scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

Opinions please as an alternative to the Scoob.

I am thinking about getting something that is a bit less fragile once I have sorted my V4 Sti but still has that something about it, if you know what I mean?

It must handle the ring, not bothered about fuel and I want it to be fast as

330dan

VANOS problems???? i have heard about - other than that gotta be one of the best cars out there - seen a good video on youtube of an impreza trying to get past a white one on the ring - very impresive.

HankScorpio

Never owned one so can't really comment (but it's not going to stop me!)
I'm a fan of the idea and I only worry about how they are day to day, chugging through town or nipping out for a pint of milk.
And they're obviously quite big but do they drive big?

Would be interested in owners thoughts from those points of view.

Mark1983

iTrader: (2)

The VANOS problem doesn't creep up on you. As long as it's well maintained and not abusing it from cold you should be ok.

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

A guy i knew had one a few years ago, I did go out in it as a passenger but didn't take much notice as I didn't think i'd ever be in the market for one..

I have heard about the VANOS issues, thought these were more M3 biased though?
AS has been said, they seem to be big cars and as such can't be as lithe and nimble as a little old scoob lol, but they are supposed to be very capable and accomplished at getting jiggy with it when you want to press on.
It looks to be one of those complete cars, quality build, strongish residuals (now anyway) fast as you would ever need it to be and comfortable.
I want a car to give me the excitement of the scoob but be a better place to be at the same time while your doing it if you see what i mean.

Some owner comments would be appreciated as well, Tuning???? you must be able to i would have thought, should improve an already good car without too much difficulty

Hoppy

The biggest bit is the running costs. As for driving big, I think that depends on who's doing it.

The Ring Taxi is an M5, tricked up with suspension and other minor tweaks I think, but basically an M5. We were there a couple of years ago, absolutely pi55ing down, and with my lad doing the steering we literally flew past everything - 911s, Ferraris, everything, thanks to 4wd and a good pilot

Then the Ring Taxi came by, four-up I think. It didn't blitz us (320-ish bhp 2.5l Scoob) and we just about held it on the brakes and turns, but when it got on the gas it was just a disappearing ball of spray. It was sliding plenty, looked spectacular, and majorly quick. Sounded rubbish of course

You can't deny that kind of performance. Just another level, frankly. It's obviously a very capable car indeed, but I was even more impressed by the driver. Never did get to see if it was 'her' or not

Richard.

Hoppy

Really, I wouldn't. It already has a problem with 500bhp at the front and 2WD at the back. But you can be quite certain that some German loons will have ripped even more power out of it, and will rip your wallet apart for the pleasure. If an M5 is not quick enough for you, then maybe an RS6?

There's a few posts on here about a super-charged RS4 which comes very close to my absolute dream motor but it's silly money when there's the 997 turbo ready to roll.

Richard.

jespin

He's talking abou the E39 not the E60 so 400 bhp instead of 500 bhp. Not many seem to make their quoted figures either. Not much tuning potential short of supercharging as they're quite highly tuned in standard spec.

Hoppy

Oh sorry. Yes of course. There's been a good debate on this (RS4 thread) from which I've concluded that if you want STi performance in a more 'sophisticated' package then you have to double the budget. Simple as.

A mildly tweaked Scoob is an unbeatable package for the money. I've just tried to beat it, and ended up with an Audi S4. It's a wonderful car in every way that my Scoob isn't, and it's also fast. But it's not Scooby fast. No sir!

Richard.

Simon K

Hi,

M5, E39 shape, have issues with the MAF's, rear diffs and serious oil usage on older engines. I think they have to use specfic oil only.

At the end of the day, they were £50K sports cars, so although valued at £8K for a half decent one, they still are exspensive cars to run. If you find a good one, its well worth it. SO, its besto buy one thats top of your budget.

I like them. M5 E39, in estril blue, sand leather, quality !

Go check the bmw forums.

SBK

Mikee

Maddisonmonkey sold his to get his spec c, was an awesome car. A guy from scoobynet bought it ('edcase' I think), shortly after buying it had the engine replaced under the BMW extended warranty... not cheap but was fully covered... the issues were caused by faulty VANOS system by all accounts. It was very quick when monkey had it, but once ed had fixed it i guess it must have been ballistic!!!

A lot of car for the money, yes they are expensive to run but you reap what you sow...you can get a scoobystyle grin on your face real quick, and rear wheel drive makes for some great fun!

Great spec, all the toys, a big cruiser when driven nicely and able to eat up most other things on the road when needed.

mozzaITA

Hey i too was looking to replace my sti type r for a m5 but reading up on them i was put off with the whole vanos thing and am looking to get a C32 AMG which are slightly more and are similar performance wise, 349bhp v 400bhp.

Need to drive one first i guess

SPEN555

It is a V8 which gives a lot of fun factor

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

I like idea of a V8, they sound wicked at full chat - especially if said V8 has a Miltek/Supersprint/Tubi exhaust fitted

Dracoro

These will NOT be cheap to run.

And forget selling one if you end up with an expensive problem. Many cars you just reduce the price to sell if it has a problem but as with many big performance cars people will steer clear as the cost to fix will be FAR more than the savings in the asking price.

Look for one that has had a lot of recent suspension work (as it will probably need it and it WILL cost LOTS), preferably owned by same owner for a while who was happy to pay lots in maintenance. These type of owners become rarer as the cars get cheaper. you do NOT want a bad example, it will be a money pit.

That said, as long as you can afford £2/3k a year maintenance (it may not cost that of course but must allow for it, even good ones may cost money) then great cars, just go into it with eyes wide open.

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

Tbh, a Subaru is NOT cheap to run either, but I can imagine that servicing and parts for a big M series BM will not be cheap either way, suspension seems to be as affordable as decent scoob stuff so that's acceptable considering what it would be fitted to, and i see what you mean about them being money pits as well but I am looking in the 15k region so hopefully there haven't been too many that have not been cared for at those prices, full history is going to be essential i think in this instance

StickyMicky

had a run against one of them 400bhp ones and it was not what i consider fast........

although it was chucking out a bit of blackish smoke from the back end, so maybe it was not running quite right?

regardless, the chap pulled over and let me through with a wave

bloody beemer drivers holding me up

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Totally amazing cars. Absolutely love everything about mine. They do everything pretty well or better. Speed, handling, comfort, quality, reliability, build quality, everything about them is better than 90% of cars out there. The power is excellent and so usable you don't have top bother with the gearbox if your feeling lazy, with over 200ftlb of torque from idle rising to around 370ftlb from 2000pm to the limiter, she will pull from 10mph to 186mph in 5th gear.

As for daily driving, again, it excels, the big V8 heats up fast and you can potter to the shops with no drama and she will sit outside looking subdued to all but those who know what she is. They don't feel anything like as big as they are once you get the hang of them, and you can easily push the limits more each week. It may be a few weeks before you disable the incredibly competent DSC though, shes a heavy girl at the back so needs your wits about you to push hard in the rain with DSC off. With it on, your grandma couldn't lose it, honestly, the computer would almost forbid it. lol

The quality you are buying and driving is what swings it for me. They drive better at 200,000 miles than any Ford, Subaru or Mitsubishi Lancer does when NEW. And so they should, don't forget, fully loaded, these cars were £65000 only 6-7 years ago!

Toy lovers will be at home as the list of toys is massive on an M5. lets see, here is my spec. (In the order i can think of them...):
Do any other features actually exist?


Some light viewing for you...
YouTube - Top Gear

YouTube - E39 M5 "Star" Madonna Guy Ritchie BMW Films


Ive owned a lot of good cars, and ive driven more fast and high quality cars than most, and the E39 M5 is the best daily driver i have ever owned. These are pre stupid road tax increase too.


Problems?
They don't have anything you would call common problems, they are massively over engineered.

Bushes take a hammering. Buy powerflex, fit and forget.

Ensure vanos rattle on startup goes silent after no more than 2.5 seconds.

Have someone scan the ECU for fault codes, it has a very serious management system and nothing gets passed it.

camshaft sensors are quite common, they last years but go unnoticed as the engine runs well without them.

MAF's fail or get contaminated. easy to test from the display on the dash if you know how.

Good test of the vanos system sensors.
Drive in 2nd. 2500rpm. Nail it. Should pull quite progressively to 4k, then pull harder round to the limiter.

Drive in 2nd. 4000rpm. Nail it. Should shove you back in your seat like a turbocharged car and pull progressively to the limiter.

Servicing costs:
Well, the late ones, (Which you SHOULD buy) don't use oil, so change every 6000 ish ideally. Everything else is standard 5 series really, so cheap to run if you can afford the fuel costs. Nothing really to wear out as per any modern 5 series.

A few pics of mine...











Inside the sump pan after 105000 miles.

HankScorpio

Nice write up!

M5 goes on list, really close to the top....

thejimreaper

My best mate has an E39 M5, and he loves it to bits. It is pretty much a match for my STI 0-60, but it pulls away over 100. We took them to the Ring last April and it was awesome. Some photos to pursuade you -















By the way, he has had it for a year and a half and had no major problems at all (touch wood). Gets the same MPG as my STi as well. Good deals to be had at the mo to.

Happy hunting

Jim

v8voodoo

*runs to look at classifieds*

StickyMicky

how much are they going for nowadays?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

^^^ +1

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

start at 8k

Stu, thanks for that comprehensive write up, loads of imformation there and I think it has made my mind up for me as well.
The Scoob can go next year (I am still building the engine so want at least 5k miles of fun out of it first ) and I am going to get me an E39 M5

Semper

I want one now!

scoobysmiff

iTrader: (2)

so do I

RAJ27

I used to own a E39 530i sport, which was a very good car..but the M5 is a total league of it's own.......

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Your very welcome.
If your ever local to my work I will happily run you out in one.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Was / is one on P/Heads for £7.5k! Amazing bhp / value for money at the mo.

Great M5 video btw Stu, I've not seen it before

TX.

Skoobie Dhu

iTrader: (3)

Stu, if they're that good why have you had the sump off @ 105k miles