P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Some of you will know that i have the APS FMIC on my car, and have for a while now.

Well after spending last Sunday taking the exhaust manifold off to cure a leak, the APS kit really anoid me where it goes between the chasis and the head on the passenger side.

On Friday of last week, i was following a wagon which went over a bump in the road, and drop a lot of chalkstone, most hitting my FMIC and bonnet.

After spending yesterday with the front bumper off trying to trace to source why my headlamp washers dont work, i started looking in more detail at the route the pipes take.

Few chaffing marks are apearing now on the pipes, not the ones that go under the car, but mainly the one that goes from the drivers wing accroos the turbo and to the inlet manifold.

So i am now seriously thinking of ditching the pipes and making/having made, some new pipes with a new route to the intercooler, which has proved its strength lately.

Few questions;-

What material would be best for the pipes?
Mild steel/stainless or Ally (like David Wallis')

For bends is it best to have them bent? use samco hosing? or cut and weld?

Would the pipes be best coating in a heat resitant paint?

Which route would you recommend, as i have my own ideas

Thanks in anticipation of your thoughts:S, but for each reply you make, can you imagine me asking "Why?" back

Steven

David_Wallis

Thin walled stainless or mild steel.. Have it bent by exhaust place and use some of my samco's / my tig welder for the joins.. Pipe route would be as short and as straight as possible..

Ceramic coat the pipes? Expensive.. or wrap with exhaust wrap on the outlet side?

David

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Would something like cailper paint or hammerite work? Sounds stupid i know, one of my monday morning stupidities, as that is supposed to be heat resitant?

I guess i would have to make a template from wleding 1st, for the to be able to bend to correct shape.

I was thinking of butchering the APS kit, but do not want to for some reason, money i think

Steven

David_Wallis

no point painting it.. heat resistant maybe.. heat proof / reflective no..

Tony Law can bend tube from a wire profile..

so get a lenth of 15mm copper, bend it to where you want the centre of the pipe.. and jobs a good un...

Cut some 2.5" or whatever dia. circles of mdf or wood.. drill a 15 mm hole in the middle and slide these on the tube, then use these to check for clearance in the tight spots..

David

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Star man, will do that when i next have time.

Any more thoughts, anyone?

David_Wallis

top

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Surely there are some more theories out there?

carlos_hiraoka

a rought sketch might be a good idea to know what route you are thinking for the new piping. I have an Apexi FMIC and the passenger side piping (which would be the drivers side on LHD cars) is fine, but I really don't like the piping on the driver side which I am modifying ..... I will try to post a few pics later, hopefully someone may come with a better idea (without the need to turn the inlet manifold).

Andy.F

Steven

From a heat management point of view I think you want different materials in different places.
From the turbo discharge to the intercooler use aluminium, this will allow maximum heat dissapation from the hot pipework.
After the intercooler use stainless steel and/or silicone pipework to minimise heat pick up to the cooled charge air en route back to the throttle body.

My preferred route (assuming std turbo position and rear throttle body) is rotate compressor discharge 180 degrees and take the discharge pipe out towards the strut, turn forwards along the r/h cylinder head and straight on between the headlight and radiator to the intercooler (needs a bit more room creating ) Out of the upside down intercooler on the l/h side, same route between the headlight and radiator, then a loop back to the throttle body.

You could be a bit more creative with the turbo position though and make things even more compact A bit specialist fabrication is needed though............Daaaaviiiiid..

Andy

T-uk

andy,

would your route work with a later car with ABS?

Andy.F

Not sure John ? What's the gap like between the ABS module and the heads ?

carlos_hiraoka

Andy, can u post some pics of what does your intercooler piping look like ?

Andy.F

Carlos

This is not my route, just how I would do it if I was to start again within the confines mentioned.

If I had a clean sheet things would be waaaaay different

Andy

[Edited by Andy.F - 3/3/2003 8:56:58 PM]

carlos_hiraoka

more pics of the piping .....

carlos_hiraoka

the "other side" of the piping, which is not exactly smooth .....

carlos_hiraoka

I am considering re-routing it through here :



but even if it may seem to be better, actually I the distance that air will have to travel will be only a "little" shorter

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

Carlos,
You cannot go that route if you plan on haveing a manifold on later.

Steven,
I have been thinking about the route between the headlamp and the radiator,but i don´t think it will work with that IC!.
The IC that could be used to do that will have to sitting up against the radiator like the pace set.

Skassa

ptholt

I also have an aps front mount and im not going to bang my drum on my thoughts of there pipework (again).

Instead i'm actually looking at getting a set of hks pipework modified to fit the aps end cans, the route you've shown looks very similar to the hks route (drivers side maybe a little shorter).

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Sorry should have said my suggestion comes up between the radiator and the front of the engine.

David_Wallis

I had thoughts on this but forgotten what I was going to post..

And I dont mind helping you steven

andy didnt mean rotate the turbo.. he meant rotate the inlet cover on the turbo..

David

David_Wallis

FO

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Anymore ideas?

Can you remember what you were thinking of posting

Steven

tweenierob

This is how mine started off..
Bit different now though..

Like the idea of rotating the compressor housing... HHmmmmmm


This is the boost pipe into the I/C

The pipe from the turbo

Left hand pipe to I/C

Left hand boost pipe

Top of engine bay

Right hand side of I/C

Left hand side of
I/C
Another engine bay shot

In and out of manifold

Left hand boost pipe

Front of intercooler

Front of car

Denmark

iTrader: (2)

That must be the shortest it can be without turning the inletmanifold around.
How is the diff vs.OE(lag)?

What have you changed?

Skassa

tweenierob

Some of the Hoses have changed, i had to use some pulsar hoses at first which were bent awkwardly, these have been changed for silicone pipes now which flow smoother and are not kinked at all.
I have also wrapped the boost pipe above the head/turbo to try and cut down heatsoak.
To be honest i have not noticed any more lag over teh top mount o.e. i/c, however.. the car seems more torquey lower down which may hide some of the lag perhaps???

I think i am going to try rotating the compressor housing and run the circuit in reverse, that way the charge from the i/c to the inlet wont run over the turbo etc..

I would also really like to rotate the turbo itself but that is something for the future...


Rob

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

That looks really good Rob, got me thinking now

Stupidly, never thought of moving the radiator back, how many times did i see Davids car before it was finished.

Cheers

Steven

carlos_hiraoka

Has Rob actually moved the radiator

tweenierob

Yeah, i had to extend the radiator top mounts to bring the rad back a bit at the top, the bottom mounts were retained in the same place.

Rob

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Bear in mind that Robs is a narrower intercooler so it makes it easier to feed through the gap between the headlights.

Steven

carlos_hiraoka

I will let u know if it fits .....