Graz

It was all going so well but yesterday whilst heading for work got to the motorway slip and it was clear so I thought cool lets rapidly get up to speed with the traffic on the motorway About 2/3rds throttle, start to get a bit of turbo push then thud.... no power whatsoever. Coast to a halt on the hard shoulder at the end of the slip and the engine is completely cut.

Having got over the initial shock of it happening I took the key module out, stuck it back in, pressed the starter button and it fired straight away. Gingerly joined the motorway and pootled along for a bit then opened up the throttle a bit, bang same again

After that using the manual override on the box I did mange to get it on boost and gave it a bit of an Italian tune, got to work got on with my morning, Tried it again at lunchtime (quite country road this time so no motorway dramas) still doing it.

Booked into main stealers tomorrow, got a years warranty cover so not a problem, but typically off on holiday to Scotland for a fortnight on Saturday. Was looking forward to giving the BM a proper run out but now might end up going in the Wife's car if they can't sort it tomorrow.

Any thoughts? No warnings up on the dash. Hopefully the ECU has logged something that will point them to the issue.

Hope this is just a minor glitch in 5 series ownership.

bighead

iTrader: (1)

how old is the car......... is it new ?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Usually what causes these engines to shut down is if the ECU detects the pressure in the fuel rail is too low. Its a fail safe as fuel starvation wrecks the high pressure pump.

Now what causes the low pressure? Lots of things, but a dodgy injector(s) leaking back through the spill pipes is the most likely.

I wouldn't drive the car too far or without any phone/breakdown cover handy as if a injector totally fails (which it can) the engine won't run at all.

If it is a injector its not too much work to swap. Done a few myself on various common rail BMs.

Matteeboy

Turbo and intercooler pipes are prone to leakage which wouldn't help. Did both of mine pronto. One turbo pipe was stupidly routed so had frayed.

Hopefully not a blown turbo!!

Graz

Not a new car, approved used late 2008 registered and a mere 28,000 on the clock 2k of which has been done by me. Only had it since just before Christmas.

Doesn't seem to be a blown turbo as I could get it on boost by getting the revs up first using manual mode on the box to shift down then going for it. Oh well it's in today and hopefully they'll sort it. Should know by lunchtime.

Have breakdown cover, years worth of BMW assist thrown in with it but if they can't say for definite they've sorted it then I'm not sure taking it to Scotland is wise. Mobile phone signal could be a bit patchy in some of the places we are going.

Graz

Just had the call from the stealership, not one but two duff fuel injectors they think. Hopefully that'll sort it. ALi-B gets the diagnosis gold star

Seems odd that they've gone at such a low mileage but I guess diesel injectors are under a bit more stress than petrol ones due to the pressures involved. Is there anything that could cause premature failure e.g. duff fuel etc. ? The evening prior to it all going **** up I probably did something I shouldn't of, put the car on the drive when I got home to unload the toddler into the house but then remembered a while later that a friend was coming over to take some furniture we no longer wanted that was in the garage (blocked by my car). Moved the car onto the road and then moved it back a while later so two short start stop cycles in a row. I'd be surprised if that did contribute though else the injectors must be a bit fragile and also what about cars with start/stop technology?

Oh well hopefully a happy ending anyway and I don't have to pay

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Got to say I've had my differences with Ali on here, but he sure knows his stuff car wise. There's not many I'd ask for an opinion on something car fault wise before him let's put it like that.

Good to hear it isn't something major

leeds_182

iTrader: (2)

I test drive two of these and both broke down on the test drive!

Shame really as they seemed everything I wanted in a family car.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear its just the injectors, still expensive, I know. But not too much of a headache to replace; Inlet manifold needs to be undone moved to one side to get access (you should remove it, but I've got away without doing it before; saves messing with the connectors and pipes solonoid/sensor/acutor pipes underneath).

What causes them to go? I don't know. Some go forever some pop at silly low mileage.

But what I will say, low mileage isn't good on these. Not the injectors, but the EGR system and of course DPF (unless its been removed) and the variable vanes on Garrett VTN turbos (although the 535d has a pair of non-variable Borg-warner turbos, so less of a issue).

Last wednesday I removed the inlet manifold on a e60 520d with 192,000 miles to change the glowplugs (would you belive faulty glow plugs stop the DPF regenerating? ). The manifold still had its swirl flaps (should have been injested by now if you read any BMW forums ), in perfect working order and very little in the way of gunge/crud that you usually expect. This car lives on the motorway (airport taxi), I think that says it all IMO.

Whereas just before Christmas I had a 30,000 miles Merc e320cdi which uses a similar Garrett VTN turbo to the BMWs whose vanes has seized...it would overboost then go into limp home. Lucky for the owner I manges to unsieze it, but couldn't guarantee it would stay like that, so had to advise if it goes again it'll need a new turbo...the guy only potters around it in, so the suggestion of regular Italian tunes-ups was lost on him. Had the exact same issue with Range Rover TDV8s and TDV6s too (Yup, similar turbo).

The only other pattern I've seen with running issues that can cause injector damage is bacteria/fungus in the fuel, which in turn causes water contamination, and I'd hazard assuption that this is worse of vehicles that have stood for periods without any use at some point in the past. Water in the fuel definetly kills injectors.

Forté do make some magic potions. I'm not endorising them but I have used them. Their EGR cleaner seems to help. They do a fuel system conditioner which is supposed to help with pump/injectors after the demise of sulphur in fuel, I'll have to ask them and check if it controls algae/bacteria in fuel. Either way it does no harm to use it.

Cheers F1, I feel rather embarrased now, LOL

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Just saying as I see it, you know me

Graz

Thanks, you certainly do know your stuff, may look into some of the "magic potions" / Forte stuff. Wasn't sure what the EGR did but now having Googled it sounds like a bad idea generally. Bloody tree huggers It's also likely that my car would have stood for periods without use (London owner previous) so it stacks up.

It won't be staying low mileage for long and will be getting regular Italian tune ups, especially over the next couple of weeks on the Scottish roads (Hopefully)

Matteeboy

So is it good for the Scotland trip?

I did the Llanberris pass area of North Wales in my similarish 335d and it was an absolute blast; enjoy!

Graz

Hopefully. They said they won't get the injectors until about now, need to fit them and test that it has fixed the problem. If so I can collect the car before they close at 6pm and we're all good for tomorrow. If not then who knows regarding the car and we'll be going to Scotland in the wife's 1.3L Mitsubishi Colt

Not going to the Highlands, just a border raid into Dumfries and Galloway but went there a fair few years back when I had the Scoob and the roads are pretty exciting none the less. So yeah should be looking forward to it.

Matteeboy

We did Mull in our camper in August. The van (180bhp, 4WD) isn't exactly a fun drivers car but it was still not bad. Did the Highlands in a hire Megane once - very frustrating!

Love the roads up there!

njkmrs

Quit the "man love" fellas....

borderlinechris

iTrader: (5)

little bit of snow here in d&g border region but its not bad, hope it dont spoil your trip! take the grey mares tail rd or the st marys loch rd, both out of moffat(which has an excellent chippy and a great sweet shop!!)

samtothed

I'm a diesel BMW driver 5 days of the week. Currently in a 320d, but I've been toying with buying a 535d for a while. When I was looking I spoke to my local BMW independant specialist and he said if I test drive one, make sure that I give it full beans to check for the problem that you are describing. He says there is a common issue with the wastegate actuator on those engines.

ScoobyJawa

Ali - would this be the same on a late 2006 E92 330d? When it was mapped last summer the chap said there was a fault code on 2 of the glow plugs. Car still fine, said not worth it for 2 coz it was a manifold off job.....

If it stops regeneration then I need to fix them asap!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Tricky to give a straight answer on this, but yes it could affect DPf regeneration. Sometimes glow plug faults crop up as a temporary or intermittent fault which isn't a issue. Intermittant glowplug codes crop up pretty regular and thats something I wouldn't worry about. Its only the permanent ones (i.e they return immediately after a fault code reset) that should be of a concern.

Regardless of codes, the car will still passively regenerate the DPF whenever you give it some beans or do some fast motorway cruising. And even with a few dead glow plugs (or glow plug controller) it will always start and run fine (although may stutter or run a little lumpy when cold for a few seconds after starting with a cold engine on a cold morning).

I would have thought if there was an issue, the DPF would have clogged by now. You'll know if its clogged from driving it; As the turbo will be very laggy and the engine will be generally down on power. The annoying thing with BMWs is they won't always show an engine warning light or a warning on the display to tell the drive its clogged until its really bad.

For piece of mind, you can try and find someone with some suitable equipment that can read both fault codes and live data for a beer. If the DPF is blocked you will get codes related to that: 480a 481a and maybe the odd one saying the exhaust pressure sensor is reading too high. If these codes are present, the codes should be cleared and the car given a very quick spin round the block to see if they return and aren't old (historic) codes.

The live data should show the exhaust back pressure in millibars, its should be pretty much zero with the engine running at idle. If its above 50millibars then there's a problem. The live data should also show if the ECU has requested a regeneration procedure. Whilst you are looking at live data make sure the engine coolant temp is holding a steady 88 to 90dgrees during normal driving (duff thermostats is another common DPF problem on these).

Just a final note, if the glow plugs are dead and you are getting them replaced, make sure it is the glowplugs at fault...as the controllers do go faulty too (yes some glowplugs will still work with a failed controller). So during replacement of the glowplugs (still with the manifold removed) the engine ECU fault codes should be cleared, ignition cycled on/off, then codes re-read. If the fault remains on the same cylinders even after new plug fitted (or swapped round), the controller is duff. The reason why you do this test with the manifold removed is the glow plug controller is under there too!

ScoobyJawa

Ali many thanks, top post.

Fortunately my next door neighbour is a ex BMW service manager and still works for an independent BMW specialist so I'm going to get him to have a look based on that, peace of mind etc!

Thanks again!

Luan Pra bang

ALi-b you should open a garage near me, got some good garages round this way but loads of them struggle with fault finding on Modern diesels you seem to be the font of all knowledge on Kraut motors.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'm not that good Its a dark art, I'll give you that. Some experience combined with a logical thought path for fault finding when given accurate symptoms. Plus it helps alot when the car owner is willing to pay the labour time involved with tracking down the fault(s). However, these days it does need equipment and resources to help back that up.

Some cars do and have got the better of me. Be it from lack of relevent/up to date equipment, or lack of information and/or knowledge specific to that model of car. Annoying as hell when it happens.....

The biggest problems for people working in automotive diagnostics is lack of indepth information and diagnostic tools without having to pay exorbitant subscription fees and equipment costs (especially when they don't inlcude the "add ons"). For example Autologic for BMW costs about £8000 + £800 for the connector kit + £750 per year thereafter... Not too bad I suppose, however combine that with a load of other business overheads (taxes, rent, utilities etc) in a highly competative market makes it a very difficult business model.

Matteeboy

Ali; our 335d is now over six years old but still going very well. On 47k miles and only had turbo and intercooler pipes replaced (neither were urgent, just being cautious). Anything we should do like change gearbox oil or anything else? I change the oil twice as often as recommended. And use a lot of tyres...!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Make sure fuel filter's been changed. IIRC that should on every third oil change/service request on the CBS display.

Gearbox is supposed to be sealed for life. If you have seen the cost of ZF lifeguard 6 or lifeguard 8, you'll know why (plus its smells worse than hypoid ).

However...the official stance from ZF is this: https://serviceline.zf.com/interoele...011_en0700.pdf
So based on that, ZF's general reccomendation in the listed worst case operating conditions is 8 years or between 50,000 to 75,000 miles. I can't remember the shedule for the differential oil off hand, but as its not a LSD unit, its not so important.

The rest of the stuff is just as when; for example you can't stop your suspension's bushing from deteriorating with age. You just have to wait until you feel its not driving like it should be. Front lower thrust/tie arm bushings being the favourite to go first on these (same setup as the old 5 series). They never fail, just get more and more sloppy with age.

k9l3

iTrader: (1)

The 330 and 335 both diesel and petrol are suppose to be very unreliable as the car and engine are so technical . I would love either but only heard bad things about them reliability wise

k9l3

iTrader: (1)

I would wory everytime going out in that car that it might brake dow
I would buy a 3year good warranty if i was you

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Don't buy a Renault Megane then.

Seriously the ratio of Renaults to BMWs we have through the doors is about 10:1. Peugeots and Citroens aren't far off that either.

...Still have a mark on the driveway from when a 408HDi ran away during a forced regen

One thing I have to stress to so many people is that there no such thing as a 100% reliable car. Cars go wrong, end of. Just some do it more than others. Google any brand or model of car and you will find someone on a forum somewhere moaning about something breaking on it.

Matteeboy

4.5 years of ownership, now on 47k miles, not a single issue.

I asked Ali because he KNOWS his stuff. I didn't ask for advice from some goon without a clue.

Anyway, cheers Ali - I do look after it well but the gearbox thing seems to be a grey area.

k9l3

iTrader: (1)

All cars have problems but lets be real some certain models of cars spend more time in garages being fixed . 1 of them being the bmw that is mentioned

Brun

..........according to hearsay!!!!!!!!