Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Here's the scenario:

You've worked for a company for 10 years and had a company car throughout that time with no mileage or colour restrictions. The suddenly, just as you're about to get a new company car they change the rules.

• You can have any car as long as it's on the list
• It has to be white
• You cannot opt out of the scheme as you are in a 'public facing role'. My ****
• You sign up for four years with a financial penalty if you leave the scheme before then
• You are restricted to 18k private miles in the first two years
• You are restricted to 16k private miles the third year
• You are restricted to 12k private miles the fourth year
• You can have a company car up to the value of £245 per month
• You can add options up to £60 per month of YOUR OWN money
• You will pay company car tax
• You can have a 'free' liveried vehicle but will pay tax on it if you take it home. No other use is permitted

Now, you do 18k private miles a year on average just getting to and from work, this doesn't include any other journeys.

None of the cars really suit your needs, you want a family sized 4x4 and there isn't one. The best thing on the list is an Octavia VRs but you need to put £60 of your own money into it.

You need two cars in the family, one each, to use as and when.

What would you do? Would you take the cheapest car on the list and buy a 4x4 (borrowing the money)?

Would you take the best car you can get - Octavia VRs and stump up £60 of your own money and forget the 4x4 although it's want you really want then buy a small runaround as the second car?

Other ideas?

I'm stumped

We were all set to opt out but they just changed the rules (in secret so it appears ) and that is no longer an option. The extra £300+-ish a month would've paid for the large family 4x4. The small economical mile muncher for the other half to use for work would've been paid for by the sale of my Scoob.

All suggestions appreciated but I've already considered shooting the employer thanks

scooby L

Just read this on the "other" website.. not ideal.

take the cheapest company car and get what u want (D3 )

Andy M3

I would get some legal advice. Not sure about:

"You cannot opt out of the scheme as you are in a 'public facing role'."

Someone in the know will, for a fee, outline what's correct and incorrect. I would get out and charge 40p/mile for company use.

PARKERS CC Calculator:
vRS 5 door dsg p11D value = £20,800.00

Your £60
Monthly tax = £152.60 x 48 = £7324.80 + £60 = £7384.80 sub total.
Cash Equivalent Value = £4578.00/year x 4 = £18312.00

£25,696.80 total paid for a car you give back!?!?!?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

The maths is making my heard hurt Andy, I've read your sums, that seems a hell of a lot

Meanwhile I've been through the official list with a fine toothed comb and made a shortlist:

• Audi A3 Diesel Sportback 1.6 TDI Sport 5Dr - 105hp Nice kit, nice looking but slow? Looks good in white.
  
• Honda Accord Diesel Saloon 2.2 I-dtec ES 4Dr - 148hp Bit boring but nice spec. Erm...
  
• Mazda3 Diesel Hatchback 2.2d Sport 5Dr - 150hp Nice looking, best spec, BOSE as standard! But in white?
  
• Skoda Octavia Diesel Hatchback 2.0 TDI CR vRS 5Dr - 170hp Fastest here? Good spec. White though?
  
• Skoda Octavia Diesel Hatchback 2.0 TDI PD Elegance 5Dr Eu4 - 140hp Got one of these already, nice spec & comfy. Looks like a taxi in white!
  
• Skoda Yeti Diesel Estate 2.0 TDI CR Elegance 5Dr - 110hp Only 2WD, slow? But good spec. Suits white.

I've ordered brochures (glossies are better to browse than a PDF ) and will have to arrange some test drives. Maybe one will jump out at me?

Mr Hatch, you're dead right you know

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

I've looked through the 'rules' again and there's nothing to say that you can't put black viper stripes on your white car...

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Sorry, but thats a pretty horrid list of cars. None of them are going to set your world on fire in the performance stakes, so have to say for me it might as well be the slowest and the A3 sportback. At least you will have nice looking car, thats built well that feels remotely special.

Have to say can't understand the philosphy behind white car only but I'm sure there is a reason there somewhere. IS your firm a Taxi rank.!

stilover

As youre budget is 245 / month, and you have to pay extra for extra's, you really want a car that comes with a lot of kit to start with. So that'll rule out the Audi.

The obvious choice would be a Mondeo. Will come with loads of kit for the money, but they do look sh!te in White.

Does the car have to be Brand new? If not maybe a dealer has an ex-demo of a better car / spec that'll meet your £245 / month budget.

With Ford, barring in mind you'd like AWD, you might geta Kuga TDI with lots of kit. Plus they look pretty OK in White. Local Ford dealer has a White one on the Forecourt, and it doesn't look too bad.

Devildog

Sal - can you get a 1 series BM? they look good in white.

BTW - I think you'll find its contrary to employment law to force you to take one and then to penalise you if you leave before 4 years. You either should not have to take a car or face penalties if you do and then leave before the term is up.

If you absolutely have to take one, if you use it only for work related travel you won't be taxed for the benefit in kind, so you could leave it at work and buy your own car for commuting and personal use.

If you establish they are wrong and you don't have to take the car, you probably won't have the right to ask for the cash equivalent, unless your contract says otherwise.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Don't apologise Rob, I agree And that lot above are the best of a bad bunch! The company have never stipulated a colour before but all their operational vans are white and the company logo is black on a white background, oh and staff have to wear a white shirt, although they're talking about changing that to blue

Perhaps they're planning to break into the taxi market?

Devildog

Andy,

Sal's not paying the cash equivalent. So its £7,384 for 4 years motoring which would be significantly less than the depreciation on a £20k car

stilover

What are the car's on the list?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

The list does include some 1 Series but I dismissed them as too small for a main car. There are also Fords but the other half doesn't like them apparently. I want something that feels a bit special and is good for off road nobbering but there is nothing on the list that even comes close.

I'd like to tell them to stick their white car up their @rse and go out and buy exactly what I want (Disco D3) and a small mile munching ecoshed but they say that's against the rules. Other than that the option is to go for a really cheap list car and buy a Disco. But are we cutting our noses off to spite our faces?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

It's a long list! Think of every boring diesel eco car under 150g/km and you pretty much have the list. If you really want to see it I can host it somewhere?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that sounds better We worked it out last night to a similar-ish figure. I think! Whatever way you look at it, the cost probably works out cheaper than deprecation on a new car. But what about a three to four year old car that's already lost a big chunk i.e. Disco D3?

mamoon2

Any pick-ups on the list? No tax on these

Andy M3

No, she is losing out on the cash equivalent too. If she doesn't have a company car in theory she get's the £4578.00 a year salary increase. In addition she saves the £152.60 a month she was going to pay adding a further £1831.20 to that £4578.00 over a 12 month period. This is based on parkers CC tax calculator.

RobEvo5

iTrader: (9)

Any seat Leon's on the list ?. Basically an Audi, but more toys for the money, and the new Leon looks v.nice IMO especially the reference sport.! Not a big car outside, but plenty roomy enough on the inside.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

No Seats, no pick-ups. It's mainly:

Audi A3
BMW 1 Series
Peugeot
Ford
Honda
Mazda
Skoda
VW

It's up to a max value of approximately 22k and anything with high emissions, petrol engines or in any remotely way described as fun isn't on there Before you all shout "get a Golf TDi or Honda Civic" they're too small. We tested one recently but it just wasn't big enough.

The list is a great cure for insomnia

I SOOOO want to opt out.

MMT WRX

Sal,

How are you going to get round that for a start?

If you're already doing the maximum allowed mileage just travelling to and from work, then add the business miles you would do a year.

Somethings got to give.

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

We can go over the 18k private miles but it will cost us 7p per mile (taken directly out of salary) which is on top of fuel costs. I'm trying to work out what the cost to us will be at 7p per mile on our mileage above 18k, and whether that figure will be higher or lower than the cost of owning a car privately taking into consideration depreciation, tax, insurance, fuel costs, servicing etc.

The company miles are unlimited.

The difficulty is working out exactly what our private mileage over and above the 18k (16k year 3 and 12k year 4) will be. I think it'll be somewhere in the region of 5 - 10k.

It would definitely be easier to just shoot the employer

Devildog

Its not a cost though Andy, as without the car Sal is no better off unless there was a salary equivalent - which there isn't in this case.

The only direct cost to Sal is the tax and any extras she pays for.

Sal gets paid X, plus she gets a car. The £4578 is simply the value of the benefit in kind.

If she had to take a car and had to suffer a salary deduction of £275 per month for it, then your calculation would be correct.

hodgy0_2

pretty outrageous by the looks of it

seems bordering on the illegal - to force you, then penalise you

I suppose thats what unions were for in ye olde days

Devildog

120D BMW is fantastic if you can get one in the price range?

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

The best on the list is the 118d SE 5Dr

SPEN555

For the extras pay for a vinyl wrap in Black will still say white on the V5 LOL

Scoobychick

iTrader: (1)

SPEN555, liking your style

Jamescsti

Why not just take the free liveried vehicle, and leave it at work then just buy what you want to? Would you still pay tax in these circumstances?

NotoriousREV

As above. Buy the car you want, use that to commute etc. Use the liveried vehicle for work journeys and pay no tax.

I'm sure that they can't enforce the personal mileage bit, especially if you do more than that just to get to work and back.

If I were in your situation, I'd talk to the HR Manager and explain that the rules are unacceptable to me and that either they would need to change the rules or I wouldn't be taking a company car and nor would I be using my personal car for work purposes unless they were going to be paying me for the privilege. I wouldn't complain about the colour or the cars in the list, but the mileage and financial penalty for 4 years is completely unenforceable from an employment law perspective. These are penalties that the company has to pay to the lease company, not you.

rookymatt

iTrader: (15)

Is it me, or has everyone also forgotten about the added cost of insurance, road tax, servicing if she got her own car???
I work for bmw and there really isn't much difference between the 118 and 120d. They do have an absolutely rubbish ammount of boot space though!!

Timwinner

iTrader: (3)

I dont do employment law but I am fairly sure you can challenge that. If you have not signed a new contract underlining that as part of your employment you except the compulsory car deductions then no one can (apart from CSA and the tax man and courts) can garnish your wages, and effectively thats what they are doing.

If you have a rep (unison type thing) go to them, if not talk to HR and ask for the contract you signed agreeing to these new terms, if they cant produce then you can opt out.