Cheap Track car suggestions :D
02 April 2013, 02:44 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: n/a
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheap Track car suggestions :D
1: cheap as poss - max £1000
2: road legal
what are the recommendations?
2: road legal
what are the recommendations?
Last edited by eggy790; 02 April 2013 at 02:50 PM.
02 April 2013, 03:04 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: n/a
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i like the sound of the saxo vts/106 gti and clio 172.. what do these weigh and how light can you get them down to? servicing parts cheap? tyres brakes? etc?
cant really see myself in an mx5 or mg though
cant really see myself in an mx5 or mg though
02 April 2013, 03:12 PM
#5
Standard Saxo/106 is about 930kg, easily get that under 900 without much hard work at all and parts are as cheap as any other mass produced small hatchback. Build quality is OK, feel a bit tin-can like but then they were cheap french cars to begin with 
They handle like go-karts, so plenty of fun to be had even with only 120bhp.
They handle like go-karts, so plenty of fun to be had even with only 120bhp.
Trending Topics
02 April 2013, 03:33 PM
#8
Mx5 will always be more fun than any eurobox in my opinion, stripped out, couple of cheap glass buckets and harnesses, roof mech swapped for cheap glass hardtop.... winner!
Or, mk1 or mk3 mr2 (mk3 mr2's are very kart like!) avoid mk2's though!
Or, mk1 or mk3 mr2 (mk3 mr2's are very kart like!) avoid mk2's though!
02 April 2013, 03:49 PM
#10
I agree, I'd have an MX5 over the Saxo/106 if it were my choice - not sure what the costs are like getting a soft-top track safe though, I'd not want to risk one without a good cage!
02 April 2013, 04:05 PM
#11
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: n/a
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
cheers guys, im swaying more towards ph1 172 as i had one before and i know them more than others so will be easier to set it up and get it back to how i want.
02 April 2013, 04:24 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My vote is VTS - on track it would be every bit as fun as an MX5, if not more so. In that environment it is as good as RWD since you can put the rear out at will with a slight lift on entry. You'd maybe want to weld a half cage in though as the 106/Saxo are awful in a crash and I personally wouldn't want to roll one through a gravel trap!
02 April 2013, 04:27 PM
#16
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My vote is VTS - on track it would be every bit as fun as an MX5, if not more so. In that environment it is as good as RWD since you can put the rear out at will with a slight lift on entry. You'd maybe want to weld a half cage in though as the 106/Saxo are awful in a crash and I personally wouldn't want to roll one through a gravel trap!
Last edited by scooby1929; 02 April 2013 at 04:31 PM.
02 April 2013, 04:33 PM
#17
Saxo boy .... im guessing from your name your a bit biased .... and deluded!
Track cars arent about being the fastest, theyre just about having the most fun!
A stripped out volvo 740 is more fun that ANY golf/pug/corsa etc .... and definately alot more fun than a saxo.
.... edit as above it sounds like im saying a saxo vts is fast! hahaha
Track cars arent about being the fastest, theyre just about having the most fun!
A stripped out volvo 740 is more fun that ANY golf/pug/corsa etc .... and definately alot more fun than a saxo.
.... edit as above it sounds like im saying a saxo vts is fast! hahaha
02 April 2013, 04:59 PM
#18
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1. Haven't owned a VTS in 12 years
2. Have owned 2x Scoob's, 1x Honda S2000, 1x Ford Puma, 1x Ford ST220, 1x Seat Leon FR + others non-mentionables
3. Have driven 911 Turbo, LS3 Vette, 400bhp RX7, M3, Mk2 Exige, Sagaris, yadda-yadda.
4. Despite that, Saxo/106 is still a world of fun. Not massively quick these days but an absolute hoot to throw around
5. Fail to see where I am deluded?
I simply made a recommendation to OP. That recommendation is largely based on the fact that VTS's are cheap as chips to buy and run. They are basically identical to the much loved 106 GTI but are far cheaper due to the double chevrons it wears up front.
MX5 is a good shout and a somewhat obvious choice. Unless you plan on drifting every corner (surely you'll be flagged off?) then I'd expect the balance of a VTS would be more rewarding; on the absolute limit there is about 5cm of throttle travel between oversteer and spinning out and every millimetre within that range allows you to completely adjust the attitude of the car.
2. Have owned 2x Scoob's, 1x Honda S2000, 1x Ford Puma, 1x Ford ST220, 1x Seat Leon FR + others non-mentionables
3. Have driven 911 Turbo, LS3 Vette, 400bhp RX7, M3, Mk2 Exige, Sagaris, yadda-yadda.
4. Despite that, Saxo/106 is still a world of fun. Not massively quick these days but an absolute hoot to throw around
5. Fail to see where I am deluded?
I simply made a recommendation to OP. That recommendation is largely based on the fact that VTS's are cheap as chips to buy and run. They are basically identical to the much loved 106 GTI but are far cheaper due to the double chevrons it wears up front.
MX5 is a good shout and a somewhat obvious choice. Unless you plan on drifting every corner (surely you'll be flagged off?) then I'd expect the balance of a VTS would be more rewarding; on the absolute limit there is about 5cm of throttle travel between oversteer and spinning out and every millimetre within that range allows you to completely adjust the attitude of the car.
02 April 2013, 05:02 PM
#19
In a FWD car you're asking the front wheels to drag the car forward and also point it in the right direction, which automatically puts more strain on their battle for grip. RWD wins through the laws of basic physics. That said the Saxo I had handled amazingly and although I never tracked it I think it would have been pretty good (comparatively speaking).
As for a Saxo being fast, take a look at this BHP/Tonne list - A Saxo VTS has 128bhp/tonne... I think you'll be surprised what other cars it sits along side. Its no hypercar, but its quick enough to be plenty of fun.
I'd still have the MX5.
As for a Saxo being fast, take a look at this BHP/Tonne list - A Saxo VTS has 128bhp/tonne... I think you'll be surprised what other cars it sits along side. Its no hypercar, but its quick enough to be plenty of fun.
I'd still have the MX5.
02 April 2013, 05:11 PM
#21
Apologies, the deluded comment was a bit harsh! Everyones entitled to theyre opinion!
And your right, drifting every corner is only going to see you regularly black flagged and very unhappy with the lack of track time for your cash!
However, rear drive isnt always about drifting, its about handling balance and how a car deals with an apex! Yes, a front wheel drive car can have turn in oversteer, but it will never have the mid corner handling balance of a rear wheel drive as the same action of using the throttle to transfer weight also induces a change in the slip angle of the driven wheels and induces understeer. Dynamically, its just the way it is.
To a certain extent non dccd scoobs suffer the same symptom, in that the transition out of steady state handling effect the steered wheels grip. The usual trick is to wind on a bit more lock and use the front to drag the car out, rbut this isnt ever as satisfying as balancing the limit of grip of the driven wheels with the slip angle of the steered wheels at the front.
And your right, drifting every corner is only going to see you regularly black flagged and very unhappy with the lack of track time for your cash!
However, rear drive isnt always about drifting, its about handling balance and how a car deals with an apex! Yes, a front wheel drive car can have turn in oversteer, but it will never have the mid corner handling balance of a rear wheel drive as the same action of using the throttle to transfer weight also induces a change in the slip angle of the driven wheels and induces understeer. Dynamically, its just the way it is.
To a certain extent non dccd scoobs suffer the same symptom, in that the transition out of steady state handling effect the steered wheels grip. The usual trick is to wind on a bit more lock and use the front to drag the car out, rbut this isnt ever as satisfying as balancing the limit of grip of the driven wheels with the slip angle of the steered wheels at the front.
Last edited by legacy_gtb; 02 April 2013 at 05:18 PM.
02 April 2013, 05:23 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Near milton keynes
Posts: 840
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saxo boy .... im guessing from your name your a bit biased .... and deluded!
Track cars arent about being the fastest, theyre just about having the most fun!
A stripped out volvo 740 is more fun that ANY golf/pug/corsa etc .... and definately alot more fun than a saxo.
.... edit as above it sounds like im saying a saxo vts is fast! hahaha
Track cars arent about being the fastest, theyre just about having the most fun!
A stripped out volvo 740 is more fun that ANY golf/pug/corsa etc .... and definately alot more fun than a saxo.
.... edit as above it sounds like im saying a saxo vts is fast! hahaha
and everyone keeps saying RWD is more fun, makes no difference on a proper track day, if you start drifiting you will get black flagged..... and wheres the fun in that?
FWD for a cheap track toy cause you can push them to their limits and then past without a care....
02 April 2013, 05:35 PM
#24
My 172 track car is for sale dude. Had a fair bit of interest but 2 people who've pm'd me have had a full inbox so can't reply, crazy!!
https://www.scoobynet.com/other-marq...track-car.html
https://www.scoobynet.com/other-marq...track-car.html
02 April 2013, 05:35 PM
#25
I was looking into getting the Clio 172/182 but changed my mind and got a mx5 1.8RS as the I was not prepared to rely on the clios for reliability and constant faults, plus fwd is not a drivers car IMO.
You can get a mx5 with torsen LSD etc, yes they look rubbish in standard form but a little money thrown at it and they look ok, set up right they are wicked handling, it's not all about drifting (depends on how it set up for) people weld the diff for drifting and have the slammed look which spoils the drive.
And also get it turbod like I'm doing, (power to weight ratio will scare a lot of toys)
Here's mine
Also super reliable and can take a constant thrashing.
You can get a mx5 with torsen LSD etc, yes they look rubbish in standard form but a little money thrown at it and they look ok, set up right they are wicked handling, it's not all about drifting (depends on how it set up for) people weld the diff for drifting and have the slammed look which spoils the drive.
And also get it turbod like I'm doing, (power to weight ratio will scare a lot of toys)
Here's mine
Also super reliable and can take a constant thrashing.
Last edited by bustaMOVEs; 02 April 2013 at 05:45 PM.
That cage looks like it was fitted with a hammer
02 April 2013, 07:40 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (20)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: n/a
Posts: 5,304
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
im liking that busta, what sort of prices are the turbo conversions? i was contemplating a 172 after seeing one on ebay cheap, with rear end damage, but the last few mins has made it rocket, so ill pass on that one atm
02 April 2013, 08:15 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 14,629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As regards RWD vs FWD I agree in general with everything that has been said. However, it's worth remembering that the VTS is lightweight and doesn't really have the power to corrupt the front end in the first place. Compared to my S2000, for example, you'd throw it into a corner at some stupid speed, cling on for dear life and by the time you even started to worry about handling balance you'd gone through the apex with a rear wheel cocked desperately needing full throttle to avoid a spin. I don't care who you are, that's fun, especially in an environment where you are less likely to kill yourself/someone else if you get it a little wrong. The S2000 on the other hand went in slower, had to be balanced and then getting back on the throttle was down to timing. Lots of fun and a great challenge, but in a completely different way.
It's their ability to turn in at stupid speeds and maintain that momentum throughout a turn that sets the best FWD hatches apart. I doubt modern day hatches are half as much fun despite being far faster in every area. F*ck revoknuckles, stick em' in at some stupid speed and hold on for dear life until the road straightens up again
Motoring magazines often liken such hot hatches of old to go-karts. If you think about it though, when you are driving karts for fun (i.e. not trying to beat you mates) you nearly always revert to turning in too fast, trailing the throttle and sliding through the corner. Despite karts being RWD, driven in this way it's actually a moot point. Old world hot-hatches are the same IMHO - light and chuckable.
OP is considering a MK1 172. I've never driven one in anger but I'd imagine they are much like the hatches of old so probably a decent choice.
It's their ability to turn in at stupid speeds and maintain that momentum throughout a turn that sets the best FWD hatches apart. I doubt modern day hatches are half as much fun despite being far faster in every area. F*ck revoknuckles, stick em' in at some stupid speed and hold on for dear life until the road straightens up again
Motoring magazines often liken such hot hatches of old to go-karts. If you think about it though, when you are driving karts for fun (i.e. not trying to beat you mates) you nearly always revert to turning in too fast, trailing the throttle and sliding through the corner. Despite karts being RWD, driven in this way it's actually a moot point. Old world hot-hatches are the same IMHO - light and chuckable.
OP is considering a MK1 172. I've never driven one in anger but I'd imagine they are much like the hatches of old so probably a decent choice.