Turbo2

When I was teenager, we used to laugh at huge old Volvo Estates like this one:



We used to wonder what it must be like to drive such a collosally heavy solid steel Swedish "tank".

However, just as I have piled on a few pounds during the last 20-odd years, we all know that so have our new cars. Unbelievably, a baby BMW 135 like this one weighs 10% more (and even the smaller-engined 123d weighs 5% more) than the mammoth Volvo.



This is no criticism of this fine BMW, as pretty much all such cars are so afflicted these days. But it just goes to show how progress has increased the weight of what we drive. Can you imagine NOT having power-steering these days? It used to be just for big luxury cars, but is now essential for nearly all of today's cars.

Matteeboy

BMWs (and Audis) are surprisingly heavy. Never seems to be mentioned in reviews though.

MattW

1980 Volvo 240 = 1440
Taken from here 1980 Volvo 240 Turbo technical specifications and data - 5 door 2.1 litre (2127 cc) S4 155.1 PS - Carfolio.com car specifications pages

Audi 2.0 Petrol A4 Avant = 1495
Taken from the brochure on my desk

Not a lot in it really and i bet the modern car is bigger.

The diesel is much heavier of course, hence why the 135 is so heavy.

Matteeboy

But the 135i is a petrol car...

And as for diesels being much heavier...

335d Touring - 1720kg
335i Touring - 1705kg.

So a small bag heavier...

ScooByer Trade

Here is a perfect example a 1990 80 series TD VX Landcruiser is roughly 2.5 tonnes (whether with full fuel tank or dry weight i don't know holds 20 gal), the replacement 100 series is a full 500kgs more.Obviously the replacement grew in size vastly.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Audi A5 Diesel 3.0 TDI Cab weighs in at just over 2 tonnes, that is ridiculous.

ScooByer Trade

Yeah that is rediculous, it's fine if you want to pose in your drop top but not so great when you try to move a huge lump of lead.

ScooByer Trade

Lotus or Chapman got the miniscule weight and enough bhp off to a fine art especially with the Lotus 7 and Elite.What was the weight of the Elite roughly 700kgs ? it only had 90bhp but was enough and handled brilliantly ( for a car from that era i guess ).

ScooByer Trade

I guess most of these cars are for the American market.

Fabioso

One of the reasons why cars are heavier these days is due to the amount of safety features and airbags which are incorporated into the interiors of today's motors.

In a crash I suspect you would sacrifice the weight to keep your right foot intact and not end up with the radio console in your lap (rather than on your lap.....)

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Nah, two tonnes for medium cab to me says it has just bloated and Audi are letting it happen, they can do light, look at the A8 and A2 but they dont need to, people buy Cabriolet Audi's to pose in and they can get away with massive weight, would imagine there is a load of superflous crap on it though, bet that is a sporty drive, a 2 tonne diesel cabrio, sporty like a transit is.

ScooByer Trade

The e36 328 cab didn't weigh anywhere near 2 tonnes ( one of the best posing cars around ) and sound quite nice, but i don't know how safe they are compared to more modern cars now.

Fabioso

Cars in general are defintely safer now (well they generally get more NCAP stars than before....I can't be sure what that really means though tbh..........)

Although I remember seeing a Top Gear episode that brought home the reality pretty well...........when looking at the older models crashed under test conditions and the positions of the pedals and consoles etc..........still wouldn't make me want to buy a Renault Megane though........

MattW

No it doesn't, they weigh 1860 Kgs, the lightest (2.0 Petrol) weighs 1630.

Edited to say, I think you are referring to the gross weight limit.

Matteeboy

330d cab (E93) is 1780kgs - so not much difference really. Cabs are damn heavy!

Matteeboy

A few cars I consider to be heavily overweight for what they do:

Nissan GT-R
Nissan 350/370Z
Alfa Brera 3.2 4WD - around 1800kgs!!

dunx

iTrader: (3)

But this all ignores the fact that in general power-to-weight wise modern cars are way ahead.

My Hillman Imp had 110 bhp and weighed around 850 kg with me in it.

My Scoob has nearly four times the power but "only" weighs about double....

dunx

Matteeboy

Even with 1000bhp, a 2 tonne car is still a 2 tonne car.

I've often seen the power advantage of some cars reduced to zilch on a decent twisty road because the pokey car weighs so much more.

Turbo2

I think you're talking about heavily modified machines here! I don't know of any Imps that had 110bhp or Subarus that had 400-odd bhp straight out of the factory.

A better comparison would be something like the current Peugeot 207Gti. It has 175bhp for its 1315kg against 126bhp for the 875kg of a 1980's 1.9 205GTi. That's 133 bhp/tonne against 144 bhp/tonne for the old stager. Both have pretty similar straightline performance figures, but I bet the lightweight 23 year old would give the portly 207 a run for its money on the twisties.

Matteeboy

Similar story with the Golf GTi - except the current one is good (after a couple of cr4p eras) unlike the 207...

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I had a Brera Cab getting cheeky behind me, road opens out to two lanes, he goes to overtake and gets murdered by a Saab, dont know what engine it was but it was dog slow, was making a racket, suspect it was a Petrol.

Current Galaxy is about 1800 kilos, a Discovery is a tonne heavier to do, what is for most, the same job, carting up to seven people about with luggage.

Our Volvo 850 T5 was 1400 kilos, funny how people still have this daft perception that Volvo's are made from Granite and Girders and weight more than a medium sized planet, nowadays nothing is that light, very few cars are under a tonne, might be why my lightly tuned (bolt ons) Golf GTI eight valve used to do quite well despite only having 120 bhp, Audi TT 180's were no quicker due to being lardy.

Our Fiat 500 weighs 500 kilos, or it did when it was new, its done some italian style weight loss over the years.

The Chief

You can offset weight by having a massive power hike (MK5 Golf GTI)

But ......as we know weight effects everything, not just acceleration, stopping and handling is improved massively.

I drove a VX220 of my mates a quite a few times and I owned a Scooby a while back and made a comparison and whilst the Scoob was no heavyweight itself the VX was a revelation compared to the Scoob - ok it wasn't as fast but the sheer joy factor of the VX because it stopped better and certainly handled miles better opened my eyes towards lightweight cars.

Ok i know this was designed as a sportscar from the get go but even cars like the iconic 205 GTi and the 106 Rallye offer these lightweight thrills, people wonder what all the fuss is about until you drive cars like these.

NotoriousREV

I remember once having an argument with Mycroft around his assertion that if you had 2 cars that had the same power to weight ratio, the heavier car would still be faster round a track, but only if the tyre size also went up in proportion. I can't remember what the whole theory was but he was adamant.

Matteeboy

Jacko - 1400 for an 850 T5? That's amazingly light!

My Saxo VTR was only 90bhp but weighed naff all - the handling was superb.