Audi A4 clutch death
03 February 2010, 11:50 AM
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Audi A4 clutch death
I'm after opinions before I get the phonecall from Audi about this and am interested in what people think:
Bought an approved A4 (3.0TDi) from Audi and had a few issues with it - all sorted and I'm very happy. Finally got the car just before Christmas
Go in to get a Revo remap
and the guy runs VAG COM and finds the clutch switch is faulty. Which explains the lazy revs when changing gear.
Get the remap done and find that there is a vibration when accelerating in a higher gear (eg when overtaking on a dual carriageway) which goes when you reduce the throttle.
Take it back - diags clean, turns out to that the dual mass flywheel is on the way out (this is the opinion of private garage AV Performance in Burton, the guy who did the remap) and that was caused by the clutch switch burning the clutch plates... etc, etc
Now the thing is - I DID notice the clutch slipping when I first got the car, and DID send an email complaining because I thought it was the driver who dropped the car off. I later retracted this as I did it as well and thought it was me leaning on the clutch pedal.
Turns out it's not.
So given the timescales, and nature of the fault: Sale of Goods / Warranty (which does NOT cover clutch plate wear) / HUGE bill (circa £1500)
Also note the problems were noted BEFORE the remap.
Bought an approved A4 (3.0TDi) from Audi and had a few issues with it - all sorted and I'm very happy. Finally got the car just before Christmas
Go in to get a Revo remap
and the guy runs VAG COM and finds the clutch switch is faulty. Which explains the lazy revs when changing gear.Get the remap done and find that there is a vibration when accelerating in a higher gear (eg when overtaking on a dual carriageway) which goes when you reduce the throttle.
Take it back - diags clean, turns out to that the dual mass flywheel is on the way out (this is the opinion of private garage AV Performance in Burton, the guy who did the remap) and that was caused by the clutch switch burning the clutch plates... etc, etc
Now the thing is - I DID notice the clutch slipping when I first got the car, and DID send an email complaining because I thought it was the driver who dropped the car off. I later retracted this as I did it as well and thought it was me leaning on the clutch pedal.
Turns out it's not.
So given the timescales, and nature of the fault: Sale of Goods / Warranty (which does NOT cover clutch plate wear) / HUGE bill (circa £1500)
Also note the problems were noted BEFORE the remap.
03 February 2010, 11:59 AM
#2
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No chance with clutches. 
My Focus ST has one of the famous 07 slipping clutches which only slips when the remap is loaded up, so I'm not too worried about that as it's self inflicted and only £900 for an RS clucth & flywheel.
Our 2006 Civic also has the famous Honda slipping clutch and that annoys me much more as it's a std car owned from near new with only 33k miles on. :angry:
But, the Civic does only slip when it's very cold outside so it could just be power/torque increase due to colder air. That bill is anything between £1k for just clutch to £2.5k for clutch/flywheel!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O
Clutch never gets done under warranty unless it's a brand new car and slips as you drive off IMO, manufs. will always try and get out of it.
Good luck with it though.
My Focus ST has one of the famous 07 slipping clutches which only slips when the remap is loaded up, so I'm not too worried about that as it's self inflicted and only £900 for an RS clucth & flywheel.
Our 2006 Civic also has the famous Honda slipping clutch and that annoys me much more as it's a std car owned from near new with only 33k miles on. :angry:
But, the Civic does only slip when it's very cold outside so it could just be power/torque increase due to colder air. That bill is anything between £1k for just clutch to £2.5k for clutch/flywheel!!!!!!!!!!!!! :O
Clutch never gets done under warranty unless it's a brand new car and slips as you drive off IMO, manufs. will always try and get out of it.
Good luck with it though.
03 February 2010, 12:04 PM
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I would think about 1000 miles, but note the clutch WAS slipping from the moment I bought it.
Just found and saved the email that complained about the slipping clutch the day I picked the car up.
Last edited by Kieran_Burns; 03 February 2010 at 12:11 PM.
03 February 2010, 12:23 PM
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What a pain!
How is the car otherwise? It was the model I most seriously looked at but decided on the Beemer in the end.
Does it drive/handle well? Pretty quick? What's the mpg like?
How is the car otherwise? It was the model I most seriously looked at but decided on the Beemer in the end.
Does it drive/handle well? Pretty quick? What's the mpg like?
03 February 2010, 12:32 PM
#6
My Saab slips its clutch post remap, but not all the time, it has a few days then sorts itself out, full beans in any gear on acold crisp day and no slip, other times it slips on part throttle.
I will probably change it in the summer but I hardly use it so can live with it occasionally slipping, seems to be a common theme with remapped motors, my cousings Leon FR was done and was pushing nearly 200 bhp with 300 and odd llbs ft but it just overwhelmed the clutch in no time so is now standard again.
So, basically, add the cost of a clutch onto your remap, put it away and then when you have done with the car and not needed a clutch then you can release the cash.
I think on yours Kieran, you can try but I dont think you will get anywhere, I would see if there is an uprated clutch for your car and bite the bullet.
I will probably change it in the summer but I hardly use it so can live with it occasionally slipping, seems to be a common theme with remapped motors, my cousings Leon FR was done and was pushing nearly 200 bhp with 300 and odd llbs ft but it just overwhelmed the clutch in no time so is now standard again.
So, basically, add the cost of a clutch onto your remap, put it away and then when you have done with the car and not needed a clutch then you can release the cash.
I think on yours Kieran, you can try but I dont think you will get anywhere, I would see if there is an uprated clutch for your car and bite the bullet.
03 February 2010, 12:58 PM
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(2006 B7 model), Bose sound, two tone full leather, built in window blinds (including an electronic one on the rear windscreen) dual climate yada yada....Standard is 233 bhp / 310ft/lbs this is now meant to be about 270/380 (need a RR to confirm, but it pulls like hell now, you can get to illegal speeds before you know if you need to blip past someone... and it blips past, no fuss and the engine growl is gorgeous - and this a Diesel!)
Economy even on the 10/11 mile journey to work I average 43-45mpg ish. It's actually an effort to get the thing below 40mpg
On a motorway cruise I'll see 50mpg which for a 3 ltr is just weird! I've seen over 700 miles range from the trip comp, but this is always optimistic
Very comfortable when you take the time to get the seat right, eats up the miles, and I'm VERY glad i picked this model.
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03 February 2010, 01:45 PM
#8
I've tried getting a new clutch off VW and failed, I doubt Audi will be any different; Initial fault was a loud clonk noise when changing gear. Diagnosed as a dual mass flywheel problem, a very common problem on any VAG car with a DMF. IMO it didn't sound like a DMF failing (its a slightly different clonk), but hey-ho they were the experts.
Upon replacement they found the clutch to be excessively worn. This car has 26K miles on the clock. They claim the damage is from abuse. To kill a clutch in 26K is not impossible, but its no mean feat by any standards, and the clutch's operation felt no different to the new unit I have now (in fact the new one judders very slightly where the original didn't). I inspected and measured the clutch personally. I was in disbelief that it was my clutch as it was in such a poor state yet when in use still felt and performed perfectly. I found several springs on pressure plate had dropped and the discs were unevenly worn, indicating it wasn't making even and full contact with the flywheel/cover plates, combined with signs of overheating. The witness marks on the cover and flywheel back that up. Maybe a prior fault caused the excessive wear thats since been rectified before I purchased the car, or indeed a issue relating to the noise that is alledged to be the DMF. Who knows, its my word against theirs.
Still VAG warranty services insisted that their warranty tech's opinion of abuse is the only correct assumption, and I'm getting a bagain as I don't need to pay labour on the clutch replacement (I shouldn't need to pay anything, seeing that I've cover 1200miles in the car since purchasing it). Given this was a second hand car, even though purchased from a VAG dealer, I sucked up the cost as one of those things, and in the end I have peice of mind that a potential future problem is now resolved (the clutch wouldn't have lasted too long in its present state, even if I am mechanically sympathetic).
Guess what? Car dropped off, I drove it round the block, changed into third gear "CLONK", exactly the same as before
So it wasn't the DMF, nor the clutch.
The story continues.....(as does the clonking). Otherwise fantantic car, just marred by the dealer's managerial ineptitude to put it right. I sometimes wonder why the hell did I bother buying a car with a warranty when we have our own garage.
There are alternative clutch options, I've been informed by a mate who is an Audi tech (unfortunately not VW - pity) that solid flywheel/clutch kits have a shorter lifespan to the OE unit. How that is I don't know, could be just dealer gossip (it does happen). We've fitted solid flywheels to high mile Mondeos and Transits for ages with no ill effect, nor noticeble difference in driveability/vibration/durability.
Upon replacement they found the clutch to be excessively worn. This car has 26K miles on the clock. They claim the damage is from abuse. To kill a clutch in 26K is not impossible, but its no mean feat by any standards, and the clutch's operation felt no different to the new unit I have now (in fact the new one judders very slightly where the original didn't). I inspected and measured the clutch personally. I was in disbelief that it was my clutch as it was in such a poor state yet when in use still felt and performed perfectly. I found several springs on pressure plate had dropped and the discs were unevenly worn, indicating it wasn't making even and full contact with the flywheel/cover plates, combined with signs of overheating. The witness marks on the cover and flywheel back that up. Maybe a prior fault caused the excessive wear thats since been rectified before I purchased the car, or indeed a issue relating to the noise that is alledged to be the DMF. Who knows, its my word against theirs.
Still VAG warranty services insisted that their warranty tech's opinion of abuse is the only correct assumption, and I'm getting a bagain as I don't need to pay labour on the clutch replacement (I shouldn't need to pay anything, seeing that I've cover 1200miles in the car since purchasing it). Given this was a second hand car, even though purchased from a VAG dealer, I sucked up the cost as one of those things, and in the end I have peice of mind that a potential future problem is now resolved (the clutch wouldn't have lasted too long in its present state, even if I am mechanically sympathetic).
Guess what? Car dropped off, I drove it round the block, changed into third gear "CLONK", exactly the same as before
So it wasn't the DMF, nor the clutch. The story continues.....(as does the clonking). Otherwise fantantic car, just marred by the dealer's managerial ineptitude to put it right. I sometimes wonder why the hell did I bother buying a car with a warranty when we have our own garage.
There are alternative clutch options, I've been informed by a mate who is an Audi tech (unfortunately not VW - pity) that solid flywheel/clutch kits have a shorter lifespan to the OE unit. How that is I don't know, could be just dealer gossip (it does happen). We've fitted solid flywheels to high mile Mondeos and Transits for ages with no ill effect, nor noticeble difference in driveability/vibration/durability.
03 February 2010, 02:40 PM
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Kieran - sounds brilliant and you are getting much better mpg than me!
I think the Audi and BMW 6 pot soot chuckers are about the only ones that do genuinely sound good when pushed. Both cack on tickover but they do growl nicely when revved hard.
Ours has built in rear sun blinds too (they pull down on rollers and clip on) - a brilliant option. I HATE those crappy Mothercare stick on ones!
I think the Audi and BMW 6 pot soot chuckers are about the only ones that do genuinely sound good when pushed. Both cack on tickover but they do growl nicely when revved hard.
Ours has built in rear sun blinds too (they pull down on rollers and clip on) - a brilliant option. I HATE those crappy Mothercare stick on ones!
03 February 2010, 03:13 PM
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These blinds pull up from inside the door... which I was very surprised to see.
Well, wish me luck on the clutch front, given that I noted a slipping clutch when I got it AND a faulty clutch switch it may be that I win the argument
Well, wish me luck on the clutch front, given that I noted a slipping clutch when I got it AND a faulty clutch switch it may be that I win the argument
03 February 2010, 06:04 PM
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I don't think Audi fit particularly robust clutches. I had an A4 for a couple of years (previous generation to current model) and the clutch on that tended to judder when pulling off, especially on cold damp mornings. I changed it for an A3 (current generation) and once the weather got colder I found the same thing, but to a lesser extent.
I then got the A3 remapped (2.0 TDi - 140bhp to 175bhp mapped), but found if you accelerated hard in a high gear (ie in 6th on the motorway at 70) it would accelerate a bit, then the clutch just slipped... very annoying.
Sounds like you've certainly got a case with yours anyway, and if they don't repair that then what was the point in the warranty like you say? I'd keep on at them, and they'll give in sooner or later.
I then got the A3 remapped (2.0 TDi - 140bhp to 175bhp mapped), but found if you accelerated hard in a high gear (ie in 6th on the motorway at 70) it would accelerate a bit, then the clutch just slipped... very annoying.
Sounds like you've certainly got a case with yours anyway, and if they don't repair that then what was the point in the warranty like you say? I'd keep on at them, and they'll give in sooner or later.
04 February 2010, 10:49 AM
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My '06 A4 2.7Tdi into Dealer today to investigate 'burnt rubber' smell has been diagnosed with 'burnt clutch'. With 33k miles, Dealer attributed to 'driving style. Like others, burnt clutches are new to me so I think it sounds like Audi have a problem they are not admitting to?
04 February 2010, 11:20 AM
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Actually I have just remembered - a mate of mine's dad was Ops Director for a fairly big haulage firm - so he ran the car fleet too. They all went from Volvos to Audis for the more senior staff and many had 2.5TDIs (clearly old now).
They had SO many problems with clutches and gearboxes that well before they got out of the contract and went back to Volvos. These cars all had a hard life but it was still a bit of a pain having so many die - I think they had 70 of them.
Wreng - there is no way your clutch should have gone even if it's been used as a hire car and thrashed to death. Could it be a quattro issue? Too much strain on the clutch from having to drive all four wheels?
The 330d has a similar power and torque output but is RWD - not heard a single problem with clutches.
My own car has the drivetrain of an artic lorry (almost) to cope with all those torques...
They had SO many problems with clutches and gearboxes that well before they got out of the contract and went back to Volvos. These cars all had a hard life but it was still a bit of a pain having so many die - I think they had 70 of them.
Wreng - there is no way your clutch should have gone even if it's been used as a hire car and thrashed to death. Could it be a quattro issue? Too much strain on the clutch from having to drive all four wheels?
The 330d has a similar power and torque output but is RWD - not heard a single problem with clutches.
My own car has the drivetrain of an artic lorry (almost) to cope with all those torques...
Last edited by Matteeboy; 04 February 2010 at 11:22 AM.
04 February 2010, 01:38 PM
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won't audi spot a remap though if they test yr car and then attribute the burnt clutch to that ?
personally I will never have another vw/audi. not after 35 trips to vw in 18mths with a 9 mth old golf some yrs ago.
that had to have a new gearbox for a starter.
do not rate the cars/dealers at all in any form now.
how on earth can a car with stonking performance like my impreza be faultless yet your dead expensive audi be a bag of spanners that's going to cost a fortune to fix ????
personally I will never have another vw/audi. not after 35 trips to vw in 18mths with a 9 mth old golf some yrs ago.
that had to have a new gearbox for a starter.
do not rate the cars/dealers at all in any form now.
how on earth can a car with stonking performance like my impreza be faultless yet your dead expensive audi be a bag of spanners that's going to cost a fortune to fix ????
05 February 2010, 10:23 AM
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The clutch problem was diagnosed AS I went for the remap, plus I noted the problem on the very day I picked it up. I've copied the email I sent to my inbox so I can show it to Audi in case of arguments.
05 February 2010, 02:27 PM
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£14,300 and I got £2K for the Golf (which given its state was good value!)
Got a phone call from Audi earlier - they're recommending to the Warranty company to replace the clutch and flywheel Warranty company wanted to see the evidence (usual thing) and they're waiting for the go ahead before the no-cost work to me is done
I'm now REALLY tempted to get a Milltek fitted.... YouTube - Mad Audi A4 B7 3.0 TDI with Milltek exhaust and that's a diesel!
Got a phone call from Audi earlier - they're recommending to the Warranty company to replace the clutch and flywheel
Warranty company wanted to see the evidence (usual thing) and they're waiting for the go ahead before the no-cost work to me is done I'm now REALLY tempted to get a Milltek fitted.... YouTube - Mad Audi A4 B7 3.0 TDI with Milltek exhaust and that's a diesel!
That sound is awesome for a diesel, hell yeah, I now want one of those 
05 February 2010, 02:51 PM
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Had a chat with a guy who works at Milltek (based in Pride Park Derby) and he said they don't normally deal with the public, but if someone comes in asking they DO fit them
However, the guy that did the Revo remap and who accurately diagnosed the clutch fault ALSO does them and I think I should give him the business - he REALLY raved about the Milltek and quality of the work... £500 though.... hmmmmm
However, the guy that did the Revo remap and who accurately diagnosed the clutch fault ALSO does them and I think I should give him the business - he REALLY raved about the Milltek and quality of the work... £500 though.... hmmmmm
05 February 2010, 02:54 PM
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I was tempted to go the Milltek route on my R32. Was a bit worried about resale value though. Very highly regarded company.
If they don't deal with the public, who DO they deal with? The Army?!
If they don't deal with the public, who DO they deal with? The Army?!
08 February 2010, 11:32 AM
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moment of panic over!
For a while there was some question over the Warranty... the warranty company were dragging their heels over authorising. Now it's being done and I get the car back this afternoon
For a while there was some question over the Warranty... the warranty company were dragging their heels over authorising. Now it's being done and I get the car back this afternoon
08 February 2010, 11:49 AM
#24
Thats good 
A flywheel on those things is not cheap. Knowing that a 2.5tdi V6 flywheel is £430 (vs. £80 for the clutch), the 3.0 version is no doubt even more expensive.
Don't be afraid to ask for a copy invoice of the work done on behalf of the warranty folk (they don't always give you one) - comes in handy for future reference
A flywheel on those things is not cheap. Knowing that a 2.5tdi V6 flywheel is £430 (vs. £80 for the clutch), the 3.0 version is no doubt even more expensive.
Don't be afraid to ask for a copy invoice of the work done on behalf of the warranty folk (they don't always give you one) - comes in handy for future reference
Last edited by ALi-B; 08 February 2010 at 11:50 AM.
08 February 2010, 01:47 PM
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I was looking at £1.5K all in 
So as you can imagine I am very, very relieved!
I also (cheekily) asked if they could look at the main light switch.... the leds inside flicker and it's a little annoying. If not I'll buy a replacement (£50) and it's a breeze to fit... you push the switch IN when it is in the OFF position and rotate. The whole unit pops out.
So as you can imagine I am very, very relieved!I also (cheekily) asked if they could look at the main light switch.... the leds inside flicker and it's a little annoying. If not I'll buy a replacement (£50) and it's a breeze to fit... you push the switch IN when it is in the OFF position and rotate. The whole unit pops out.
08 February 2010, 06:19 PM
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muttermuttermutter
Clutch and flywheel done, now they've found a vibration coming from the back.... so no car.
I now have an A3 cabriolet while waiting for mine. I feel the gheyness creeping in.... dear..... Oh God!
Clutch and flywheel done, now they've found a vibration coming from the back.... so no car.
I now have an A3 cabriolet while waiting for mine. I feel the gheyness creeping in.... dear..... Oh God!