Matteeboy

Slightly random but it's been in my head for a while - some cars, even non sporty ones just feel "right" - you can waffle on above under and oversteer, chassis dynamics, etc and be swayed by journos but I often find the actual experience is not what I expected.

I think factors like:

Where you sit in the car (the near the middle (from front to back) the better)
The steering feedback
The brake feel
The damping

...all have an effect but sometimes it just feels right or it doesn't.

So in my silly little mind I've set a percentage of "rightness" to cars I've driven more than 50 miles (enough to get a good idea) - this is how confident you feel in a car's abilities - for example my Saxo VTR was utterly chuckable. Not very fast but had a lovely chassis and got driven hard with no fear. My Golf R32 was a lot quicker but for some reason, I just never felt 100% confident in it - gearstick is too far back and the chassis just didn't communicate enough.

Feel free to tell me to STFU but I guessed some might be of a similar mindset.

So a few examples are:

Current 335d - 95% - can put it where you want, beautifully balanced, nice feedback, slightly scary torque through RWD can unsettle it and it's not a manual so not 100%

Golf R32 - 75% - grippy, quick, great engine but just not connected enough

Astra 1.9CDTi - 85% - lightish, pointy and a good chassis but feedback limited

Evo FQ360 - 90% - a real drivers car but the limits are so high that you'd be mad to really test them. Very impressive though

And some odd ones:

Current Nissan Micra (!) - 85% - this amazed me. Really nice handler
Suzuki Swift - 90% - lovely handling and good feedback
Vauxhall Vectra 2.0 hire car (2500 miles driven) - 25% - terrible and unpredictable handling
Mk2 Golf GTi - 70% - raved about but I found other cars more confidence inspiring. Good but nothing special.
BMW 750i - 85% - amazing for such a big car. Feels much smaller than it is.
Ford Focus ST170 - 85% - brilliant chassis that needs a better engine
Ford Focus ST (current) - 75% - nice handling but heavy engine needs prodding and the weight on the steered wheels is obvious

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

I have found some of the most fun / feel right cars have been the least powered cars I
have had.

Pug 306GTI6, 90% lovely peaky engine superb chassis and new its limits without ever exceeding them.

Toyota Mr2 Mk1 1.6 16V. 95% Best chassis and handling car I have had bar an elise.!

Blast from the past but Escort RS1600I, 95% Stunning handling for an 80's car and could virtually drive it flat out into a corner down an 'A' road and would soak it up.

Plenty of others but the theme runs through, i.e all lesser powered lighter and smaller cars.

stilover

Audi R8. - 99.9%

Everything feels just perfect, from the seating position, to the steering/brakes, and the handling is fantastic. It's build beautifully too.

Plus the noise....................... what a noise.



106GTI - 95%

Cheap dash board, and cramped peddles = -5%

Handling = 100%

Matteeboy

Ah yes - I must add the last shape MR2 - 92% - brilliant chassis and pretty light with lovely steering. Just needed a wee bit more oomph.

Not sure if it's only lightness though -that 750i was over 1800kgs yet felt very nimble.

belliott69

iTrader: (3)

peugrot 306 d-turbo s, 90% great chassis, punchy diesel and stunning tourque for an old diesel, still my favourite car i've owned.

SPEN555

1991 Mini Cooper, 95% what a hoot and passengers just in hysterics says it all Potential death trap in an accident though
1998 106 GTi, 100% Don't think you can get better handling/chuckability?

pslewis

MX5's feel right

Honda Civic's do too!

Impreza - of course

[-(o)-]

iTrader: (1)

I think a lot of this comes down to the driver environment. Seating and controls, which so often seems to be overlooked. The thing that lets the Impreza down is the complete lack of feel (as standard) through the wheel and brake pedal.

If you've ever driven a single seater, you'll know what I mean. Theres a directness and instant response from the controls that just feels so rewarding. Yes this is hard to mimic in a road car as you've so much compliance, but a few manage. For some reason they're often French!

Turbo2

Not in a 22B: you can pretty much feel the exoskeleton of every ant being crushed by the front wheels as you head off down the road. TBH there's too much feel for most folk, since they tramline like nobody's business. You really have to take it by the scruff of the neck, but when you do it's truly sublime. I'd say it's easily the quickest and most competent point-to-point car I've ever been in.

Matteeboy

For true steering feedback, you need to ditch power steering -but that wouldn't sell many cars. Electrical assistance is the bane of feedback IMO - luckily the Bimmer has none (but all models "below" the 335i and 335d do have it). It kills the CTRs steering and so many other cars too.

The Evo I tested had a decent amount of it - for me the quickest point to point car I've driven (Evo 9 FQ 360).

Driven a few fastish Audis and I just don't trust them. Same with the mk4 Golfs (R32 was better though) - they were dreadful for confidence boosts.

355 I drove a few times should have been "right" but somehow it just didn't do it for me - tramlined dreadfully and just felt too wide for sensible driving.

SimonD

I don't know about percentages but the most "together" car I've driven is the original Ford Ka.
I agree that it is usually lower powered cars that fell better. In so-called performance cars one aspect usually overwhelms the rest. It is rarely the fastest or most expensive car of a model range that gives the best experience. Usually something with a torquey engine smaller wheels and a bit less weight will give the best driving experience.

richs2891

Another one for the MX5,
Lotus Elise
Lotus Evora - I want one of these now !
Porsche 911 C2
Richard

BOB.T

I utterly loved my M reg Fiesta si

Not the fastest thing in the world but sooooo much fun and having driven it for 7 years and over 100,000 miles I knew it inside out!

I'm currently having dilemas over what car to get next, the Focus ST is great, love it to bits but!!! It's just too fast and capable! By the time you're exploring what it can do you're just going too quickly, especially as I need to be able to drive for work!

My latest thinking is a new Fiesta zetec S... or a cossie mkII Escort but I doubt that would be practical for an everyday car!

Can the likes of Ferraris and Lambos be, responsibly, enjoyed on our roads?

geesta

My Focus ST is too fast to be enjoyed too. I think lower power cars with great handling are a hoot, the Wife's 106 was great, I enjoyed so much I gave her the scoob and used that as my daily.

106 GTI = 95%

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Renault Alpine GTA - 80%. Light, and low centre of gravity with large rear 255 tyres which the power was provided too from a mid/rear 2.8 engine, plenty torque and good fun but the front being light with very little weight over the 185 wheels felt uncomfortable in poor weather conditions. Good fun though and rare looks

Playsatan

iTrader: (2)

Already mentioned a couple of times but the 106 gti must come top of the list. Usable power plus the sweetest handling I've ever experienced.

I bought one new in 97 and another one last year as a run around. I could have more fun in it that my 500+ hp type r.

fatherpierre

The only car I have had that felt right is a BMW E36 328i coupe.

Lovely driving position; lovely and snug; build quality felt nice, and (an auto) pulled perfectly with a creamy staight 6 feel. Far better looking that anything that has preceeded, too.

Not so quick, but had a nice feel for the overall package & was excellent for the driver.

Did near 40mpg on a run with the cruise control on.

Written off by a London bus, so I'm left with a rattly T5 that is miles better on motorways, but doesn't compare for the overall living with thing.

I only do sub £1000 cars, btw . Don't need anything else for my use.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The 106 may feel right but so did the 206 GTI 180, both have horrid pedals that are offset to one side, so to me it doesnt feel right at all
Try a 306 Rallye, pedals aint offset and the feedback is very good.

Tony

dpb

230e estate , no effort required whatsoever

MICAWRX

+1 RS1600i ...had one, loved it, want one in my garage.

Also, Bit of a sleeper and not real fast... 306 XSi 2.0 (1994 ish) Gripped like stink and embarrassed many cars. FWD with big lift off oversteer... pick your line..foot down

MICAWRX

+1 MX5 - had one for 6 months as second car 1.6 90 horse.. much more 'fun' than any of my 3 Imprezas

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Yes got to say my MK3 Series 1 RS Turbo was loads of fun, easily power upgraded too... I know we are rolling back around 25yrs here, but the grip and power for the car was awesome, nothing compared to modern cars NOW of course. Shame they were FWD though.

Always wanted a MK1 & Mk2, my dad must have had around 20 or 30 MK1's & Mk2's most running with BDA & BDG's. Now you cannot pick up a decent shell for less that 10k. The one that turns up at TOTB (white) and im sure ive seen a blue one was awesome to watch, 500bhp was it .

PS,
Simon mcKinley is worth a watch on youtube......

njkmrs

Renault 5GT Turbo .
One of the most fun cars I have had .Stuck to the road like "Snot to a blanket" .

lunar tick

iTrader: (2)

I drove a JDM Civic Type-R (the new one - FD2) the other day; OMG, such a balanced chassis and razor sharp steering. And while it lacked grunt, the sound of the engine at 8500rpm is to die for

_Tim_

I rate my 535d MSport at 96.42%.

Matteeboy

I guess it would be higher if you didn't have a six year old, lower powered old model that's prone to turbo failure (unlike the newer higher powered version) and is probably still on run flat tyres?

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Very wierd.

I posted on this thread yesterday but there is no evidence of it.

Highly rated for me...

Peugeot 205 1.1 - tiny engine, brilliant chassis

BMW 530d E39 - one of the most complete, well balanced cars ever made

Alfasud - simply brilliant - years ahead of its time - one of the finest chassis ever

Consistently failing to have that 'rightness' - every Audi I have had the misfortune to drive - not bad as a passenger - awful as a driver.

Matteeboy

Trout - how about the E39 M5? Not driven one but never heard a bad word about them.

Simon K

Ive found cars that I didnt expect much from, to reward me the most.

Im currently using a MG ZR Td, bascially a Rover 200 3 door diesel. Build quality is poor, but the ride is so sharp and the diesel torque / surge is tremendous.

I find my M3 evo convertible unrewarding. Cost me ££££££ back in 98, but Ive never truely enjoyed driving it. Never felt 100% comfortable, as the steering needs in / out adjustment aswell as the standard up and down. Although I'll never sell it, I feel cost of ownership, against smile factor, is pretty low.

Mkiv Supra Twin Turbo - Amazing power, very comfortable, and was a great car to drive, live with. I did over 60K miles in my one before I passed it on to my brother. Rapid performance, tremendous reliablity.

Rover 220 Turbo - Although poor quality, the balant turbo boost was most addictive.

Ive spent big cahs on cars, and ultimately, cheaper cars seem to far more rewarding.

SBK

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Must have special side windows ... awesome stuff!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d01VBR5nKPw

TX.