Impreza to Elise...
19 April 2002, 09:39 AM
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Hi all
I'd like to hear from anyone that's gone from a scooby to an elise. I've been interested in an one for a good while, and worked out (roughly) last night that I would save 1/3 (or £100 per month) on running costs by swapping to an elise.
I really love my scoob but the servicing costs are a p155take, and half the time I'm scared of booting it anywhere as the fuel guage it's too painful to watch!
Matey who has an elise is getting between 40-50mpg.
Also any general comments on elises are welcome.
Cheers
Whip
I'd like to hear from anyone that's gone from a scooby to an elise. I've been interested in an one for a good while, and worked out (roughly) last night that I would save 1/3 (or £100 per month) on running costs by swapping to an elise.
I really love my scoob but the servicing costs are a p155take, and half the time I'm scared of booting it anywhere as the fuel guage it's too painful to watch!
Matey who has an elise is getting between 40-50mpg.Also any general comments on elises are welcome.
Cheers
Whip
19 April 2002, 10:10 AM
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There's naff-all weight in them m8, and they're only a 1.8 rover K-series pushing out 118bhp (for the base model anyway). All the power is up top so if you pootle about at low-ish revs fuel economy is very good. Power to weight ratio is (from Evo) for my MY00 is 177bhp/ton, the new-age scooby is 158bhp/ton, and the elise is around 160bhp/ton, purely down to the lack of weight.
A friend of mine has a sport 160, which has quite a bit more torque and is still as economical. I'm thinking about taking that off his hands as he's buying a house soon, but can't test drive it until it's back from having new Koni's fitted.
I've wondered about hiring an elise for a few days too, just to get to know it a bit better, as a test drive only tells half the tale.
Whip
A friend of mine has a sport 160, which has quite a bit more torque and is still as economical. I'm thinking about taking that off his hands as he's buying a house soon, but can't test drive it until it's back from having new Koni's fitted.
I've wondered about hiring an elise for a few days too, just to get to know it a bit better, as a test drive only tells half the tale.
Whip
19 April 2002, 01:23 PM
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there have been threads on this before - I swapped an impreza for an elise a few years ago (N reg Scoob ---> P reg Elise when they first came out). Admittedly it was one of the earlier models but talking to friends not a lot has changed other than cosmetically. To cut to the chase it was the worst car I have ever owned and sooooo regretted trading in the much faster scooby.
LOTUS = Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Pros
Looked great
Felt fantastic on the track (took it round one of the side tracks at Silverstone)
Cons
Slow - felt faster than it was due to ride height but, whilst it was ok 0-60 (just about kept up with a M3 one day but not sure he was trying hard) it was rubbish above 60 with overtaking a real heart in your mouth event on country roads
Uncomfortable - **** numb beyond 60 miles
Noisy - forget even considering hearing the radio unless you're stationary
Roof a joke - by the time you've gone back to being a cub trying to erect a tent you're **** wet through. a good 5 minute thrutch.
Impractical for everyday use - boot the size of an ice cream container, unpleasant to drive on the open road too far with dreadful interior
Handling nowhere near as good on the open road as on the track - you have to get used to the steering waggling randomly (albeit the car stays in a straight line whilst it does it), and it is so light it was constantly trying to kiss its **** or a stone wall
Gearbox awful - always crunched going into reverse (not cool) and thrid was a real crunch
Exhaust - pissed oil out on a regular basis
To be fair the newer ones may have improved but I'd take a long test drive before you make a decision based on its looks.
good luck
Gordo
LOTUS = Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
Pros
Looked great
Felt fantastic on the track (took it round one of the side tracks at Silverstone)
Cons
Slow - felt faster than it was due to ride height but, whilst it was ok 0-60 (just about kept up with a M3 one day but not sure he was trying hard) it was rubbish above 60 with overtaking a real heart in your mouth event on country roads
Uncomfortable - **** numb beyond 60 miles
Noisy - forget even considering hearing the radio unless you're stationary
Roof a joke - by the time you've gone back to being a cub trying to erect a tent you're **** wet through. a good 5 minute thrutch.
Impractical for everyday use - boot the size of an ice cream container, unpleasant to drive on the open road too far with dreadful interior
Handling nowhere near as good on the open road as on the track - you have to get used to the steering waggling randomly (albeit the car stays in a straight line whilst it does it), and it is so light it was constantly trying to kiss its **** or a stone wall
Gearbox awful - always crunched going into reverse (not cool) and thrid was a real crunch
Exhaust - pissed oil out on a regular basis
To be fair the newer ones may have improved but I'd take a long test drive before you make a decision based on its looks.
good luck
Gordo
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19 April 2002, 05:08 PM
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Hmmm,
I've just gone the opposite way - gave up my company car and swapped my Elise S160 for an STI (also had 2 other Elises before hand), I guess that tells you something but:
1) If I was keeping the company car i'd wouldn't of swapped the Elise for a Scoob. My S160 was a bit more hardcore than a standard Elise, but I could of lived with it everyday but would of dulled the experience a bit.
2) Slow - Not really, the standard cars are a bit breathless after 80 or so but how fast on the road do you want to go? Very easy to get 160 BHP from them for approx 2K. Then 0-100 in 13secs, as fast as an STI... Plus they are more fun at slow speeds than a scoob.
3) Uncomfortable - The standard cars suspension is quite soft and its comfy up to a certain sized bump! Seats can be a bit hard but in all honesty I didn't ever find them uncomfortable.
4) Noisey, they are but only when cruising on the motorway/dual carriage way, much quieter with the roof off. It is a sports car!
5) Not practical - Thats obvious but the boot is useable for two for a weekend, depends what you want to do with it? I think the interior is nice - loads of luverly ali.
6) Handling - Sorry Gordo but thats bollocks! Fantastic handling but you have to drive it with a bit of respect, you can't drive it like a scoob. Steering is easily the best of any car i've driven.
7) Gearbox is a bit crap, but its not that bad.
8) Oil out the exhuast? what?
Of the 3 I had, none of them ever broke down, they can be tempremental if you don't look after them. They are simple cars and if anything does go wrong they are very easy to fix. Maybe I was just lucky.
I wouldn't buy one on the grounds of it being cheaper to run, servicing at a Lotus dealer is far more than a scoob. Its a completely differnet car and you need to decide what you want the car to do!
Cheers
Rich B
I've just gone the opposite way - gave up my company car and swapped my Elise S160 for an STI (also had 2 other Elises before hand), I guess that tells you something but:
1) If I was keeping the company car i'd wouldn't of swapped the Elise for a Scoob. My S160 was a bit more hardcore than a standard Elise, but I could of lived with it everyday but would of dulled the experience a bit.
2) Slow - Not really, the standard cars are a bit breathless after 80 or so but how fast on the road do you want to go? Very easy to get 160 BHP from them for approx 2K. Then 0-100 in 13secs, as fast as an STI... Plus they are more fun at slow speeds than a scoob.
3) Uncomfortable - The standard cars suspension is quite soft and its comfy up to a certain sized bump! Seats can be a bit hard but in all honesty I didn't ever find them uncomfortable.
4) Noisey, they are but only when cruising on the motorway/dual carriage way, much quieter with the roof off. It is a sports car!
5) Not practical - Thats obvious but the boot is useable for two for a weekend, depends what you want to do with it? I think the interior is nice - loads of luverly ali.
6) Handling - Sorry Gordo but thats bollocks! Fantastic handling but you have to drive it with a bit of respect, you can't drive it like a scoob. Steering is easily the best of any car i've driven.
7) Gearbox is a bit crap, but its not that bad.
8) Oil out the exhuast? what?
Of the 3 I had, none of them ever broke down, they can be tempremental if you don't look after them. They are simple cars and if anything does go wrong they are very easy to fix. Maybe I was just lucky.
I wouldn't buy one on the grounds of it being cheaper to run, servicing at a Lotus dealer is far more than a scoob. Its a completely differnet car and you need to decide what you want the car to do!
Cheers
Rich B
20 April 2002, 02:18 PM
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We got an Elise last year to go with the Scoob (which I've subsequently changed to a Civic Type R anyway because Subaru running costs are silly). 40-50mpg sounds possible, but I've never managed as much as 40mpg, because the Elise's throttle response is so fantastic, I just have to hang onto the gears and press the throttle further ever so gently to get the most amazing thrills. After the poor throttle response and turbo lag of the Scoob, that in itself could sell itself to you.
You can make your own mind up about practicality, reliability isn't a real problem (niggles happen, but the mechanical bits are sound), so the only other thing I can add is that it's incredibly relaxing on motorways and in traffic, because nobody tries to race you, cars move out of your way even when you're only doing 70mph, and the 'You're a yob' attitude of other road users to Scoob drivers is completely gone. Very satisfying indeed.
Oh, and if you test drive one, you'll just know if it's your sort of car.
[Edited by SJobson - 4/20/2002 2:19:54 PM]
You can make your own mind up about practicality, reliability isn't a real problem (niggles happen, but the mechanical bits are sound), so the only other thing I can add is that it's incredibly relaxing on motorways and in traffic, because nobody tries to race you, cars move out of your way even when you're only doing 70mph, and the 'You're a yob' attitude of other road users to Scoob drivers is completely gone. Very satisfying indeed.
Oh, and if you test drive one, you'll just know if it's your sort of car.
[Edited by SJobson - 4/20/2002 2:19:54 PM]
22 April 2002, 02:38 PM
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I think the best value Elise would be a private purchase, 2000 model 111S, although look at the prices of Exiges now...
Other 'best value Elise' could be a secondhand Vauxhall VX200, if you can stomach the idea. First year depreciation is abysmal so they're cheap. If you can find one.
Other 'best value Elise' could be a secondhand Vauxhall VX200, if you can stomach the idea. First year depreciation is abysmal so they're cheap. If you can find one.
22 April 2002, 04:03 PM
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I wouldn't touch a 111S with a pole from a barge.
The VVC is an overly complicated mechanism which results in blown headgaskets more often and other problems.
The garage I use has a box full of broken VVC bits. The owner (who tunes and races Exiges reckons the 135 is much better and having driven both back to back I would agree.
In fact I would say the 135 with an airbox kit and a decent exhaust is probably the best all round Elise. Any more power and you will lose flexibility and need suspension upgrades.
We changed our 135 Elise for an Exige recently and below 5500rpm the Elise was MUCH smoother and faster.
Servicing costs won't be cheaper than the Scoob though, probably noticeably more (although we haven't had that many services for our Scoob yet...)
Performance of a 135 Elise is noticeably better than a standard Scoob (Wife and I tried them alongside each other and the Scoob hasn't a hope below 85mph, by which time it is way behind)
Handling of the Elise is in another league altogether.
Economy is great. 40-45 is possible, but 30s is more likely, even when pushing.
Without the cat the rear of the car can get a bit fried, especially with a competition exhaust. We have flames coming out the exhaust of the Exige lots, and the Elise must have been similar because the Azure blue turned black and started peeling...
Get one. You know it makes sense (Sport 135 is the one)
Mark
The VVC is an overly complicated mechanism which results in blown headgaskets more often and other problems.
The garage I use has a box full of broken VVC bits. The owner (who tunes and races Exiges reckons the 135 is much better and having driven both back to back I would agree.
In fact I would say the 135 with an airbox kit and a decent exhaust is probably the best all round Elise. Any more power and you will lose flexibility and need suspension upgrades.
We changed our 135 Elise for an Exige recently and below 5500rpm the Elise was MUCH smoother and faster.
Servicing costs won't be cheaper than the Scoob though, probably noticeably more (although we haven't had that many services for our Scoob yet...)
Performance of a 135 Elise is noticeably better than a standard Scoob (Wife and I tried them alongside each other and the Scoob hasn't a hope below 85mph, by which time it is way behind)
Handling of the Elise is in another league altogether.
Economy is great. 40-45 is possible, but 30s is more likely, even when pushing.
Without the cat the rear of the car can get a bit fried, especially with a competition exhaust. We have flames coming out the exhaust of the Exige lots, and the Elise must have been similar because the Azure blue turned black and started peeling...
Get one. You know it makes sense (Sport 135 is the one)
Mark
22 April 2002, 04:42 PM
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Ok I can't stay out of this any longer..
completely disagree with BT52 - sorry. I have had a completely reliable 111s vvc mech and driven nearly 10,000 miles in it now.
power is excellent acceleration is superb. the 135 is a good model but without the C/R gearbox. (afaik)
Elise is a good car imho but very raw and takes getting used to - yes it rattles and squeaks - suspension bangs like a barn door ina blizzard and it is generally in need of tlc.
However the experience is good the driver feedback excellent and on a hot sunny day roof off thru the countryside - you can't beat those feelings....
Drive one - I know many scoob owners see them as a plastic car with no guts - its the scapel vs the axe as far as I am concerned.
www.british-cars.co.uk
completely disagree with BT52 - sorry. I have had a completely reliable 111s vvc mech and driven nearly 10,000 miles in it now.
power is excellent acceleration is superb. the 135 is a good model but without the C/R gearbox. (afaik)
Elise is a good car imho but very raw and takes getting used to - yes it rattles and squeaks - suspension bangs like a barn door ina blizzard and it is generally in need of tlc.
However the experience is good the driver feedback excellent and on a hot sunny day roof off thru the countryside - you can't beat those feelings....
Drive one - I know many scoob owners see them as a plastic car with no guts - its the scapel vs the axe as far as I am concerned.
www.british-cars.co.uk
22 April 2002, 05:00 PM
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Sport 135 came with the close ratio box. Didn't bother getting it myself when we upgraded our standard car because the gearing was a bit too low for me. With our Exige the close box is slightly countered by the larger diameter wheels.
It also had uprated brakes.
I don't doubt that some 111s have been reliable, but the fact remains that statistically (for the garage I use anyway), they tend to suffer more often. Same with VVC engined Rover 200s.
Shame because the VVC engine is really nice and smooth and revvy, the 135 feels like a bit of an animal afterwards, rougher and much noisier (ours was louder than the Exige!) but a little bit more punch.
Also seems that the quality of the parts used on the 111S suspension was better than the standard Elise. I think they tend to be a bit less tunable than the non-VVC though.
It also had uprated brakes.
I don't doubt that some 111s have been reliable, but the fact remains that statistically (for the garage I use anyway), they tend to suffer more often. Same with VVC engined Rover 200s.
Shame because the VVC engine is really nice and smooth and revvy, the 135 feels like a bit of an animal afterwards, rougher and much noisier (ours was louder than the Exige!) but a little bit more punch.
Also seems that the quality of the parts used on the 111S suspension was better than the standard Elise. I think they tend to be a bit less tunable than the non-VVC though.
23 April 2002, 09:54 AM
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Mark, I'm hoping that Elise servicing will be cheaper than Impreza (at least, the old shape Impreza with shorter service intervals) because for one thing, it only needs servicing annually as opposed to every 6 months. And my Impreza would have cost me about £1100 in planned servicing over the following 15 months, had I kept it, while in that time the Elise will need one 'A' service only. After that it'll be out of warranty so I'm not going to use a main dealer gimp.
Actually, I thought of the 111S as 'best value' without thinking about the 135. An official Sport 135 from Lotus isn't such good value, IMO, but a normal Elise modified to 135 spec probably is. Depends what you want - I'm perfectly happy with my standard S2.
Actually, I thought of the 111S as 'best value' without thinking about the 135. An official Sport 135 from Lotus isn't such good value, IMO, but a normal Elise modified to 135 spec probably is. Depends what you want - I'm perfectly happy with my standard S2.
23 April 2002, 09:58 AM
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"Has anyone run an Elise as an all year round car..ie commuting etc ? "
From talking to Rich Askew, that was half the reason for changing to the Elise as he used it for a fair commute each morning.
From talking to Rich Askew, that was half the reason for changing to the Elise as he used it for a fair commute each morning.
23 April 2002, 12:54 PM
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I use the Lotus garage that Evo recommended as cheapest. (Seem most professional as well IMO, Kelvedon). But it still costs a bomb.
I was talking about S1 135s of course, the S2 135 has a good 10bhp less than the first one. Genuine 135 and 160 Sport models do seem to hold their value quite well as limited editions.
Probably better off getting a standard car and upgrading as and when you want. PTP 140 kit is the S1 135 upgrade.
Have the advantage then that you can have the excitement of getting used to the extra power each time you feel you need more.
For me the worst thing about using it every day was that it gets pretty cold in Winter and the soft top does lose the heat pretty fast. I guess a hardtop would help that though. Also the standard S1 seats are not the last word in comfort...
[Edited by BT52b - 4/23/2002 12:56:45 PM]
I was talking about S1 135s of course, the S2 135 has a good 10bhp less than the first one. Genuine 135 and 160 Sport models do seem to hold their value quite well as limited editions.
Probably better off getting a standard car and upgrading as and when you want. PTP 140 kit is the S1 135 upgrade.
Have the advantage then that you can have the excitement of getting used to the extra power each time you feel you need more.
For me the worst thing about using it every day was that it gets pretty cold in Winter and the soft top does lose the heat pretty fast. I guess a hardtop would help that though. Also the standard S1 seats are not the last word in comfort...
[Edited by BT52b - 4/23/2002 12:56:45 PM]
23 April 2002, 02:25 PM
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I have to agree with B52's comments on VVC models. The early ones had so many problems that they were initially on "limited supply". Lotus & Rover put a spin on it to say that supply outstripped demand, but this was not entirely the case.
I'm sure Rover sorted out the later cars, just be wary of earlier 111s.
Andy
PS. Are you thinking of new or second hand. I hear prices from France are cheap (~£17K). I've done a little research this lunchtime, but haven't found any UK companies who will bring RHD versions in. Anyone know any different?
I'm sure Rover sorted out the later cars, just be wary of earlier 111s.
Andy
PS. Are you thinking of new or second hand. I hear prices from France are cheap (~£17K). I've done a little research this lunchtime, but haven't found any UK companies who will bring RHD versions in. Anyone know any different?
23 April 2002, 05:28 PM
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No certainly not 17k - sorry
brand new s2 is about 24k from dealer - cheapest I've seen is £21,995 thru internet.
Still disagree with the VVC comments - there has not been I failure rate of these cars ude to VVC problems or HGF
considering its the same block as the MGF they have had a lot of HGF.
If you are looking s/h then a good example S1 Standard is yours for 15k a tatty on for 12k - sorted 160 to be had for 18/19k (be careful usually are tracked often and a bit lumpy)
I don't want to dispute what BT52 is saying as he knows his stuff but I would prefer a car that is sorted from the start to a DIY upgrade car. Hence my choice was a 111s
Seats are more padded in the 111s - see ya
Go for a drive
24 April 2002, 09:59 AM
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Cheers for the advice guys, I will be driving a friend's LAD-tuned S1 in a week or two.
Could someone give me a couple of examples for service costs and intervals, so I can compare to the scoob?
Cheers
Whip
Could someone give me a couple of examples for service costs and intervals, so I can compare to the scoob?
Cheers
Whip
24 April 2002, 01:55 PM
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That's exactly what I was after, thanks m8!
It looks a lot more economical to service compared to the scoob, with intervals 1500 miles later and only every other service being a tad expensive. With the scoob every other service is like 350-450 quid.
Whip
It looks a lot more economical to service compared to the scoob, with intervals 1500 miles later and only every other service being a tad expensive. With the scoob every other service is like 350-450 quid.
Whip
24 April 2002, 05:56 PM
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I use lakeside for my services - yes the really are good value.
However they are not an official lotus dealer so warranty work etc cannot be done there- however they are extremely competant - many os the brit cars bbs use them I have never heard a bad word about them (except that yard is a graveyard of crashed elises which is a bit sad)
However lotus services are about £400 for an A and go from there... yes it is cheaper than a subaru but its not a massive difference
best value is you can get 35 mpg out of an elise !
24 April 2002, 08:30 PM
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Can't tell you what it's like changing from one to another, but can advise on both, as I've got a WRX MY02 and my husband's got an Elise Sport 160, which he uses daily, 365 days a year - still haven't got carpets in the house though
They are both tremendous fun to drive, but in totally different ways. They are both about as quick, with the Liz being the 160 version. Yes, the Liz is noisy, but who cares - turn the stereo up! We have had a couple of little problems (passenger window falling out, rear view mirror falling off, poor headlights, useless windscreen wiper etc.) but it is such fun that it compensates, especially on sunny days.
Also keep in mind how much luggage you are going to be needing - you can take a weekend bag and a passenger in the Liz, but much more and you're stuck. That's why we got the Scooby - sensible car, silly performance (also having a young child makes the Liz useless on family trips!)
Hope this helps
They are both tremendous fun to drive, but in totally different ways. They are both about as quick, with the Liz being the 160 version. Yes, the Liz is noisy, but who cares - turn the stereo up! We have had a couple of little problems (passenger window falling out, rear view mirror falling off, poor headlights, useless windscreen wiper etc.) but it is such fun that it compensates, especially on sunny days.
Also keep in mind how much luggage you are going to be needing - you can take a weekend bag and a passenger in the Liz, but much more and you're stuck. That's why we got the Scooby - sensible car, silly performance (also having a young child makes the Liz useless on family trips!)
Hope this helps
25 April 2002, 09:00 AM
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Daphne, if your Elise 160 is only "just about as quick" as a WRX then I suggest you get the Elise checked over because it ought to be MUCH MUCH quiicker.
The 135 does 0-100 in 14.9s (WRX is over 18s) so imagine how a 160 should murder it.
The 135 does 0-100 in 14.9s (WRX is over 18s) so imagine how a 160 should murder it.