mickeymouse

Been looking into this for what seems like ages now!!

Do you get huge lag with a front mount intercooler?? It would seem so.. But why?? Because of the longer pipe work??


Is it a lot of lag?

What ways can I overcome this lag?

Thanks.

RS_Matt

Think it's negligible in most cases, 200-300rpm?

I think it's potential for greater chance of boost leaks that has put me off and the fact you only really need them for 400bhp+ or track use.

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

no more lag if a decent make and mapped properly.
only downside in my opinion is they are difficult to hide and I prefer the OEM look.

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

not much point for you as you haven't remapped the car so any mods won't make any difference towards performance.

RS_Matt

News to me, thought my car has had 5 remaps to date with another booked in on the 2nd. As you know.

Reshard1977

iTrader: (17)

I had a japspeed FMIC on my previous Scooby, and that had a lot of lag. Although, that was mapped by Racedynamix.

If the car was mapped by someone else would that have got rid of the lag? Or are the japspeed coolers just not that great?

I see a lot of people with the HDI kits, do they have minimal lag?

bighead

iTrader: (1)

all depends on the pipe work of the front mount ......cant go wrong with HKS, APS etc etc

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there

Yes with FMIC you still have lag,that's due the longer pipework,but too due the cores how are made,some using bar plate and some using bar fin

Some people rotating the inlet manifold and shortening the pipework and this should helps with the lag

Japspeed FMIC are not bad FMIC,this really depends on the setup,turbo etc,we are run this FMIC on our 2.1L wagon which has been OK,but with 2.35L we are switched to HDI(Hybrid)


You still can choose TMIC,please speak with Chevron about the their TMIC



Thanks,Jura

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

The gains you see will outweigh the tiny added bit of lag you may get. But as Tubs said, using a decent branded cooler and decent mapper then you'll see very little difference when going front mount.
Japspeed are sh1te imo and i don't like the HDI kits because of how the pipework runs. Could never understand why they would design it with the pipe you want to keep as cold as possible going directly above the hottest part in the bay.

People on here don't recommend you go front mount until 400 bhp, I personally think that's rubbish. A front mount is more efficient at cooling so at any power level that is a positive. Add some good quality heat wrap to all the pipework and you're onto a winner.


Spotted this a totb a couple of years back. The owner regularly praised the top mounts on here......

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

Rotating your inlet sounds all fine and dandy but it's really not worth the hassle.

A decent front mount and map will see extra power as it's more efficient than a top mount

N_Scooby

iTrader: (2)

More like 300bhp+ on a Classic unless you stick on a fugly big scoop and even then you will not get near 400bhp.

neil-h

Thing is a front mount will also help stabilise inlet temperatures. If your sat still for any period of time you're going to get some monster heat soak on the top mount. Where as a front mount 'should' be less prone to it.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

The pic was joke by the owner for the benefit of tidgy from what I remember of the thread.

I've just switched from a tmic to a fmic, no difference in spool or lag and its faster for longer due to lower inlet temps

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

no it wasn't at all, its John felsteads car I believe and he was using the blower before every run at last years totb

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

https://www.scoobynet.com/981289-my-totb-pics-2.html

fat-thomas

iTrader: (4)

he did it before every run last year, he may claim it was a wind up,it may have been. but he used the blower every time just before the run as I watched it several times.

scooby87

iTrader: (5)

I wonder what the actual differences are with a normal fmic to a rotated one.

Someone should do a test like they used too in the old days on scoobynet...

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

Interesting. Been considering going front mount next too. The new japspeed front mount kits are the better bar & plate style too I believe. I have been looking at these from 2fast2cool2 who sells them for some time.

Just not sure it's worth the hassle at only 350bhp in my every day driver.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

It certainly wasn't a joke Banny....
I too watched him doing it numerous times.

mickeymouse

Thank you all for your comments.. Very much appreciated.

To answer a few of the comments...

It will be fitted to a black hawkeye (2.5 that is forged with pistons, rods, head bolts, gaskets etc.. Before anyone says !!)

It will most likely be a Perrin fmic in black.. So it should be almost invisible..

Be looking for around 450bhp obviously with supporting mods..

Was just concerend that it would be real laggy, but after reading you guys comments it doesn't appear to be the case.

Thank you

Paben

iTrader: (5)

Of course a turbo upgrade from standard is a definite requirement or the extra pipework of a FMIC will just make the car very laggy and add nothing in performance. An MD321H or better will justify a FMIC, anything less and the turbo will probably be struggling.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

I personally think the benefits outweigh the negatives, lag is foreplay anyway. Go buy an R32 golf if you want throttle response. I don't feel any difference in lag was notable, certainly the stronger feeling of the car negates that anyway. I'm very sensitive to how my car reacts to temperature variations and in the same way you get that stronger feeling when the weather is cooler the front mount is helping in a similar way.

Some people aren't that sensitive and might not notice but to me I'm always feeling how the engine is running. I've always been very mechanically sympathetic. Best change I felt was on my old pulsar gti-r, they have a huge interwarmer soaking up the heat of the engine, put a FMIC on that and it was a very noticeable improvement. I've only fitted a FMIC to one of my imprezas, a type r with a 20g and a 2.5 inversion but I did the whole lot in one go, so couldn't exactly do a back to back lol

Saying that, only thing stopping me on my current car (Sti v6) is not wanting to cut the bumper and mess around with an original car.

Legacyb4-Dan

iTrader: (1)

Im actually considering going from a Turboxs FMIC to a Process West TMIC, im running a vf36 and car will be staying under 400bhp so for daily driver, insurance, safety etc i think a tmic is better suited to my needs. the amount of time a week i get to put the foot done is minimal so for the better reliabilty of a top mount and stealthier look, ill think ill order one up and see how does compared to the FMIC

blackhawk56

iTrader: (1)

Ran japspeed fmic up to 590 horsepower on my first 2.35 and it performed brilliant Imo for road car for all the hassle I would just stick with tmic I had my fmic pipework shortened on reverse inlet and was still laggy or maybe it was the gt37 lol

edsel

iTrader: (2)

I'm running a HDI on a 96 classic. As we all know the slanty standard TMIC isnt much cop. I really wanted to upgrade the top mount but lack of fabrication skill and not wanting a big scoop forced my hand.
Laggy? Not so much as you'd notice. Im running a top entry TD05 16G with a harvey up pipe and later model sti heads, it spools up nicely at around 3.5k.

The big plus point for me is access to the engine bay compared to a standard car. As a compulsive "fiddler" removing a couple of clamps and a bit of pipework allows access to most of the engine. Having felt now hot the IC pipes get even when wrapped, I'm happy the FMIC was the right choice. A top mount would be getting cooked at idle speeds

The cons: Ive had issues with the silicone joiners blowing off under boost despite using the best clamps and silicone I can buy. At the moment I have two mikalor clamps on each side of one joint above the turbo. Not pretty but it works.
FMIC cores start to look tatty pretty quick when they have a few bent fins bent too. Im not too sure on the new age cars but making a neat job of cutting the bumper takes some skill.
Again, not too sure on the new age cars but fitting recirc BOV on a classic with fmic takes some imagination and improvisation.

Would I hack up a nice clean road car to fit a Front mount? Probably not, if it was a ropey track day toy then yes.

johnfelstead

It was a **** take chaps, if I wanted to kill heat soak I wouldn't use a petrol leaf blower like that, I'd use the ones we used on the F1 cars I run, which we bought especially for the cars we just ran out in Singapore. With those there is very little heat from the leaf blower engine and a higher air flow than that thing I had Fred lumping around.

During a sprint event the best way you reduce heat soak is to use a temporary fan on the TMIC when back in the pits, which brings the charge temp down to ambient pre a run. My charge temps can be lower than the FMIC car I help with at the events when you look at the logs.

Just like the last two years, a TMIC car is doing extremely well in the 22B sprint series. Going into the last round which is this weekend I am currently leading the S2 class and lying 2nd overall in the championship. This is using my 12K mile/year daily driven car against many sprint specials. I am up against S2 cars with more than 200BHP more than I have, yet am beating them on tracks where throttle response can play a good part. This weekend will be difficult to win at as its a fast circuit, but it should be a close contest.

Tidgy talks about FMIC as though they don't suffer heat soak, they do, you have them sat next to the water radiator which is circa 90 degrees, which radiates heat into a FMIC when stationary.

The main issue with the TMIC I use is the cost, and I understand that, but don't let that colour your view of how good a TMIC setup is for most people at the levels of power they have available.

Tidgy

Funny how you only claimed it was a **** take after it got posted up, tbh i think your just using that as an excuse for being caught opely showing how flawed yoru car is.

But your car was still laggy john compared to mine even with your £2000 top mount ,,,, hahaha

all the actual testing done by Harvey RIP and various other that over 300 horse you start to struggle with heat on a top mount, especialy in realy world environments where you tend to be start stop etc, my hawk had to be backed off cos of heat when it hit high 300's.

Not only that but the air flow baloons up over the bonnet. Wind tunnels have proved that.

Do front mount suffer from heat from rad? to some extent, but heat rises (right where the top mount is), where as the fan and movement pulls the heat back away from from the front mount. so the heat soak to a front mount will be vey limited, especialy compared to a top mount.

Reshard1977

iTrader: (17)

**** take aside, how does a FMIC compare to water injection? All the benefits, none of the cons?

Tidgy

water injection is weight and can run out.

Apostle

I have a Grimmspeed tmi on a newly built 2.35. Only have a relatively small Blouch 2.5 XTr Dominator turbo, but pulls 474bhp @1.7 bar.

For a road car it is amazing....

At the op's level of tune I think he should consider all the options. Some USA guys are running these Grimmspeed units with supposedly 500+whp