maff125

iTrader: (1)

A very good friend of mine has found himself with the painful decision of choosing between a b7 Audi rs4 or a BMW m5 v10, I'm not jealous at all, honest!
He already owns a 350bhp classic and an Audi b7 estate and a yamaha r6.
Car will be used for a 15 mile round trip to work and weekend fun, so what would be the better buy? The all wheel drive v8, or the monster engined v10?

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Sorry forgot to say budget is 25 grand and cars of around 57 plate

Brun

Is the RS6 not the car to compare the M5 with?

500

How about throwing the V10 S6 into the mix, thinking of upgrading the wifes car to one...

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

v10 RS6 there was one at last years 30-130 day, bonkers car!

TX.

bluenosewrx

iTrader: (2)

RS4 is a fantastic car and wish i had never sold mine, have no experience of the M5.

Make sure it has had all recalls done and service campaigns complete, also aux rads and oil cooler pipes fail at 4-5 year old cars, also make sure DRC is second generation which rarely fail now.

If you can get one with milltek you are on a winner, also brakes are 1k fitted at dealer so ensure their is plenty life left in them.

Mac

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm rs6, i will pass on the suggestion! I know absolutely nothing about the v10 m5's but they look like a heavy old bus, and cheers for the info on the rs4:-)
Just been looking and for 25 grand you can get alot of motor these days. I'd be tempted by a 911 turbo, have always liked these but maybe pricey on the servicing etc.

Dingdongler

I've had both, between the two I'd go for the V10 M5. The latter is much much faster, the 507 BHP is a conservative estimate and time and time again the quoted BHP on the RS4 has been shown to be over stated.

I only kept the RS4 for about 3 days so can comment on the M5 far better

Pros

1) That engine is really something quite special. It was a bespoke engine (ie only the M5 and M6 had it) as opposed to a common engine used in many versions.
The way it revs and pulls as hard at the redline as it does anywhere else is amazing.

Emissions regs means these sorts of engines will no longer be produced, just look at the new M5, the new M3 and new AMG engines

2) The steering feel is the best. I've driven all the current crop ie Jag XFR, C class and E class AMG and M3. The M5 has the best steering feedback.

3) Confidence inspiring handling

4) Some very nice toys ie active seats, hud

Cons

1) Fuel economy is appalling, but hey ho what else did we expect

2) Small tank means touring range is really quite poor. I was forever almost running out of petrol

3) SMG gearbox is showing its age, clunky and slow compared to modern DCT type stuff.


Good luck and I really wish I hadn't sold my M5, it was very special.

Essexdon

Some rich *******s on here lmao

M5 would be my choice

King Eric

M5 with current BMW warranty included. Fair few out there but my days you don't want one with a DSG that fails!

The M5 for me has everything. Most are very well spec'd up too. And the noise alone is worth having one. Stick a milltek on the back of it and they sound like a Nascar.

Dingdongler

Not Milltek mate, check out the Eisenmann

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5WfN...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZaim...eature=related

Maz

iTrader: (34)

The Audi is a nicer place to be in and has a more planted feel. The 4.2 V8 whilst not as special as the BM V10 is still a glorious unit. Personally I think it sounds better than the M5 especially at idle and low/mid revs. A lovely deep woofle. The BM is quicker and certainly has the loony factor. It's at it's best on the open road being wrung out. In town I found it jerky and not that enjoyable. The cabin is a little cramped in the BM given the size of car. The Audi has the manual gearbox which I felt connected you to the car better and it pulls from way way low down. The performance is lovely and linear. The BM has to be coaxed a little harder to play ball but it's worth it.
My advice drive both and take whichever one suits your mate's needs and driving style. I found both fantastic to drive but as a daily proprosition it would be the Audi for me by gnat's whisker.

kenc

iTrader: (6)

Forgeting about the power, surely the RS4 is designed more with Driveability in mind, road conditions and the winters of late, last year i had the misfortune of owning an e46 m3 when the snow came, and i couldnt move it in my drive, and thats on the flat.
From reviews ive seen the m5 is ment to be a pig in town, i know all Ms dont like crawling on off clutch 1st and 2nd gear town work but isnt the M5 v10 ment to be really bad?

CrisPDuk

Personally I'd look for an Alpina 5 Series over an M5, far classier

bighead

iTrader: (1)

here is a nice M5 for sale http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605809


answer to yr question is M5 all day long

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Some good advice/owner comments there guys, if it were me I'd be tempted by the quattro drivetrain and the lighter weight of the Audi but the m5 is supposed to be insanely fast, over 200mph deristricted and as fast as a gallardo? and I think my mate is swaying toward the m5 now, all I know is... I'll be a having a spin!

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Decisions decisions!

maff125

iTrader: (1)

Is that the old Nogaro blue colour on the rs4? I'd take the rs all day long, closest Ive got is my old twin turbo s4 which was pretty low on feedback tbh, now how can I stretch to get one?!

Jimpreza

I thought it was sprint blue.

I'd go for the M5 even though it does look a bit boring for me.

stevemort

have driven an rs4 v8 many times is not a drivers car and doesnt put a smile on your face,not driven am m5 v10 so cant comment the rs4 doesnt feel punchy for the power it has

millwrx

iTrader: (1)

mate told me he had put a post on here for me.well i have ended up buying a 05 plate m5,pick it up in a couple of weeks,really nice car with good history and new flywheel and clutch fitted which is the only weak point with these,have already ordered some bits for it,RPI ram air scoops with block off plates,AFE air filters,evosport power pully,eibach springs,goodridge brakes lines,will post pics when i get it home

Dingdongler

Congrats. Personally I would have left the car as standard. I can't see the filters and scoops actually adding any power on an already highly tuned NA engine.

Dingdongler

Nail on head. It feels nippy but not super car fast in the way the M5 does.

bighead

iTrader: (1)

get the RPI GT exhaust system as well .....you will not be dissapointed

bighead

iTrader: (1)

the scoops will add power as it act as a "ram air effect" when the car is on the move , but the biggest gain will be the decat full straight through exhaust system as well a gaining an awsome sounding car !!

thesyn

Good for you mate.

I recon there was only ever one choice, I mean 500hp V10

millwrx

iTrader: (1)

it already has a haywood and scott rear exhaust system fitted,didnt want to go down the line of a decat due to emissions etc plus i dont want it too loud(keeping the subaru for that),yes the scoops act as a ram air system with the block off plates which pressure the air box,dyno proved to add 28ish bhp with a 70mph windwith the air filters,plus the power pully adds up to 25bhp,also going for a CA remap,all that little lot should see around a 50 to 60bhp increase,507bhp standard to around 550bhp,that will do me...

john banks

If my only car, I would have the RS4 in winter, and the M5 in spring, summer and autumn. If a second car, M5 no doubt.

I bought a GTR instead of either as I wanted one car to do all weathers, but ended up getting a Subaru to do the winter as winter tyres on it are more practical and it you worry less about someone sliding into you. Whilst both are AWD, you can floor the Subaru in first gear and it will have about the same traction as the GTR in 4th gear.

millwrx, I would reconsider what Deep says about leaving the M5 alone. Dyno is a very flawed (perhaps the most flawed possible) method of testing an airbox (consider the real vs claimed filtration, equalising ignition/AFR between tests, skews to MAF readings, temperature fatigue), underdrive pulleys on some engines can reduce AC or alternator performance and have been implicated in bearing damage/vibration/harshness/stalling, and remapping a NA V10 of this sophistication to perform better in all conditions rather than the simulation of a dyno and then printing off the best delta is something that even the cleverest mappers I know would struggle to convince me of the evidence for their claims. Also beware the old trick of adding all the gains together so you end up with 550 BHP. Most of it is sleight of hand on a NA engine that you want to stay nice for the road. You'll also probably kill your resale value as those who know will often mistrust whether all the above has considered, others will be naturally suspicious and you have a small market of ex Jap car refugees who might take the bait.

millwrx

iTrader: (1)

being a mechanic by trade and also looking into tuning the e60 m5 these are proven gains show here and in the states,CA technologies are one the best if not the best uk bmw tuner and after having spoke to roy these are the best mods for the e60 v10 engine,even fitted to his own car,have reseached alot into mods for the v10 and these are the only true mods,other than one of there supercharger conversions which is way out of my price range,all mods are reverseable so if i do come to sell it, just bolt the old parts back on and sell the others,think the market for this car is small anyway what with fuel prices etc,buying one just because ive always fancied one and its one hell of a car..

john banks

I hear you, but what are "proven gains", as I see claims like this all the time and dispute many of them as they don't stand up to formal scrutiny. Dyno tests and what a seller of automotive parts/services uses on their own car are not proven gains. When I looked at the E60 M5 I struggled to be convinced that independently measured gains in acceleration times were even statistically significant, never mind have a confident mph/£ or s/£ return on investment. I've been tuning turbocharged engines for some years, and wouldn't bother short of a supercharger on a normally aspirated road engine, especially on something already with over 100 BHP/litre. Some of the very best tuners, with a following wind, on a good day, might have a suspicion of improvement, but generally they just take money off people to make their cars noisier, have poorer air filtration, lose performance in hot weather depending on intake design, and sometimes lose torque.

The new turbocharged one if the ECU can be cracked is another kettle of fish entirely. Same with things like the GTR where the best is running 10.0 quarter mile still on the stock turbos, on an engine that started with less power than the E60 M5.

I would be genuinely interested to see independent quality evidence of worthwhile gains with E60 M5 tuning.

But it is your money, enjoy your car!