ROSSC

I was driving along minding my own business, when a cavalier turbo overtook me and started flashing his hazards at me.
I put the foot down and by the time i caught up with him i was doing 150 (on my own private road, of course) I was very surprised how quick these cars are.
Has anyone else had a like experience ?

scoobypig

Standard cars 2.0T 6spd crude 4x4 system. 0-60 6.4 149 mph, police used em a fair bit.(204 bhp)
Predictably poor handling and reliability. easily chipped to 230 or 250 hp. can go to 300 for short (very short!) time.

Tempting to race these fools but worth risking custodial sentence for Max Power losers?

akshay67

A cavalier turbo? I ain't seen one of them! You sure it weren't one of them carlton lotus jobbies which are stupidly fast!!

PS, can I have a go on your private road - must be pretty long to send you to 150mph!!!

IanW

I've got a Calibra 4x4 Turbo atm, Same Engine/4x4 system etc, I know of cars that are well over 300BHP and running reliably, however they are most of them now starting to show signs of age, with general wear and tear.

Also try finding one with the 4x4 system in 100% working order, not a small task!

ROSSC

To be honest i wont be racing him again, he was starting to endanger other drivers with his reckless undertaking etc.

I totaly agree with scoobypig, IF i was on a public road i could loose my license or worse in up in the clink.

mattski2

quick motors and I've still got a soft spot for GSi 2000's, although finding a good one could be a challenge now.

Had a bit of a shock with a Calibra turbo in my old MY94 - fast as ****!!!

Matt

JohnBarnesAndHisGloves

Ive only ever once seen a cav/calibra turbo with over 300 GENUINE bhp- that car was the cavalier running coworth managment, inlet manifold, rs turbo exhaust maniflod, turbo etc, and a big fromt mounted intercooler.

Fact is all these claimed 300+bhp calibras/cavs are not at all, the std injectors/managment are not good enough for 300bhp no matter what, and the inlet + exhaust manifolds, turbo, and inlet cooling systems are also woefully poor (even with the chargecooler setup they all seem to buy).

Thing is, the engine itself is superb with a great deal of potential (even in n/a form it can get 280odd bhp), it just needs all of the above mentioned stuff (and more) to be over 300bhp (id say well over 400bhp would be possible and drivable, even "relativley" reliable with the correct mods.

Unfortunatley, these claimed 300+bhp ones havent...

Anyway, best stop, this is a scooby forum, sorry!

JBAHG

IanW

There is a guy on here with the username Russs, he has a Phase III Tuning kit on his car and has RR print outs to prove it over 300BHP

Sparks

Well aware of phase kits and I'd avoid - too much to go into detail here, mail me if interested.

4x4 systems aren't *too* bad, just need looking after a bit, which sadly people don't do.

The car running cosworth management is a genuine +300bhp car and has been running for some years now.

The engines can be exploited alot further but few owners choose to change the management, so 280bhp is a "best" IMHO.

Handling isn't terrible ( well stock car is.. ) but isn't a patch on modern 4x4 turbo cars. Very predictable and "safe" - no lift off oversteer or any suprises.

Gareth Allan

there were a couple of cav turbos at a recent scottish rolling road day at star - against loads of imprezas making 250 - 300, one made 300 bhp (ish, high 290s anyway, or just over 300?).

I dont see any reason why a cav turbo cant be made to make 300bhp if a scooby can. Its the same basic starting point (for uk cars).

gareth

Sparks

Gareth,
Yes all those cars run phase kits I suspect. Cheap and cheerful tuning - not without its drawbacks.

Dr Hu

I wonder if it had Koni's:P

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

mate of mine has one of those engines in his nova running through the front wheels,on the dyno it only produced 178bhp in standard form(should be over 200!) so he fitted a hakman ecu upgrade and a bigger intercooler(cossie 4x4 one)and it now hits 240 bhp!!
mad if you ask me cos the bloody thing is dangerous,cant get traction until he is in 3rd gear and has bad under steer but he loves it and has more mods planned for it in the future.

Brendan Hughes

It's no good Dr Hu, people's memories are too short

Sparks

I know what hes on about

MattN

Koni's rule - I remember.

kingsley

Konis - that's interesting. I'm new to this forum so I don't know what's up with Konis. I have a Calibra for my sins and have just got rid of the Konis on it because they were just too bumpy.

Russ, the man with the 300bhp/333lb-ft Calibra Turbo knows that he's possibly on thin ice with this setup without lowering the compression etc. You wouldn't catch me doing that ...

kingsley

Standard management runs out of injector duration at approx 270bhp on the Cavalier/Calibra turbo. Green injectors allows them to go up to 320bhp but anything bigger causes rough idling. Maybe it's possible to do some clever tricks with fuel pressure but that all seems a bit messy?

Sparks

Kingsley, V6 right ?

276bhp allegedly, someones been talking to courtneay Thats their favourite line.

Best off dumping the motronic and switching to a fully mappable ECU, use whatever injectors you like then. Oh and use the map sensor for enrichment, rather than just for boost control.

kingsley

Yeah, 3.0 V6 with cams, flowed heads, etc. Not as quick as your tuned turbos but goes pretty well and is nice and tractable.

[Edited by kingsley - 3/19/2002 10:46:21 PM]

GP

if anyone is genuinely interested in the phase kits then come on over to www.migweb.co.uk - and have a few misconceptions put straight - Gav from Wallace performance can elaborate, I too was sceptical but must admit they do sound pukka and reliable mods, even though the standard ECU is retained.

Richie1

I have been on this board for a while now and never miss an opperchancity to wind up the Scooby lads Jus kidding ppl

As mentioned, the weak point of these cars is the management system. The Bosch Motronic 2.7 is a pernickety little bugger that dont like you messing around and so anything you do to up the power is met by the sod of an ECU turning it back down

The Phase Kits mentioned have fully re-programmed ECU chips which contain upped boost levels with correct fuelling maps as well and, in the higher power versions, include a very large (8.1 litre) front mounted intercooler. These kits are proven reliable 300+BHP products.


The "problem" that most Scoobies have with the top end in-gear acceleration (70-80MPH+ rolling start) is due to the short ratio gearbox (hence quick 0-60 times from even the 208BHP car). Imprezas would really benefit from a closely stacked 6 speed gearbox like the Getrag item thats in the Cavalier Turbo.


Weak 4x4 ?? Ok its had its problems but most of this was due to unforseen problems the transfer box would have and also lack of owner knowledge..... No 3 bearing on the Scooby turbo ?? Anyone remember the problems with this due to in-experience or lack of knowledge ?? Its plastered all over the early parts of this board


Now, due to greater owner knowledge and mechanical backup from specialists, these problems dont happen as much because simple maintenance can stop it happening. In fact you can get these transfer boxes uprated to cope with lots more power and even have it as a fixed split to anything you want (50:50, 60:40 etc etc)


The C20LET (and the N/A version - 20XE) is highly regarded by ppl in motorsport as one of the best engines ever designed/produced and this is FACT.


Lets face it, we are talking about 2, 2 litre turbocharged engines. There aint much difference between them really.


What I will say is this - if The Impreza Turbo can look as good and go as well as Cavalier/Calibra Turbos do after 10 years and 100,000+ miles of use then it'll be doing well.


Rich



[Edited by Richie1 - 3/20/2002 5:20:25 PM]

Richie1

Oh aye, forgot to say - the designers were out to lunch and let the apprentice design the intercooler placement (behind headlamp) which SERIOUSLY reduces power.

Even on a standard car, converting to a front mounted intercooler (FMIC) releases TONS of extra power. Here is an actual example rolling roaded at STAR Performance (my car before and after mods) -

My Standard Car - 204BHP, 218lb/ft at 0.6 bar boost (0.8 bar overboost)

My Standard Car with FMIC - 239BHP, 243lb.ft at 0.5 bar boost (0.7bar overboost)


With LESS boost I gained 35BHP and 25lb/ft.


239BHP and 243lb/ft is not bad from a 2 litre car running half a bar of boost



[Edited by Richie1 - 3/20/2002 7:53:49 PM]

CAVYTURBO270

here here richie

Wallace_Performance

Thought that I'd quickly say my piece then run for the hills!!

The Phase kits that I import from Germany have been tried, tested and taken to the extreme. I have around 25 cars with various phase kits on them (ranging from phase 1 to 3) and not one of them has had a blown engine at all. As proved at Star Performance, there was a certain Cally Turbo that produced 305BHP and that car has done over 140,000 miles!!

These kits work.

BTW, whoever said that someone chipped a turbo car and gained 10BHP without raising the boost must be crazy. What's the point in chipping a turbocharged car if boost levels are remained at factory settings?? Money down the spout if you ask me.

If any subaru guys want to have a look at the phase kit info it is located at http://www.wallaceperformance.co.uk/cav_cal_power_upgrades.htm

The figures that are quoted are genuine!

Gavin

firefox

I had a Cav Turbo that ran 300+

I sorted the injectors, ECU, pistons, turbo, intercooler, clutch.

Fantastic car for straight lines.... and cruising...except for the door seals would whistle over 140

Admittedly I didnt play with the suspension... so it felt cumbersome and not ideal for country lanes... never the less a fantastic car.

J.

Richie1

Aye, the standard ride is pretty poor but the correct suspension setup can transform these cars.

I plan on going up to Knockhill on one of theor Top Marques nights with a few from the Scottish board who are quite keen on finding out what it can do and are going there WITH AN OPEN MIND unlike a few here who comment but dont know the full story