RJMS

iTrader: (2)

It's about time that I replaced my aging Accord Type R but I am really struggling to come up with an alternative. In desperation I thought I'd ask the Scoobynet masses

Wants;

Reasonable performance and handling probably around 200 BHP.
Ability to transport 4 adults + luggage on long trips relatively economically.
Able to cope with lots of shortish 4-5 miles journeys (so probably not a diesel)
Be reliable.
Not be too shouty - I have my Subaru for that.
Ideally a hatchback/estate.
Have a bit (preferably a lot) of "character".

Budget is about £10K ish - I have tried a Civic Type R which is the obvious choice but the 3 doors, stupid rear visibility and just general "pointiness" made me think that it may not be what I am after.

So M3, S4 or maybe Focus ST - all possible and probably not too bad at the "long trips relatively economically" thing (this is compared with my MY03 JDM Sti - so all relative!) any other thoughts - may heart says not a turbo as I have one and having been bought up on Alfas I do like a decent NA engine. I would consider a 159 but having owned nothing but a Subaru and Honda in the last few years I am concerned about the reliability factor with an Alfa - they are lovely cars but I really don't need the hassle of constant problems.

Does such a car exist or can anyone suggest some half decent suggestions?

Thanks

Fantom

Save yourself £5k and get a Mondeo ST220
Mine has done almost 59k now and still drives like new. It cruises around effortlessly with a nice bit of power when I want it.
Interior is very nice, lovely stereo, heated recaro leather seats etc
Nice styling without drawing too much attention.
Plenty of room inside and a massive boot

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Nice choice, I'd thought about one of these before - and it certainly seems to tick a lot of the boxes, the only thing is I do tend to keep my cars for a while
and these are all getting on a bit now. Never driven one but they do sound good, maybe have to see if I can blag a test drive in a local one, I might be convinced!

SRSport

Accord Euro R?

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Yes I saw that one - but ideally I want something with low hassle factor - i.e. UK Model and standard to make insurance nice and easy to arrange. Not sure I want a white car either.

I do realise I'm being quite fussy here

SRSport

That Euro R is really nagging me. I need someone to buy it as I am very tempted...and its close to me as well.

SRSport

240bhp, 4 doors, 5 seats

Its got an economical German engine - strong point without German weaknesses such as reliability in all other areas. You can get the 200bhp version for the same price and it should be newer with lower milage but without any gains in economy, tax, etc so I wouldnt bother.

ChrisB

Octavia vRS petrol? Quite rare compared to the diesel version but there are a few options on Autotrader for around £10k

Ash170990

iTrader: (1)

Mk1 Focus RS... pick them up well within your budget, with around 50-60k on them, loads still going strong over 120k as long as there looked after well... dont think youll get much more fun out of a car for that price

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

I think I'll have to have a look at the Seat/Skoda - engine does sound good in theory (not sure what it's like in practice!) but I was trying to stay away from a turbo but then again they could both be remapped (I was also going to stay away from modifications too ) The Skoda looks all out of proportion in pictures, too high, like it's on stilts but I do recall thinking that they look OK on the road. One other point that I failed to mention - whatever I buy must have quite stiff suspension, my wife has got so used stiffly suspended cars hat she now gets car sick in anything that is too softly sprung. The Civic Type R was OK in that respect I suppose any remotely sporty car probably has suspension upgrades available if it is too soft (more modifications )

I hadn't considered the Mk1 RS but as you say there are quite a few about within budget but then they have the same problem as the ST220 only more so - just age

Ash170990

iTrader: (1)

To be fair though, with anything as long as its been looked after age doesnt matter....

But if you do want something newer, these new TSI engines from VW seem to go well, so new golf, leon etc...

gregwill

iTrader: (1)

how about something like this bud!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifie...dition/1201206

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Nice one - there's an approved used one in my preferred colour very local to me. Will definitely have a look at this. I had considered the 6 MPS but once again they are getting a little bit older and would really be just a slightly more sane version of my Scooby

SRSport

They are nice but the tax is off putting.


EFA


Im still keen on the Leon Cupra. One criticism is the stiff suspension...

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Seat Leon Cupra r. For your budget you'll get a low mile minter,

1.8t 225bhp engine, very tuneable and reliable. Remap will make 270bhp
5door, good ride, 6speed box,brembos quicker steering rack and revised suspension.

Great cars and really good round town, nice and nippy

SRSport

Why go for the old one when you can get a younger mk2 Cupra with 240bhp?

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Could do i suppose, not a massive fan of the mk2 tbh

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

Mk2 does seem to be a bit out of budget and I definitely think that Mk 1 looks nicer. I'm going to have to look a bit more closely at the earlier ones.

SRSport

The one I quoted was £9000.

I think the mk1 was far nicer in its day compared to how the mk2 looks now, but time has aged it and it seem dated and old in comparison.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Too an extent. But having driven both the mk2 just does t compare.

SRSport

Fair enough. Any idea how it compares to the Civic Type R of the same age for driving - not the new overweight one. For me the power would be too close to make me chose the Seat over the Honda. The mk2 with 240bhp is a more appealing prospect.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Haha having drive a type r the good one no comparison,

I cannot understand the point in having power kick in at 5000rpm plus, I actually tested when the power came in, in 2nd your over 40mph which means in reality your going over the limit for normal roads, your having to ring it's neck.

The lcr power kicks in around 2500 rpm and pulls to the red line, tails off around 5500rpm.

Don't forget the lcr has more bhp and torque , better brakes 5dr too.

All I can say is try one. I actually prefer them to the 2.0 impreza so much more drivable. Add a £300 remap and your at 270bhp with a car that will do 155mph too.

People diss them because there a seat when in reality it's just a 2wd Audi s3.

I've had 5 of them lol. And 4 scoobs. There really reliable and the common faults they have are quick fixes.

SRSport

The fact that they are a Seat doesnt bother me when you are looking at power in the mid 200s, in fact knowing you have a S3 engine underneath is quite cool. I was looking at the reliability index and the Leon came out really low but the owners reviews rated it highly...go figure.

RJMS

iTrader: (2)

I do like the way that the Type R's deliver power - as I mentioned before I've had numerous Alfas, properly tuned 1.7 flat fours and V6 24V which all need revving so I don't actually mind that, I don't have any real power in the Accord until 4500 rpm and VTEC doesn't activate until 5,800 but from there until 8,000 it's brilliant. I actually quite like it, if you're poottling around it's all very quiet and civilized (well relatively) and if you want to go for it, well it's different I was disappointed with the Civic in this respect - much less obvious transition into VTEC.

I just don't think that any modern turbo car's power characteristics are going to be ultimately really to my taste but I have to accept that things have moved on and I do really need something relatively modern and practical for now, otherwise I'd be after a DC2 Integra or possibly getting my Alfa tuning mate to build/tune me an engine to my taste.

Anyway that's all by the by, what exactly don't you like about the Mk2 Leon? It seems to get pretty good write ups and the Mk1s are all getting on a bit now. I was also getting confused my Cupras and Cupra R's mixed up earlier which didn't help

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Well in terms of the mk1

You really need to know the differences.

They made the big std Leon up to the Cupra then introduced the Cupra r

The Cupra r features

The s3 engine
Quicker steering rack
Revised suspension
Stiffer bushes
Stronger wishbones
Different exhaust
Brembos
6 speed box
Custom interior
And prob a few things I've forgot.

In terms of faults. The common ones are

Door seals leak, just a case of revealing
The coil packs can go. There 25 each
Macs can go there 70

It's a very solid car, they feel planted and smooth, the steering if very precise. Heavier than a scoob,

The mk2 I drove have been the Cupra and the k1
Both have been mapped,

The steering is very light, brakes feel just as good, they map to the Sam power, the interior feels cheaper though,

The k1 was stage two with over 330bho and was an animal, but the light steering made it feel twitchy haha.

The only way you'll know is to drive them

SRSport

With the leaking door seal what do you mean by a case of revealing?

The mk2 Cupra seems a far more capable car than the mk1 version. The mk2 Cupra R with the full BTCC kit on would be awesome but as you say well out of budget.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Re sealing dam auto correct.

The k1 was awesome but its more twice the price lol.

SRSport

This K1 looks stunning. Its only a FR though. I would prefer to buy a new, lower milage standard Cupra for the same money. You could always add the kit afterwards.

cuprajake

iTrader: (11)

Different turbo I believe.

SRSport

I think the Cupra has stronger heads, pistons, rods and block as well as a better turbo which is why I would say buy a standard Cupra and use the money saved to get the K1 kit as it will much cheaper that way and have a far better car.

The more I think about it the more I think the standard Cupra is a bargain (and talking myself into buying one). The Cupra R is 265bhp but its pretty much only a remap that takes it there. For the price difference it really isnt worth it. It may have fancy seats and a larger intercooler but the intercooler is obscured by other parts anyway so really doesnt make much difference. There seems to be a far larger difference between the mk1 Cupra and R than there is between the mk2 versions.

Anyway we're turning this into a Seat Leon Cupra thread rather than helping the OP with his dilemma, apologies RJMS.