david_h

Scooby's are fantastic drivers cars, and after meeting up with a 260bhp one on Sunday round the B-roads I realise how seriously fast these cars are. That said I detest the look of them, and that's why I'd never buy one.
Just wondering, my engine is about to have it's final modifications, it'll be naturally aspirated FWD, with LSD, 6speed box, throttle bodies (mapped for flat torque curve), cams, race head, 2 litre b/end. Suspension etc already uprated. Final output approx 240-260bhp at the flywheel. The car weighs just over 900kg, my question is could I take on a scooby??
You'd be unlikely to see it as a threat as other than wheels it looks reasonably stock.

helpme

what car is it? and they ain't ugly! well the new ones maybe...

helpme

get a scooby mate.....you know you want to.!

DARREN

Quite possibly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
All depends on the driver too!!!!!!!!!!!

Lets just say your vehicle is putting out 250 bhp .
At 900 kg thats 277.7 bhp per tonne
My STi 290 bhp at 1270 kg,thats 228.3 bhp per tonne

What sort of vehicle is it,what brake set up have you got????????
Would you be anywhere near us in the wet
Remember the Scoob has 4wd and a close ratio gear box built for acceleration rather than outright speed(STi)


Darren

david_h

Ok it's a 1989 16v Golf GTI (Mk2)
Brakes will be brembo's when fitted.
I would be no where near you in the wet am sure.

Agreed the early scooby's look better and weighed less, but still don't do it for me.
Have to admit have never driven one so can't really comment as to how they compare.

helpme

drive one, you won't regret it.

pslewis

I think the true reason that you havent a Scooby is that the Golf '89 is worth, what? £1250??

You have a wait before the Scoobies get down to that level, then you WILL like them!!

Pete

RB5SCOTT

LOL Darren since when has your STI had 290bhp

Mr.Cookie

Oi pete you still got the hair dressers car coz that would be about the same figure wouldn't it

pslewis

Nah, gone-sold-sun came out so did the punters, down to just a handful of cars now ...... what next Aston, maybe??

Unlike many I have NO problem at all with image, hence I dont follow the crowd and pop the Golds on - they look cr4p, so I dont have them - EVERYONE KNOWS they look cr4p, I am the ONLY one who tells it as it is!!

Pete

david_h

In parkers price guide my Golf may be worth just £1,250 in standard form. But if you pay nothing, you get an unreliable car. Bought mine before prices went through the floor about 18mths ago, paid just over £4k for it with 90k on the clock. It's absolutely mint.
Bit harsh to say I couldn't afford a scooby, could have bought a boxster or TT seing as had £30k to play with, but there are 5 on my street alone. Scooby's are v.cheap in comparison.
Wheels on my car were £2k alone (japanese imports), engine is motorsport spec and with the box and clutch costs in excess of £6k. Still haven't included the stereo in that plus few other bits and bobs, + full recaro interior.
Have a v.unique car that turns many heads in London, the aim since it's a promotional tool for my website.
Each to his own.

Adam M

David, dont be offended by ps lewis, s frankly what he said was downright rude, he thinks he is funny, but mostly we laugh at him.

Great entertainment value thats it.

performance wise I dont think you will waste a scoobyas such, mostly because I think torque and traction will be your problem.

I am massive golf mk2 fans having had two. Why dont you go for a g60? would be rarer, give you a much easier way of attaining power, or even a rallye which might standa a chance traction wise of staying up.

or you could so the whole ian birch thing and put a rear axle in with another 240bhp in the back.

Either way good luck.

Will say that most people on here dont appreciate this kind of thread so you may get a grilling soon.

david_h

Adam, thanks for polite reply.
Don't worry expected a bit of harshness given I'm on a scooby forum.
Torque will be better than a scooby (currently just have head and cams and power comes in at 4000rpm plus, sick of stirring the box), with direct to head throttle bodies I can get the ECU mapped so the curve is pretty flat, vs turbo charged scooby where power is still at 4000rpm plus so i understand.
G60's are v.unreliable, to get big power you need a small pulley, ,and charger has to be serviced every 5k miles!!! Plus they are LHD, can't see to overtake. Rallye's v.ugly and LHD, considered a G60 syncro (4wd s/charged golf, v.rare), but engines are so old now and 1.8T is way to go for serious power, but any forced induction that relies on upping induction power from standard is wholey unreliable. e.g. RS Turbo's spending half their life in the garage.
Believe me I'll be interested to see how this engine performs, the guy who's building it builds race and rally car engines, unlike a lot of mod places, he knows what he's doing.
As for traction, 2wd = no grip in wet, but the LSD should help a bit.
Rant over, sorry for hogging your forum, just wanted to say how blown away I was by the speed of the Scooby on Sunday. And that modified silver one in the post below is gorgeous, only good looking one I've ever seen. Almost making me regret what i've done, gulp....

pslewis

Hey David h - maybe I was a bit rude, didnt notice you were a newbie!! welcome

I have a bent to winding people up, most on here are used to it, they play me along or just plain ignore me - Adam ignores me

I am sure you love your Golf and think it was worth spending loads on it - so, thats fine!! I'll leave you alone now (until you have a few more posts!!) Happy Motoring!!

Pete

pslewis

Hey David h - maybe I was a bit rude, didnt notice you were a newbie!! welcome

I have a bent to winding people up, most on here are used to it, they play me along or just plain ignore me - Adam ignores me

I am sure you love your Golf and think it was worth spending loads on it - so, thats fine!! I'll leave you alone now (until you have a few more posts!!) Happy Motoring!!

Pete

pslewis

Now I've got a bl00dy echo!!!

Pete

Fulham71

Which silver one ????

JJay

MKII golf - very capable car - engines bullit proof but 250hp is seriously over the top in that car, traction and lack of torque will be your downfall. The Rallye was a niche model, mine was looked after by AMD and had 197 HP with 230 lb/ft but in every day driving conditions was no quicker than my modified mk11 8v, the problem was down to the risk of breaking the charger and that terrible cable change box. Proper shape impreza for me!!!!!

wrxjoy

David, Hi
I also have a mk2 Golf Gti (well the wife does)in addition to the scooby. And a fantastic car it is, 135k miles drives like new. The car never fails to make me smile, loads of feed back, a real drivers car.
I think though, we are all missing the point, power is nothing without control. No matter how much power you can squeeze out of a golf, you will never get it to handle like a scooby.
As you said you have never tried one, my advice is go out there and do it soon. Then you will, I guarantee also feel the same, these car go round corners in a science defying fashion. Almost everytime I drive it, I am completly gob-smacked, you should not be able to do this, in what is after all a mondeo money car(apart from insurance).

sandycam

iTrader: (1)

I had mk2 golf gti before moving to a scoob my99 and although it wasn't as good (silly!) spec as your in a straight line the difference in handling was a mile. Not just in the speed carried into and through corners but in the confidence i had in the car and of course it was something else on the way out of the corners. Go and have a shot of one, just make sure you can afford to buy a good one, the insurance and the petrol!

billy boy

My mate has a 16v astra full race engine including throttle bodies I think the bottom end was bored out to a 2.2 using omega pistons and basically money no object and still the scooby see's it off a waste off money if you ask me especially when you can buy scooby for less than what you would spend on this and the scooby comes with the kind of power your tring to create.

Diablo

I'm not gonna be popular for this, but:

IF you get 260 bhp and IF you get good torque, with the right suspension set up and probably some form of traction control, I'd have to say yes, you will "waste" a standard uk scoob pre or post MY00.

A standard Sti or pre 01 WRX will be much closer, and you'll have no chance against a modded car with big bhp.

Assuming drivers of equal ability, that is.

You will have no chance from a standing start on traction alone, but once rolling and traction no issue, then in a straight line you will be quicker.

There was nothing in it once moving in my teg - v - uk scoob and it weighed appx 1000kg and had 190 ps. With less weight and more power/torque you will be quicker. No doubt about that.

It might not have had the traction, but the Teg *handled* better in standard form and was a little bit quicker along the twisties than my MY99 Scoob was in the dry. In the wet, the traction deficiency was such you couldn't get the power down at low speeds.

How does wheelspin at 80mph sound...LOL...

Now for the great misconception.

Scoobs cannot defy the laws of physics and a properly set up golf, with say, group a tarmac struts and springs will handle better and generate as much if not more lateral grip than a standard scoob. It just won't have the traction.

Thats a fact.

Good luck mate, I'm seriously toying with the idea of building an ultimate mini which will (up to 100 at least) waste a uk Scoob. (just as a performance benchmark, you understand )

D



[Edited by Diablo - 4/16/2002 11:06:14 PM]

ChrisC

Raw power is not everything.
It is as everybody says what you can do with it and with a Scooby you CAN do more.
As my garage said when I looked at an MR2 Turbo - "Yes they are quick but compared to your car they are a pig to drive. Even an idiot can drive your car quickly" - and they were selling it !
I've had two 4 wheel drive "performance" cars and I would back them against almost anything on the road for day to day delivery !
But then maybe I'm an idiot !

importsti

My StiV5 has 300BHP and very occasionaly I come up against some interesting modified cars. You can spend 10K and modify virtually any standard car. I like the fact that Subaru and STI have done the work for me in a proven and more importantly, reliable package. Unbelievable Strong car a Scoob.

The level of street respect a newish STi has is phenomenal.
The only time I have ever been done from the lights on a clear road was against a modified new Astra turbo coupe the other week and even then I was busy fiddling with the stereo at the time.
0-60 mph in a decent scoob will waste most cars.

Drive an STi and you'll see what the fuss is about (especially at today's prices)

CraigH

Not quite a real comparison, but 2wd Rally kit cars normally always cane the heavy 4wd WRC jobs on tarmac.......

Disagree with whats said about not standing a chance against modded cars....

Ollies S2 RS Turbo was only half a second lower 60-100mph than mine.....that's not exactly wasted is it?

If it's properly setup then once rolling it's gonna be v v quick, no mistake.

david_h

Certainly created some interest this topic.
True power is no good without handling, that's why I have fully adjustable coilovers.
Additonaly depends on weight balance, a scooby will always handle better than a Golf as it has more weight up the back to counterbalance the engine being up front. This is why the Jetta handles better than the golf, and why a VR6 engine in a Mk2 screws up the handling to much.
4wd is vastly superior in the wet, but in the dry a lot of power is lost through the drive train.

TopBanana

I used to have a Mk2 golf with racing anti-roll bars, Koni shocks and slightly harder springs than std - I've never driven or been in a car that could negotiate a bend faster!

GP

this is a good thread..

I have a very similar spec mk2 astra - wild engine spec (throttle bodies etc), quaife LSD, suspension and geometry all done, stripped, corner weighted, cage etc etc, but not coilovers - yet, it's basically setup for the track.

I've found that for this type of car, the quicker you make it in the dry on nice roads, the worse it's going to get (a) in the wet & (b) on rough surfaces

try to punt it down a potholed subsiding B road which has lost it's surface and you'll end up in a ditch - likewise in the wet - forget it - good fun mind, just a complete joke w/regards to actually going quick (in proper terms)

however in the right conditions it's a very quick car indeed - I think that's true of pretty much any old hatch with (by todays standards) primitive suspension.

btw, you won't get 240 bhp, let alone 260, if the cam comes in @ 4000rpm - what's the spec ? - I built my new engine to be as tractable as possible, and about 230bhp is the most you can expect whilst retaining any semblance of a 'flat' curve - and that's with taper throttles too, not parallels, which are worse for bottom end torque.

Blackscooby

Its interesting to watch Harewood Hillclimb. There's a seriously moddied Pug 205, and a clio williams which regularly take part.

The mad 205 and mad clio managed 68.77 seconds last season thats over a 1448 metre course (twisty and hilly!) there really isn't **THAT** much in it between the lighter FWD cars and Impreza's.

I take part in a Modified 205 GTi, my best time is 70.89. However my best time in a subaru (UK94) running 1.4bar boost and Bilstien Coilover suspension really isn't much below 69 seconds.

The starts are amazingly different. Scoob 5500Rpm and quickly bring clutch up.

Pug dial in at most 3000 and gently bring clutch up, change to second early and floor it. Spinning all the way through the revs.......

There's a mad Saphire Cosworth in the same class as the Impreza and it runs the course in something like 65 seconds, but the guy is a certifable nutter

RaZe-=Buzz=-

Insurance - have to just add that fully comp for me and the missus on a my96 standard turbo is just over 500 per year - I paid nearly that much for an F reg SRi Cavalier a few years back and then 460 for a 1994 2.o ghia mondeo hatch back in 2000, so I was VERY pleased with the first "moderate" scoob premium of 600 and it got less this year . And Im also STILL blown away by it every time I drive it, especially after my A4 diesel slug company car.

How do you guys even GET insurance quotes after all the mods that seem to be done to everyone's car except mine? I'd LOVE to spend a few quid on the Scoob, but it'd have to be engine or suspension stuff cos Im happy with leather and overall looks. Cant afford to change for a "facelift" and dont want a bug eye one anyway....And whats the first insurance question? "Any modifications?"..

Nice to hear about ANY car that goes like a real car should - there are too many shopping trollies on the road anyway. And pay no heed to the "do down others before they do down unto you" brigade. They get everywhere, and should be exiled for being sad and narrow minded. Its your car, you like it, so who cares bout them? Some here CAN appreciate what you've got.

Buzz