circles here.

You really do need to get your car looked at properly before it does you some harm, financially or physically.

walterwhite

no problem boss.

i have had this problem checked out no less than 7 times. twice at two different places, and three times at a third place - all to be told it is absolutely fine, costing me ££££ in the process.

totally lost the will with this thing. if i took it in for an eighth time, i would FULLY expect the same response... so i think i'll keep my money. already spent £400 on an MOT. what kind of car handles like this and can pass an MOT anyway?!

love the car, but would sell it in an instant if i thought someone would buy it, wouldn't even feel comfortable offing it, even with full disclosure. i have thought of getting rid of it for breaking. i think that is all it is good for at this point.

it is a shame if i bought a new scooby it would likely be more sluggish and less enjoyable.

**jay**

iTrader: (1)

If it was steeering problem it be understeering ie going straight on, i can put money on it it will be tyre related as when i bought my ra it had cheap tyres to the point i was scared out my mind to take it out untill my new wheels arrived so i could put decent rubber on them.
People that think a tyre is a tyre needs a reality check, my old daily diesel banger still gets decent tyres on it.