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I don't recall saying any configuration is always the best solution Matty?
You should choose the solution based on budget and application, every config is a compromise based around what you can afford and what part of the performance is most important to you.
My own car is a great example of making choices based on the application its put to, it spends 99% of its time on the road as a daily driver, so I built it around throttle response and mid range torque. Had I been targeting only sprint performance I would have gone for more power, run it on rocket fuel with a high compression and junked a lot of weight, but it would have been crap as a daily road car.
Seem as though it's been stinking hot this week and i did a trackday on the Snetterton 300 track on Tuesday on the hottest day of the year, you may find this info interesting. Ambient temperature was 26 degrees C for this log, it went up to 29 degrees by the end of the day.
Car was run at 1.8BAR (Owen twin scroll 73mm compressor) producing approx 500BHP (syvecs dyno plot says 505BHP), i had to turn the boost target down 0.1BAR because the turbo was spooling so well on a sustained run it was maxing my injectors, it's mapped for road and sprint use where EGT's aren't as high as seen on a trackday thrash, higher EGT improves spool and turbo response.
I was using flat foot shifting through the gears so boost levels hardly drop through the upshifts, gears used 3rd,4th,5th,6th. Top speed was 136MPH in 6th.
The log shows two complete laps of the 300 circuit, flat out as fast as it would go, full weight newage. I could have done 100 laps and charge temps were going no higher, as you can see the temps drop down to almost ambient as the load drops during braking and slowing for the lower speed sections.
Lowest charge temp 27.7 degrees C, highest 44.2 degrees C. In 5th gear as speed continues to rise, charge temp peaks and then starts to fall as more air is rammed through the air scoop, it's dropping at full throttle in 6th up to the peak speed braking point. There is no lack of air going through the scoop.
Two laps at this rate of load is never going to be seen on the road, on such a hot day it's as bad as it gets for testing how the IC copes with 500BHP flat out.
You think that isn't decent cooling on a flat out run on a very hot day? Bizzare.
Unlike you, i don't make wild claims or nonsense statements about anything on these cars, what i do is based on sound engineering and backed up with real life experience. That's probably why i can have such high reliability and get results, not just on my road car but on the race cars i build.
Just look at how many engine problems and high costs people trying to do what i do have had over the last decade and compare that to my now on 117K mile car. Same engine has done multiple seasons of sprinting and road use every single day (average 10K miles/year). It's been running this setup for 4.5 years on syvecs, a couple before that on EcuTek.
You think that isn't decent cooling on a flat out run on a very hot day? Bizzare.
Unlike you, i don't make wild claims or nonsense statements about anything on these cars, what i do is based on sound engineering and backed up with real life experience. That's probably why i can have such high reliability and get results, not just on my road car but on the race cars i build.
Just look at how many engine problems and high costs people trying to do what i do have had over the last decade and compare that to my now on 117K mile car. Same engine has done multiple seasons of sprinting and road use every single day (average 10K miles/year). It's been running this setup for 4.5 years on syvecs, a couple before that on EcuTek.
Go put your car in a wind tunnel and see how the airflow of the top mount performs vs a front mount.
You havn't had a front mount so you have no data to compare it against.
the cooler must be getting good airflow at the top speeds to keep ACT's down like that.
People forget how much heat the turbo compressor wheel creates, which can be in the 130c deg region even on the road.
Trev
Hopefully some of the readers of the info can get something useful from it, you are a lost cause.
Don't deflect john, you havn't ever back to back on your car for a comparison. Your going off limited knowledge in a single instance with a presumed result.
The lost cause seems to be you, you regurgitate the same comments over and over but never back up your finding with a true back to back tests, which others have done and disagree with what you say.
Don't deflect john, you havn't ever back to back on your car for a comparison. Your going off limited knowledge in a single instance with a presumed result.
The lost cause seems to be you, you regurgitate the same comments over and over but never back up your finding with a true back to back tests, which others have done and disagree with what you say.
I don't need to back to back on my car, its an Impreza, i've seen plenty enough info on these over the years to know how good this setup is. The data alone shows how there are zero issues with cooling capacity at any speed i will achieve.
Why would i chop up the front of my car and spend a fortune to do a back to back on my car to satisfy your inability to understand? I quite like the fact my bodywork is stock and i have the Air Con working and have an unrestricted airflow to the water radiator and oil cooler cores. Why would i want to put a heavy lump in front of that to make cooling worse, ruin the polar moment of the car and increase throttle response lag?
There is a lot more to an IC and the choices you make than you clearly understand.
Nothing you post brings any information, you just slag things off you don't understand or doesn't fit within your narrow minded approach. What is it that offends you so much you feel the need to slag off a product that works? If its just the cost then that's a pretty dumb reason, as people can choose not to buy it if its too expensive for them.
What if Chevron made a front mount kit using the same core material that their top mounts are made from ?
Would the top mounted chevron cooler out-perform the front mount then ??
What if Chevron made a front mount kit using the same core material that their top mounts are made from ?
Would the top mounted chevron cooler out-perform the front mount then ??
You would have to define what you mean by outperform.
You may need to use a larger core to get the same thermal performance because of the more restrictive airflow exit path of the FMIC, which has to pass through the Air Con radiator and water radiator and then around the wide engine.
You will get a slower throttle response with a larger core and more volume in the pipework needed with a FMIC.
You would have more room to build a larger core, so it would be a solution when you have maximised the thermal capacity of what you can fit into the stock TMIC location, but until you reach the limit it would be a backwards step to change.
FMIC are not a very good solution to the problem, which is why the WRC cars had properly designed airflow ducting and located the cores so that exit airflow didn't pass the air through another core (water radiator) and exited the air via a clean path back to airflow over the car.
Do you use a intercooler water spray while logging John ??
I use the stock IC spray system fitted to my STi, mapped to only come on when charge temp is above 20 degrees C, boost is over 1BAR and throttle is over 40%. I tend to top it up once a year.
As stated by Trev it does very little at the flow rate you see on the stock system, but i may as well use it as its there. Most of the year charge temps are lower than 20 degrees so it doesnt switch on.
It certainly didn't work out that way on the sprints.
Nah, I think your just a good driver with a sensible set up.
As they say, put a good driver in a lower hp car and beat the big boys.
Now stop getting your head so big as it don't suit
Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 29 June 2018 at 06:49 PM.
Just out of curiosity how much are these Chevron TMIC And is it a straight forward fit please? This is a rather lengthy thread so I apologise if this has already been mentioned but there is a disadvantage to a FMIC that is sometimes overlooked. Some will say it’s not relevant but it really is as it has already killed one Impreza engine! There are some people who actively seek to drive their car in the snow, me being one of them. Some fantastic winter roads to be driven on in Scotland but stopping (literally every mile) to clear the airflow to a FMIC is no fun. If you don’t bother you can destroy an engine in a very short period of time! A high quality/high performing TMIC truly is a great advantage on occasions!!!
Fit is very straight forward, it uses the OEM fittings and brackets. Cost you need to speak to Chevron, they offer two versions depending on your power level, with a lower cost core available if that's suitable for you.
Another benefit over the FMIC route is you wont blow any hoses off and drag crap into the inlet, which happens all the time on FMIC kits.
Not so relevant in the UK, but on the continent they have issues with using a FMIC as its not as it left the factory, they can get pulled on TUV checks.
The snow plow effect is a fun one, you would still need to keep an eye on water temps.
...Another benefit over the FMIC route is you wont blow any hoses off and drag crap into the inlet, which happens all the time on FMIC kits...
Well I've had a Hyperflow Monster FMIC fitted since Nov 2011, with no such issues.
The only hose that would blow off was the one directly off the turbo (a very common thing)... But a Murray Constant Tension clamp has put paid to that.
05 July 2016, 02:13 PM
